He can, but he still has to be somewhat close to a monster to be able to hit it.
It doesn't? Guess i learned something new today.
99 theorycrafting and stuff like that
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He can, but he still has to be somewhat close to a monster to be able to hit it.
It doesn't? Guess i learned something new today.
Act 2 mercs are always range 3, regardless of weapon in use. Poison cloud physical damage scales with players as well, IIRC almost 50% more damage at /players8 and with the normal 5% chance for critical hit as well. Good luck negating it with iDR on a merc, and it's impossible on a golem. Safest bet is probably to just tele in, bone prison self, then whack away at nihl with BS and RIP. However, I haven't tested this, so if the poison clouds can hit the bone prison, then it gets more dangerous.
W/o might/fanat viper clouds do 60-80 physical dmg in hell on p8. I figure if a large fraction of that can be removed with iDR or just flat DR% then the merc + golem won't die that easily with BO and timely teleporting if needed. Especially if the dmg is divided evenly between merc = char + golem.
I couldn't find confirmation whether or not the clouds can do critical hits or not. Basin doesn't mention it at all other than Nihl's CE not receiving any crit chance
I couldn't find confirmation whether or not the clouds can do critical hits or not. Basin doesn't mention it at all other than Nihl's CE not receiving any crit chance
Onderduiker made a post on this somewhere either here or in the stats forum. The cloud can definetly crit (it applies damage from a melee attack) and the damage scales with players setting. the 60-80 would be 90-120ish at best in a full game, then there's might and critical hits, amp and fanat to take into account on occation. Just be careful either way. You won't get your corpse back very easily if you die to a worst case scenario down there....
Summoner doing baalruns to 98 is faster provided you have the merc equipment and perhaps beast.
Nihlathak's CE caps at near 2500 damage from what I remember on a spider corpse with amplify damage. AB has the info on this. If you're going to be risking getting CE'd you definately want to stack your fire res to max under his conviction.
Dim Vision = Vipers not shooting any poison unless you're right next to them afaik. Dim Vision is also the way to go with Sirens/Archers when Nihlathak has fanaticism.
As long as you can tank the highest possible CE damage (if there's a risk of a CE happening in your approach.) there's no good reason to not get block.
I would think a White-wand setup emphasizing high damage could easily work with proper Dim Vision usage and a tame merc.
Get to 98 first then worry about it
Nihlathak's CE caps at near 2500 damage from what I remember on a spider corpse with amplify damage. AB has the info on this. If you're going to be risking getting CE'd you definately want to stack your fire res to max under his conviction.
Dim Vision = Vipers not shooting any poison unless you're right next to them afaik. Dim Vision is also the way to go with Sirens/Archers when Nihlathak has fanaticism.
As long as you can tank the highest possible CE damage (if there's a risk of a CE happening in your approach.) there's no good reason to not get block.
I would think a White-wand setup emphasizing high damage could easily work with proper Dim Vision usage and a tame merc.
Get to 98 first then worry about it
He's talking about HC, so if he has a corpse he'll never get it back worst case or not.
logoutzero
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I would think a White-wand setup emphasizing high damage could easily work[SUP]1[/SUP] with proper Dim Vision usage and a tame merc.
Get to 98 first[SUP]2[/SUP] then worry about it
1. With his proposed kit, that's not going to happen. HotO/Wizzy are his primary source of resistances.
2. +1
60-80 is the dmg/frame for the physical component at p8
Dim vision sounds like a great idea for that fact. Someone said ghosts will fly over bone wall/prisons.. but normally dim vision will negate movement of most enemies unless they're really near, right? Even if I'm firing at nihl?Summoner doing baalruns to 98 is faster provided you have the merc equipment and perhaps beast.
Nihlathak's CE caps at near 2500 damage from what I remember on a spider corpse with amplify damage. AB has the info on this. If you're going to be risking getting CE'd you definately want to stack your fire res to max under his conviction.
Dim Vision = Vipers not shooting any poison unless you're right next to them afaik. Dim Vision is also the way to go with Sirens/Archers when Nihlathak has fanaticism.
As long as you can tank the highest possible CE damage (if there's a risk of a CE happening in your approach.) there's no good reason to not get block.
I would think a White-wand setup emphasizing high damage could easily work with proper Dim Vision usage and a tame merc.
Get to 98 first then worry about it
I ran some numbers the other day and CE isn't too scary with 50% DR and 80 fire res at it's worst, which is why I'm still considering CE approach to killing nihl faster.
Is it plausible for those who have run Nihl in the past to get a map with little to no monster density against one of the walls in his chamber? I feel like focusing on that may be more important than shrines if it's plausible, since it would remove most threats
Can Nihl be slowed by holy freeze, anyone?
onderduiker
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The Amazon Basin Diablo II wiki's Betrayal of Harrogath page contains detailed information on Tomb Vipers and Nihlathak's corpse explosions.
