99 theorycrafting and stuff like that
- Thread starter zgpmf
- Start date
The trouble is, one slightly wrong placement and I'm in a world of trouble (haven't yet got the Ko to up my Vipermagi). Hopefully should get that soon and we'll see.
I've re-equipped him into an MFer, so trying that approach for a bit. He's only clvl88 at the moment, so only a short time* till he's a 99'er.
*from a geology point of view.
I've re-equipped him into an MFer, so trying that approach for a bit. He's only clvl88 at the moment, so only a short time* till he's a 99'er.
*from a geology point of view.
Well, I've been thinking a bit tonight about running Nihl to 99 with a Necromancer (I don't think there's a better choice...)
I need some help with opinions. I don't remember much discussion going on about necros aside from suggesting pits to 97/98 and then nihl for 99.
Would the nihl build be a bonemancer? This sounds like the best thing to me. Iirc a bonemancer should be able to get ~4K dmg without much trouble... However, i play in HC so even slightly more important to not die for a 99er project.
I think by the end of the winter MFO, assuming I put in some effort, I will be lvl 97. So I may want to start nihl at that point, but I'm not sure if it's faster than pits or not.
Anyway, I'm not in the position for testing, so if anyone has a high lvl necro and some spare time/thoughts could someone give me an outline of what would be the safest way to kill nihl as a necro a few thousand times? I think dim vision or confuse should do plenty for CC (which would be better - why?).
Atm I feel like if that's not enough I could also throw up a bone wall b/w myself and nihl's minions. Near the opening to his room is a good place for that, and nihl could probably still be reached. . .
How many bone spears would it take to kill nihl? Would spirits be better for this (namelock since he can tele)? spirits may also do more dmg but I can't remember.
Is nature's peace a requirement? It seems like it is, unless I can use spirits on nihl... Which raises me to another point;
If I can kill nihl and then a few minions and use CE to clear the room, that's a LOT of drops. What's the alvl? Any chance of Tyrael's? If not there is tons of potential for runes, at least. Would the experience be non-negligible at 98?
What kind of gear setup would be best? Max block for absolute safety or 100% vita? I suppose nature's peace helps at least a little with DR/MDR.
what about merc setup? I think holy freeze might be worth using but then again it wouldn't be completely reliable. IG can be used for an insight stick if necessary, but I can't think of anything other than the holy freeze stick that I'd put on the merc (doom?)
Thanks for any answers. I've still got lots of time to think about it and prepare.
I need some help with opinions. I don't remember much discussion going on about necros aside from suggesting pits to 97/98 and then nihl for 99.
Would the nihl build be a bonemancer? This sounds like the best thing to me. Iirc a bonemancer should be able to get ~4K dmg without much trouble... However, i play in HC so even slightly more important to not die for a 99er project.
I think by the end of the winter MFO, assuming I put in some effort, I will be lvl 97. So I may want to start nihl at that point, but I'm not sure if it's faster than pits or not.
Anyway, I'm not in the position for testing, so if anyone has a high lvl necro and some spare time/thoughts could someone give me an outline of what would be the safest way to kill nihl as a necro a few thousand times? I think dim vision or confuse should do plenty for CC (which would be better - why?).
Atm I feel like if that's not enough I could also throw up a bone wall b/w myself and nihl's minions. Near the opening to his room is a good place for that, and nihl could probably still be reached. . .
How many bone spears would it take to kill nihl? Would spirits be better for this (namelock since he can tele)? spirits may also do more dmg but I can't remember.
Is nature's peace a requirement? It seems like it is, unless I can use spirits on nihl... Which raises me to another point;
If I can kill nihl and then a few minions and use CE to clear the room, that's a LOT of drops. What's the alvl? Any chance of Tyrael's? If not there is tons of potential for runes, at least. Would the experience be non-negligible at 98?
What kind of gear setup would be best? Max block for absolute safety or 100% vita? I suppose nature's peace helps at least a little with DR/MDR.
what about merc setup? I think holy freeze might be worth using but then again it wouldn't be completely reliable. IG can be used for an insight stick if necessary, but I can't think of anything other than the holy freeze stick that I'd put on the merc (doom?)
