Phillinnicus
New member
Yeah, I'd love to know and don't have the time to sift through all the spam.
Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Game Thread
- Thread starter Drixx
- Start date
Player initiated actions are only half the story (and maybe less than half). Neither the Mason QT nor the mafia QT would tell you why BA died (twice) while performing a hitman action against the masons. Neither QT will give clues what Dandelo's roleblocking (silences) can or can't be prevent since nothing appeared to be blocked the entire game. No QT thread contains info why I survived two lynches and died the morning after the second averted lynch. I don't know what a semi-sane cop random cop is. MouseT's listener results show a couple instances of actual player names. I'd say the important ones (the ones with the largest game impact) can't be found in any QT.
Yo,
In chat 1, post 242/243.
What are you two referring to? I suspect it might be the "mafia will silence themselves" thing but it's way easier to ask y'all.
IWantToUseNumbersInMyName
New member
The first BA death is explained by susannahs ability, which was to kill the first person to approach the ka-tet with hostile intent. His second death is explained here.
1.) Normal Kill: Bad Ash uses Strongman targeting BipolarChemist - Success. Eddie Dean retaliates and kills Bad Ash. BipolarChemist was 1x passive eliminator (killed the first person approaching the ka-tet with intent to harm), retaliator/lover
2.) Caluin Graye uses 1x shot targeting Kestegs - Success. Kestegs dies. Kestegs was daytalk facilitator and passive bodyguard for Roland.
3.) Laarz uses his block on djmbbandie - Partial success (cannot block passives).
4.) Investigation: Phillinnicus - Critical Success - Vanilla - Expended Ability (Escape Artist)
In one of the QT's Drixx specifically says that dandelos roleblocking does not work on passives, i.e. the bodyguard of of jake and the kill by susannah, and the kill by eddie. So Bad Ash was killed by susannah for approaching the ka-tet, then by eddie for killing susannah. You're able to infer from other things said in the QT, and the story, that you survived the first lynch because a member of the ka-tet locked you, and survived the second because a non member of the ka-tet locked you.
Based on what mafiascum has to say, a random cop is a cop with randomized results, so that seems fairly straightforward. The exact %'s of the randomization could be useful, but beyond that it makes sense.
However, the reason why you died the morning after the 2nd lynch isn't to be found anywhere, unfortunately. The reason why everything happened the way it did in the game seems fairly straightforward to me at least.
IWantToUseNumbersInMyName
New member
Oh, and whether or not you think the retaliations were too much,(I kind of think they were, given that the mafia has to lose at least 2/5 members to get to any victory besides the beam one), that's a question of balance, not transparency in what actually ended up happening.
IWantToUseNumbersInMyName
New member
Actually, as far as criticism at the game balance goes, that's my biggest one. The only victory the mafia had any reasonable chance of attaining was the beam one. 4 kills without having to mess with any of the ka-tet, and game over. A regular victory, given that there are 5 ka-tet members, and 4 members of the white who need to die for the beam to be exposed, means even if the mafia kills the rest of the town, leaving only themselves, the ka-tet, and the guardians, in order to gain control of the vote they would have to kill 3 of the members of the white without touching the ka-tet, leaving the game 5 red vs 6 white, then sacrifice someone using strongman for the first kill on the katet, which will hopefully be on eddie, leaving the game 4 red vs 5 white, need to force the most amazing mislynch ever vs an even number of masons, so it's 4 red and 4 white, and then nk susannah. That seems implausible to say the least. Killing the ka-tet seems to be almost as difficult, and again requires the usage of the right people to suck up the retaliations from susannah and eddie, or just killing them in the right order.
Caluin Graye
New member
242 was first just a general thought I voiced, since you were doing some pretty good pinpointing, then a comment back to Goryani since I slipped in a post at one point and didn't see it.
243 was just me talking out loud about ways to remove you without having to actually kill you. IIRC, you were the first to really question the people that had been silenced (Gwaihir and myself) and at the time I thought both of us were coming across as quite townie.
Obviously that was very unlikely to ever work.
I had a lot of fun Drixx. Thanks for inviting me.It was interesting to experience a forum mafia game and I hope that I can participate again and be more active in the future.