At /players 8 in Single Player Hell Nihlathak has 120,104 life and Magic Resist 25%, so magic damage will normally be reduced to 75%. Mana Burn is selected on 1/6 runs, in which case MR 45% reduces magic damage to 55%.
The Halls of Vaught is level 84 in Hell, but no random Champion or Unique monsters spawn there and you'll encounter none while running Nihlathak.
Unfortunately physical damage of Tomb Vipers will still apply.
Desert Mercenaries always have range 3-5 when attacking size 1-3 targets; only players benefit from a weapon's rangeadder.
Tomb Viper javelins do not pierce Bone Wall or Bone Prison, so as long as you aren't colliding with a pre-existing cloud when you summon one next to you, you should be safe.
Almost all monsters have 5% chance of a critical hit doubling damage of all six types from any source. Off the top of my head, the only notable exceptions are Nihlathak's corpse explosion and Hydra summoned by Council Members.
If a monster is blinded before it starts moving, it won't intentionally move towards you but it might still wander slightly. If a monster is blinded while moving, it will continue to move towards its destination but once it's arrived or been obstructed it will stop; if it's aware of you at this point it will attack you, but this seems to be limited to its A1 attack.
If a Tomb Viper is blinded but you're within melee range, all it seems to do is fire its javelins at you. Unfortunately this is a Tomb Viper's A1 attack.
Yes, although he only has -33 chill effectiveness in Hell so the effect of Holy Freeze is restricted to -33% attack and walk/run speed. The same applies to cold length, although if both are applied the combined effect is -66% attack and walk/run speed (but the chance of eligible targets shattering upon death rather than leaving a corpse remains 20%).
At /players 8 in Single Player Hell Nihlathak has 120,104 life and Magic Resist 25%, so magic damage will normally be reduced to 75%. Mana Burn is selected on 1/6 runs, in which case MR 45% reduces magic damage to 55%.
The Halls of Vaught is level 84 in Hell, but no random Champion or Unique monsters spawn there and you'll encounter none while running Nihlathak.
Unfortunately physical damage of Tomb Vipers will still apply.
Desert Mercenaries always have range 3-5 when attacking size 1-3 targets; only players benefit from a weapon's rangeadder.
Tomb Viper javelins do not pierce Bone Wall or Bone Prison, so as long as you aren't colliding with a pre-existing cloud when you summon one next to you, you should be safe.
Almost all monsters have 5% chance of a critical hit doubling damage of all six types from any source. Off the top of my head, the only notable exceptions are Nihlathak's corpse explosion and Hydra summoned by Council Members.
If a monster is blinded before it starts moving, it won't intentionally move towards you but it might still wander slightly. If a monster is blinded while moving, it will continue to move towards its destination but once it's arrived or been obstructed it will stop; if it's aware of you at this point it will attack you, but this seems to be limited to its A1 attack.
If a Tomb Viper is blinded but you're within melee range, all it seems to do is fire its javelins at you. Unfortunately this is a Tomb Viper's A1 attack.
Yes, although he only has -33 chill effectiveness in Hell so the effect of Holy Freeze is restricted to -33% attack and walk/run speed. The same applies to cold length, although if both are applied the combined effect is -66% attack and walk/run speed (but the chance of eligible targets shattering upon death rather than leaving a corpse remains 20%).
Thanks for all the answers.
Do you know if having more units in a viper cloud will reduce the amount of damage I take, or have no effect?
For example a merc, myself and an IG. Does this change if one of the minions or the merc is moving?
I know for merc + necro the necro will take dmg every frame, but i'm trying to determine if it is beneficial, not, or irrelevant to include an IG in my arsenal
edit: My question arises partially because of the necromage example on the AB link you provided.
Do you know if having more units in a viper cloud will reduce the amount of damage I take, or have no effect?
For example a merc, myself and an IG. Does this change if one of the minions or the merc is moving?
I know for merc + necro the necro will take dmg every frame, but i'm trying to determine if it is beneficial, not, or irrelevant to include an IG in my arsenal
edit: My question arises partially because of the necromage example on the AB link you provided.
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onderduiker
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If a mercenary and Iron Golem are colliding with the same cloud as you, then it will collide alternately with each of them and never collide with you until one of them dies or moves away. The clouds are size 2 (a cross of five sub-tiles) so there's a little leeway in terms of movement, but if the mercenary and Iron Golem move it's likely that one or both of them will no longer be colliding with the same cloud as you: if one remains then the collisions will alternate between you, if neither remains then you remain the cloud's last target and it won't collide with you again.