Thanks for any answers. I've still got lots of time to think about it and prepare.
Nihl = bad for hardcore. Don't go there, really.
Furthermore, as a necromancer you'd want to use CE, but then N. can use CE too = even more dangerous.
By the way, Nature's peace won't help if stuff is killed by merc or minions.
IMO, stick to Baal runs.
Furthermore, as a necromancer you'd want to use CE, but then N. can use CE too = even more dangerous.
By the way, Nature's peace won't help if stuff is killed by merc or minions.
IMO, stick to Baal runs.
Baal is really slow and boring with a necro
I don't *need* CE if I'm focusing on just nihl, but i'm leaving it open as to whether or not I use Ce to clear the room after he's dead or if that's too risky.
Nihlathak from 98 to 99 with Necro could be doable. I just recorded a few runs with a Bonemancer:
Video #1: First Dim Vision, then Confuse for CC.
Video #2: Bone Prison spam instead of curses. A lot safer as it turns out.
Not using a merc means immunity to the poison clouds from vipers (unless you decide to run around in them for some reason). Kill speed could probably be improved by going without Nature's peace and switching to Amp/CE once a few minions have died.
Not all of the gear used might be available in HC (beta CtA especially), but the Bone Prison approach seems very safe and should be possible with less life/dr.
An average run time of about 40s seems possible. That's approximately equivalent to 2:25 Baal runs (factors here). Not great compared to <25s on my Barb, but still ok.
edit: Gear used for people who don't want to watch videos:
edit 2: Nihlathak is just as bad for TC87 uniques as Baal (or possibly worse). So don't expect any of those. A few runes are more realistic. Also copious "Baal charms".
Video #1: First Dim Vision, then Confuse for CC.
Video #2: Bone Prison spam instead of curses. A lot safer as it turns out.
Not using a merc means immunity to the poison clouds from vipers (unless you decide to run around in them for some reason). Kill speed could probably be improved by going without Nature's peace and switching to Amp/CE once a few minions have died.
Not all of the gear used might be available in HC (beta CtA especially), but the Bone Prison approach seems very safe and should be possible with less life/dr.
An average run time of about 40s seems possible. That's approximately equivalent to 2:25 Baal runs (factors here). Not great compared to <25s on my Barb, but still ok.
edit: Gear used for people who don't want to watch videos:
Code:
Enigma
CoA BerBer
Hoto
Spirit
Mara's
Trang gloves
Arach
Rare tri res boots
Nature's Peace
Fcr ring
Beta CtA/Spiritedit 2: Nihlathak is just as bad for TC87 uniques as Baal (or possibly worse). So don't expect any of those. A few runes are more realistic. Also copious "Baal charms".
Thanks a lot scrscw!
That's interesting. Would you be able to try some runs where you utilize 1-2 bone walls + 1 curse and see if that can be enough to keep safe? I feel as though cornering yourself should work with just 2 bone walls, but I'm not sure. If I wanted a merc for some auras, what gear would I put on it so it didn't die?
eth gladiator's with sol runes and other similiar things?
I definitely don't have even a usable CoA.
and based on your baal running equivalent I can confidently say I don't think a ero is going to be going much faster than that at baal, if that time is even possible. If it is, i'm sure they can kill nihl even faster
That's interesting. Would you be able to try some runs where you utilize 1-2 bone walls + 1 curse and see if that can be enough to keep safe? I feel as though cornering yourself should work with just 2 bone walls, but I'm not sure. If I wanted a merc for some auras, what gear would I put on it so it didn't die?
eth gladiator's with sol runes and other similiar things?
I definitely don't have even a usable CoA.
and based on your baal running equivalent I can confidently say I don't think a ero is going to be going much faster than that at baal, if that time is even possible. If it is, i'm sure they can kill nihl even faster
I don't see much of a difference between Bone Walls and Prisons. Just spamming a lot of them seems a lot safer than just placing a few + Confuse. Ghosts are pretty much the only annoying monsters because they just fly over them.