What about those people that had actions, but not QT's?
I actually had an investigate power that could be used to find Mordred (which I did not do until the day he was lynched the first time). I was untrackable interestingly, but could not reveal results to the thread. I also had a chance to get a critical success, so I actually knew Zauper was the healer and white, which was why I backed off him at some point.
That is part of the reason I like seeing the details, but that could just because I am overly curious.
Anyways, don't think it has been said, but I am pretty sure I can speak for everyone who has had a few games here already: It was fun playing with you Mouse, Zauper, and IWTUNIMN! Hope you guys stick around and keep playing. (Although you might need to up your post count Zauper
).To me, that looks like two uses of the same 1x ability. That or someone had the same 1x ability as someone else but it was hidden. Meanwhile, the masons appear to not know if their 1x ability was or wasn't used. I'm curious about the hidden things. What hidden things did we see and which ones did we not see?
When talking about mafia fake claims, Drixx said town is going to be upset because of the stories. I didn't see that occur in the game. That's another hidden thing I'm curious about.
Let me rephrase then: What abilities in the game were passives and which ones were active? The active/passive status is not clear based on ability name. Bodyguard is clearly an active ability (target someone to save them at night) yet Jake's ability wasn't the normal bodyguard (it's closer to a Seraph Knight). Masons received kill flips as if they had an active ability (vigi will receive a kill flip but bomb/pgo/bodyguard/nexus should not) but the ability in question couldn't be blocked like an active ability.
Semi-sane is....?
Also, I didn't see much randomness in the random cop. One investigation that should have resulted in Red returned Unfound (BA on N1). One investigation that should have resulted in Unfound returned Red (Gwaihir N2). I think all the rest were accurate.
While on the subject of cops, how did Walter Padick's "You may not be revealed by investigative roles, due to your great talents as a sorcerer" ability work? It looks likes it failed twice since one cop received the correct Unfound result and another received an incorrect yet damnable scum result.
IWantToUseNumbersInMyName
New member
It seems fairly obvious to me based on the events that happened which abilities were passive and which weren't. Jakes and Oy's bodyguarding of roland would have been passive, susannah's preeptive retatliation for the ka-tet was passive, and eddies retaliation for susannah was passive. I mean, imo passive means does not require a specific use, i.e., always active. I know what you want Goryani and why, I'm just saying the events that happened almost make perfect sense based on the QT's alone. The details of each characters role beyond what was given in each PM would be nice though, in case there were other mechanics that didn't come into play.
Was it really? I thought it was reverse psychology to fool a listener like #184. Since you were silenced that night/day, if a listener saw that post they might conclude mafia was trying to get you lynched by silencing you.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot that one. I was informed that the 1 shot that was passed to the masons was able to bypass by investigation immunity. As for flubb, I got nothing. My initial premise was a insane cop (Red is unfound, white is red, unfound is white) But I forgot to revisit that theory once I figured CG was scum and unlikely to be a godfather.
Caluin Graye
New member
Naa, too many posts that day. The chances of listener getting something specific and interpreting it a specific way is very minimal. Too much work, too little gain. I tried to keep damning evidence out as much as possible, but didn't really go out of my way to try to fool the listener.
Or may have been that. I have a hard time remembering what I ate for lunch 15 minutes ago. That was weeks past.
Caluin Graye
New member
The semi-sane cop was fine, and a good role. Giving him differently worded results was my issue with the role: If the cop can tell which of his results are true and which are not, then the semi-sane part becomes pointless. It then devolves into a "Tonight I'm either a Vanilla that got words in a PM, or I'm an actual cop that got to investigate."
Had the result he gotten on me been worded the same as Bad Ash's and Gwaihirs, I could have fought his investigation. Unfortunately, as Flubbs was fond of repeating, the word 'irrefutable' made it impossible for me to sway the town's opinion on his result, even though he had been wrong about the two prior ones.
Tangent: I'm interested to know how the provided fake claims were supposed to interact with the story and town's opinions on us? I think I'm the only person who actually used mine as given, and didn't see a whole lot of difference.
Had the result he gotten on me been worded the same as Bad Ash's and Gwaihirs, I could have fought his investigation. Unfortunately, as Flubbs was fond of repeating, the word 'irrefutable' made it impossible for me to sway the town's opinion on his result, even though he had been wrong about the two prior ones.