To answer the remaining questions posed in your PM:
You will block 75% of cloud collisions due to their physical damage. Poison damage applied by collisions which aren't blocked will still be applied for every frame of its length (blocking simply prevents poison length being reset and a frame of additional poison damage being applied upon collision). However, blocking interrupts and prevents casting, and if Last Collide is being overridden then you'll potentially be blocking at least every other frame (and potentially every single frame if multiple clouds are involved).
Since 1.13 a Necromancer's Corpse Explosion has applied damage based on 70-120% of a corpse's normal average base life. Ice Spawn have 6,067-7,583 base life in Single Player Hell, averaging 6,825. Thus CE damage is 4,777.5-8,190, averaging 6,483.75 (~3,242 physical and ~3,242 fire). This will be modified by clvl/mlvl if clvl < mlvl, but Nihlathak is level 95 so this only applies to level < 95 Necromancers.
Nihlathak has Damage Resist 0% and Fire Resist 33% in Hell before Unique bonuses, so he can never become Immune to Physical and casting Amplify Damage almost always results in most damage: Stone Skin will be selected on 1/6 runs, so when AD is cast ~4,863 physical damage will be applied; otherwise, when AD is cast ~6,484 physical damage is applied. So physical damage alone is greater than 4,000 magic damage, even if that's after Magic Resist 25%.
To answer the remaining questions posed in your PM:
pharpis said:
You will block 75% of cloud collisions due to their physical damage. Poison damage applied by collisions which aren't blocked will still be applied for every frame of its length (blocking simply prevents poison length being reset and a frame of additional poison damage being applied upon collision). However, blocking interrupts and prevents casting, and if Last Collide is being overridden then you'll potentially be blocking at least every other frame (and potentially every single frame if multiple clouds are involved).
pharpis said:
Since 1.13 a Necromancer's Corpse Explosion has applied damage based on 70-120% of a corpse's normal average base life. Ice Spawn have 6,067-7,583 base life in Single Player Hell, averaging 6,825. Thus CE damage is 4,777.5-8,190, averaging 6,483.75 (~3,242 physical and ~3,242 fire). This will be modified by clvl/mlvl if clvl < mlvl, but Nihlathak is level 95 so this only applies to level < 95 Necromancers.
Nihlathak has Damage Resist 0% and Fire Resist 33% in Hell before Unique bonuses, so he can never become Immune to Physical and casting Amplify Damage almost always results in most damage: Stone Skin will be selected on 1/6 runs, so when AD is cast ~4,863 physical damage will be applied; otherwise, when AD is cast ~6,484 physical damage is applied. So physical damage alone is greater than 4,000 magic damage, even if that's after Magic Resist 25%.
Thanks for all the help. Looks like I need to get to 98 and then practice
I'm glad having a merc and golem will more often than not result in me taking 0 damage in a cloud. That's awesome news.
If I chose to summon multiple minions, it would work for all of these minions, right? Where as long as two of them are in the same cloud as me and living then I won't be taking dmg...
Now I feel like I need to figure out an easy way to get 2 necromages into my runs, but I'm not sure it's worth reducing the run times
I'm glad having a merc and golem will more often than not result in me taking 0 damage in a cloud. That's awesome news.
If I chose to summon multiple minions, it would work for all of these minions, right? Where as long as two of them are in the same cloud as me and living then I won't be taking dmg...
Now I feel like I need to figure out an easy way to get 2 necromages into my runs, but I'm not sure it's worth reducing the run times
logoutzero
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Well, it's still going to add a significant amount of seconds to each run, but there are dead monsters just outside the gates of Horrogath, in-case you forgot...
onderduiker
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Necromages have a tendency to fan out even if there are targets within range, so there's no real advantage to summoning them specifically.
logoutzero
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Don't they tend to stay stacked with teleport? I know I've seen "Lord of Mages" build videos where there's basically a stream of missiles shooting out from under the necro. And melee skellies sometimes stay stacked as well. Maybe it requires a large revive?
onderduiker
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When a Necromancer teleports, his mercenary and all pets are stacked on top of him, but if he stops they'll start to fan out. However, they don't all do this at once, and the more pets he has the longer it takes for them all to fan out.
One more question about nihlathak for anyone who knows.
When he uses CE, does he choose a corpse randomly? The corpse closest/furthest from him/target?
I ask because I'm curious if arach corpses can be avoided altogether by standing b/w those and many other corpses.
When he uses CE, does he choose a corpse randomly? The corpse closest/furthest from him/target?
I ask because I'm curious if arach corpses can be avoided altogether by standing b/w those and many other corpses.
onderduiker
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Based on observation, Nihlathak won't explode a corpse unless there's a target within its radius, and when there's only one type of corpse he selects the one closest to that target. Unfortunately, when there are multiple types of corpses he selects that which would apply the most damage: he consistently exploded Arach corpses even when my character was standing right beside (and even on top of) Ice Spawn corpses, regardless of the order in which they were killed.