That CoA definitely isn't necessary. You could achieve similar results with a simple Stormshield.
I'm not sure if a merc would be worth it with this kind of build. Insight would be nice but not necessary and I can't think of any other aura that would make any difference. Having the merc do some tanking might be nice, I guess.
On the other hand, having a merc makes the Tomb Vipers a lot more dangerous. As far as I remember, the super high damage from the poison clouds only occurs when you either run through them or some weird bouncing between you and your merc happens.
edit:
Just to confirm a theory I had on the first page of this thread:
[youtube]gtw83ewkfFU[/youtube]
That CoA definitely isn't necessary. You could achieve similar results with a simple Stormshield.
I'm not sure if a merc would be worth it with this kind of build. Insight would be nice but not necessary and I can't think of any other aura that would make any difference. Having the merc do some tanking might be nice, I guess.
On the other hand, having a merc makes the Tomb Vipers a lot more dangerous. As far as I remember, the super high damage from the poison clouds only occurs when you either run through them or some weird bouncing between you and your merc happens.
edit:
Just to confirm a theory I had on the first page of this thread:
A smiter does really well without any thought put into his equipment...
[youtube]gtw83ewkfFU[/youtube]
Last edited:
wut, did you even hit him? That's crazy.
Nice inventory
Alright, maybe I'll think about a SS approach. Can anyone confirm bad things about vipers + mercs? I've never heard of anything like that
Nice inventory
Alright, maybe I'll think about a SS approach. Can anyone confirm bad things about vipers + mercs? I've never heard of anything like that
Confirmed. The nextdelay of the cloud doesn't allow it to hit someone standing still in the cloud as long as they're alone, but as soon as there is a minion around, nextdelay is somehow bypassed, and the cloud will attempt to hit every frame, alternating between the char and the merc.
Hmm, so if I load up on iDR gear for necro and merc I should be good? If I add an IG that's decked out in iDR armor of some kind would it then also be more or less invincible to the clouds but also make it alternate between 3 characters?
double post
More thoughts.
I'm really interested in trying a CE route, actually. I figure if I can trap his minions close to him with a combination of prison + confuse I should be able to stay out of CE radius but still apply dmg to nihl and the crowds around him, then chain CE. Is this too crazy?
Does nihl use CE if a merc or pet is in range, or only if the player is in range?
More thoughts.
I'm really interested in trying a CE route, actually. I figure if I can trap his minions close to him with a combination of prison + confuse I should be able to stay out of CE radius but still apply dmg to nihl and the crowds around him, then chain CE. Is this too crazy?
Does nihl use CE if a merc or pet is in range, or only if the player is in range?
logoutzero
Active member
- Nov 9, 2005
- 1,539
- 91
- 28
Does his CE scale? And how much base life do the monsters have about him? Would it be possible to just DR and Fire Absorb the CE stuff to a manageable level?
Ok, I've changed my mind yet again after some discussion with logout and I think going the non-RIP route simply isn't worth the extra dmg risk and sacrifices necessary to negate it.
So we've come up with a reasonable list for gear
enigma
shako (sol)
stormshield (eld?)
arach
trang gloves
hoto or wizzeh (rare jool with dex)
nature's peace
BK/SoJ/iDr res ring
safety craft ammy with necro skills and other good mods like dex/life
whatever res boots, or boots with life/dex like waterwalk.
and a normal CtA/spirit switch ofc
This gives 50% DR, max block w/ ~200 dex and should be well over 2k life, too. Charms can be life/res with my skiller set.
Another idea came up, though:
What if I outfit a merc with a very crappy dmg base 1.10s beta Crescent Moon (and iDR gear) and an IG with cheaper 1.13 CM, then after using bone prison I'll have merc eating hits frm nearby monsters, while also proc'ing static field on Nihl et al. The golem should occasionally also cast static, as well as being another tank that doesn't need to be casted every game. I can then use 1 pt lower res as my curse and most runs Nihl will have the first half of his life dropped a bit by merc/golem, and this should save ~1-7 sec based on scrcrw's kill speeds above.