Tangent: I'm interested to know how the provided fake claims were supposed to interact with the story and town's opinions on us? I think I'm the only person who actually used mine as given, and didn't see a whole lot of difference.
Just eat the same thing for lunch everyday, that would make it easier!
Without any hints, a semi-sane cop just becomes a random cop. So maybe give something to differentiate betwen the two but no way to tell which is actually sane?
As for you, I had you on my town: unlikely to be Mordred list up until you unvoted at that days end. Would have been forever before I investigated you otherwise.
Drixx if posting the info is too much, I'd be happy to host it on one of my websites so you could just link to it without having to try and get under the words per post limit. Easiest way to deal with stuff like this, is to zip the relevent file(s) and I can upload the zip or the individual files.
Pop me a PM if you want to take advantage of that offer and I'll drop you an email addy.
Best wishes regards your health issues. My uncle had a kidney out many years ago and he's still trucking.
Pop me a PM if you want to take advantage of that offer and I'll drop you an email addy.
Best wishes regards your health issues. My uncle had a kidney out many years ago and he's still trucking.
Caluin Graye
New member
I ran out of people willing to let me eat their eyeballs.
Drixx if posting the info is too much, I'd be happy to host it on one of my websites so you could just link to it without having to try and get under the words per post limit. Easiest way to deal with stuff like this, is to zip the relevent file(s) and I can upload the zip or the individual files.
Pop me a PM if you want to take advantage of that offer and I'll drop you an email addy.
Best wishes regards your health issues. My uncle had a kidney out many years ago and he's still trucking.
Thank you for the offer. I've been taking a bit of time to just rest and attend to some other stuff. I just need to pull all the night actions out of the document and post them (which should answer about 95% of the questions).
The full source document I'd like to provide but it's enormous. It includes my starting argument/thesis for the game, goals for the game, tons and tons of lore, lots of discarded ideas and then of course the actual full list of roles that made it, and then a bunch of self-notes for which story hooks should lead to which story.
I'm sort of at a loss as to how to organize it in any fashion that will seem the least bit sane lol. Once I get working on it, I'll probably separate it into sections and if you have a place I can host it I can show everyone the process I went through in designing the game. Obviously it didn't come out as well as I wanted it to, but I blame that more on first time mod mistakes than anything. I've learned an incredible amount through this game and I think it's going to help with the game Goryani and I will be working on and then whatever game I do some time after that.
I really hope that the process and thought I put into trying to make it a very lore-centric game that felt like experiencing the setting of the game will shine through more than the mistakes in balance.
As a note for the beam win condition ... it was actually original intended as a neutral faction win condition that the mafia inherited when I eliminated the neutral faction from the setup. In hindsight I feel like it was potentially too powerful, although in the end it took them a long time to find it and it was luck more than anything, which is why I think it shouldn't have been there. Skill should win over luck.
Anyway, I will be posting the night actions, I just need to gather them together and make sure it's a readable format. I kept individual night actions and their associated randomized numbers with the role they went with and made summary lists at the end of the document so now I need to put that information back together and see if anything needs any explaining, and honestly I've slept an awful lot since I posted the end of game stories.
I've also been processing the feedback everyone has given and making notes to myself for future hosting while it's all fresh and I can learn the most from it.
So look for the night actions list to get edited into this thread in the next day or two, and I'll get with Thyiad for a website space to put a tour of the game setup from conception to actual implementation up, so everyone can see the process. I might take a little extra time and add some after the fact notes to what I learned and how I would change the game if I were to run it again (elsewhere perhaps). Maybe Thyiad can make a little corner of the web where each game creator can do something similar if they want. I hope you guys will find the process I went through of thinking up lore-centric roles and trying to adapt the lore to mafia interesting. Some of the crazy stuff I had in mind that ended up on the cutting-room floor, as it were, should be amusing too.
At one point I was going to have the game take place with Roland's original ka-tet ... the problem I ran into was that I had no villains to be the mafia team, lol.
I am not so sure "willing" was the correct word for it. Although to be fair, I did attempt to shoot you first.