Damn, that's somewhat scary. Still, I've been focusing on arach corpses when they drop. There's a lot to keep track of in these runs, but the closest calls I've had were when landing on a poison cloud and losing most of my life or messing up casting BO and only going in with 1300 life.
woop double post.
Ok, I've made some changes on the ideal setup for this character (nihl necromacner).
I still want as much DR/life as possible ofc, and 80% FRes, possibly with 40% sorb with 1.07 LoH, too. 75 fcr setup can all be achieved with a lot of + skills. So very little needs to be changed about the gear listed.
However, I think the skill layout needs to retooling.
I first took some points from LRes to boost my golem mastery so I have a insight tank with half-decent survival rates. This has turned out well. Now, I'm thinking I should take all but amp dmg and maybe an extra AI curse out, as well as all but 1 hard point from poison explosion, and reroute those points to bone prison/wall as a bone armor synergy. (I'm back to nova, bone spear/spirit was too slow to my tastes)
I should still have 3-4K nova dmg, too
With my ~18 PnB skills this will give ~600 or 700 BA, which is fantastic. This will completely negate all but the nastiest of CEs from nihl, and make surprise viper cloud attacks much less threatening.
I've also realized that I can easily recast BA during my CE rampage against nihl to good affect, and this will reduce my issues with nihl runs solely to vipers and poor teleports or risk of merc/golem dying.
So I'd say this is a pretty good setup
When i can get my hand on 1.07 shako, wizzeh, vamp gaze (merc) and LoH this will work wonders.
I'm aware the fire absorb will reduce the explosion dmg by only a few hundred under the worst conditions with my 80% FRes, but I figure this helps reduce surprise drops in life and counteract standing in a conviction aura (which will easily go unnoticed because my merc wears infinity).
I've got another question I think I know the answer to:
What type of dmg are the blood star things the succubi shoot? I think it's magic but I'm not certain.
If my merc is using vamp gaze and infinity and needs to get me just 1-2 corpses, what would the best armor be and sockets? I'm not sure how much ias would help for a infinity thresher. Should I use any ias? Devote both sockets to ias?
I think eth gladiator's bane might be my best bet for the merc, since it will reduce both the viper cloud dmg and blood stars, and provide CBF.
Thoughts?
I can stream a bunch of runs if people are interested in what it's like and need to see it themselves. I'm getting the hang of it but until my setup is complete there are a few frightening things to worry about
ATM runs vary b/w 30-50 sec depending on vipers and needing to pick up items, mostly.
Ok, I've made some changes on the ideal setup for this character (nihl necromacner).
I still want as much DR/life as possible ofc, and 80% FRes, possibly with 40% sorb with 1.07 LoH, too. 75 fcr setup can all be achieved with a lot of + skills. So very little needs to be changed about the gear listed.
However, I think the skill layout needs to retooling.
I first took some points from LRes to boost my golem mastery so I have a insight tank with half-decent survival rates. This has turned out well. Now, I'm thinking I should take all but amp dmg and maybe an extra AI curse out, as well as all but 1 hard point from poison explosion, and reroute those points to bone prison/wall as a bone armor synergy. (I'm back to nova, bone spear/spirit was too slow to my tastes)
I should still have 3-4K nova dmg, too
With my ~18 PnB skills this will give ~600 or 700 BA, which is fantastic. This will completely negate all but the nastiest of CEs from nihl, and make surprise viper cloud attacks much less threatening.
I've also realized that I can easily recast BA during my CE rampage against nihl to good affect, and this will reduce my issues with nihl runs solely to vipers and poor teleports or risk of merc/golem dying.
So I'd say this is a pretty good setup
When i can get my hand on 1.07 shako, wizzeh, vamp gaze (merc) and LoH this will work wonders.
I'm aware the fire absorb will reduce the explosion dmg by only a few hundred under the worst conditions with my 80% FRes, but I figure this helps reduce surprise drops in life and counteract standing in a conviction aura (which will easily go unnoticed because my merc wears infinity).
I've got another question I think I know the answer to:
What type of dmg are the blood star things the succubi shoot? I think it's magic but I'm not certain.
If my merc is using vamp gaze and infinity and needs to get me just 1-2 corpses, what would the best armor be and sockets? I'm not sure how much ias would help for a infinity thresher. Should I use any ias? Devote both sockets to ias?
I think eth gladiator's bane might be my best bet for the merc, since it will reduce both the viper cloud dmg and blood stars, and provide CBF.
Thoughts?
I can stream a bunch of runs if people are interested in what it's like and need to see it themselves. I'm getting the hang of it but until my setup is complete there are a few frightening things to worry about
ATM runs vary b/w 30-50 sec depending on vipers and needing to pick up items, mostly.
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