Thoughts?
Anyone have um runes in HC for beta use and willing to put them in an awful weapon? Is this a crazy idea or no? I figure max DR% and some iDR should be enough to keep myself safe from merc/golem stepping in viper clouds, and they should have enough life (and iDR for merc) to survive these as well.
If I go for this approach which merc would be best for doing the least dmg OR hitting the fastest, OR providing the most useful aura?
Another thought occurred but can't test myself. Is IG immune to viper cloud dmg since it's immune to poison naturally? I know it's the physical damage that is the problem but I figure it might be possible the game won't damage a unit if it can't be hit by poison. Eh, shot in the dark.
I think that's all for now.
edit: Also ~800 bone armor is very nice for this. Been a long time since I've used more than ~200 bone armor.
So we've come up with a reasonable list for gear
enigma
shako (sol)
stormshield (eld?)
arach
trang gloves
hoto or wizzeh (rare jool with dex)
nature's peace
BK/SoJ/iDr res ring
safety craft ammy with necro skills and other good mods like dex/life
whatever res boots, or boots with life/dex like waterwalk.
and a normal CtA/spirit switch ofc
This gives 50% DR, max block w/ ~200 dex and should be well over 2k life, too. Charms can be life/res with my skiller set.
Another idea came up, though:
What if I outfit a merc with a very crappy dmg base 1.10s beta Crescent Moon (and iDR gear) and an IG with cheaper 1.13 CM, then after using bone prison I'll have merc eating hits frm nearby monsters, while also proc'ing static field on Nihl et al. The golem should occasionally also cast static, as well as being another tank that doesn't need to be casted every game. I can then use 1 pt lower res as my curse and most runs Nihl will have the first half of his life dropped a bit by merc/golem, and this should save ~1-7 sec based on scrcrw's kill speeds above.
Thoughts?
Anyone have um runes in HC for beta use and willing to put them in an awful weapon? Is this a crazy idea or no? I figure max DR% and some iDR should be enough to keep myself safe from merc/golem stepping in viper clouds, and they should have enough life (and iDR for merc) to survive these as well.
If I go for this approach which merc would be best for doing the least dmg OR hitting the fastest, OR providing the most useful aura?
Another thought occurred but can't test myself. Is IG immune to viper cloud dmg since it's immune to poison naturally? I know it's the physical damage that is the problem but I figure it might be possible the game won't damage a unit if it can't be hit by poison. Eh, shot in the dark.
I think that's all for now.
edit: Also ~800 bone armor is very nice for this. Been a long time since I've used more than ~200 bone armor.
Last edited:
@logout: CE itself doesn't scale. At higher p-settings monsters life does, so that does make CE more dangerous.
@pharphis: Your nuts! :whistling: Oh, and some more constructive input: With bone prisoning everything both merc and golem will usually be unable to reach any monsters, thus not proc'ing anything. My bonemancer has an act I merc exactly because of that.
@pharphis: Your nuts! :whistling: Oh, and some more constructive input: With bone prisoning everything both merc and golem will usually be unable to reach any monsters, thus not proc'ing anything. My bonemancer has an act I merc exactly because of that.
logoutzero
Active member
- Nov 9, 2005
- 1,539
- 91
- 28
With a long range weapon, can't the Desert Mercenary reach over walls?
I really wish I had more to say, but we discussed this for some hours last night, and I don't have anything new to add!
I really wish I had more to say, but we discussed this for some hours last night, and I don't have anything new to add!
That works nicely! I'm running CS with my hammerdin atm, and would definitely consider switching to Nihlathatk smiter if I ever happen to keep on leveling until 98.
Any thoughts on equipment? Would you guys change something that scrcrw used?
I found that at least in scrwcrw's vid he almost always had a minion or two smacking him while he was firing away at nihlathak.
and CE from nihl doesn't scale with the monster life, either, according to the amazon basin
Google