Gods of Ancient Greece. Forum mafia game.

[pharphis]

In one version of the Bomb role, when the Bomb is killed at Night all other players who target the Bomb that Night will also die.

You know, this seems like the most likely scenario imo.

Gory, who do you think is mostly likely to have been the bomb if this was the case? Who do you think is most likely to have targeted (as a townie)?
What do you think Jcakes?

 

[pharphis]

You know, this seems like the most likely scenario imo.

Gory, who do you think is mostly likely to have been the bomb if this was the case? Who do you think is most likely to have targeted (as a townie)?
What do you think Jcakes?

Caluin Graye has been killed.
Solar Ice has been killed.
Sathoris has been killed.
Leopold Stotch has been killed.

I think Sath and Leo were most likely investigative roles, given their posts yesterday. I also think that CG would be much more likely to be targeted of the remaining two, Solar and CG, because he was being bashed for role fishing. This leaves me thinking Solar was the killer, but that's assuming 1 mafia, 3 townies. 1 Bomb and 2 investigators. Meh.

 

[Zokar1]

I have a few minutes, so I'll answer what I can before I have to leave.
I said I may not be here today, that's one of the reasons I went ahead and posted what I did when I did.
Gory is strong enough that if I spent the day not responding I'm sure he can manipulate the circumstances to promote a lynch on me. Given that there is some traction for that and me not being available for the most of the day, I decided I would rather get the info out there before being lynched.

I quoted a bunch of stuff and I'll try to get to them here:

Interesting. Are you waiting for Gory for you to tell us the results on the person you targeted N1?

On a different note,
@Zokar, @Laarz, @Moar
Of the 4 people who died last night, which 1 do you think is most likely to be mafia?
Which 2?
Which 3?
Which 4? (jk)

No to the first part.
As for the dead people... I haven't the slightest idea.

That is a strange result. If anything it sounds like he could have been targeted by a jailkeeper last night. Not sure what other role would prevent targeting at night.

Tons of things... he could be a ninja, a commuter, a godfather, sk, etc.

That wouldn't be too surprising to hear. Gory is typically targeted by docs early on from what I've heard.

a doc save messing up an investigation???????

Now why did you claim? IIRC, you were waiting on Gory to tell his almighty insight, then you were going to tell your lesser news.

What changed? Why so eager?

read above.

I had another thought. From memory Serial Killers return a Null result, though I would have thought the wording would be unknown or no-result. Not "untargetable".

I don't know, never seen a SK before so *shrugs*

Zokar:
Why did you choose to come forward now, making yourself a target without sharing any real info?

see above.

I suppose I can show you mine now.

Short version: During D1 you did a LOT of rolefishing.
Post 24 you publicly point out when you thought Ankeli was breadcrumbing.

yes, and I think it's still a possibility

Post 280 you wonder if Moar is a scientist/inventor that gives things to others.

So this makes me scum because I"m thinking out loud and tossing out possible scenarios? I guess I shouldn't do that then.

Post 303 was the big one. It's the closest someone can come to asking " Are you a cop and have a guilty verdict?" without uttering the words cop or guilty. And Sathoris turned up dead. Coincidence?

Context... seems the flavor of the game is to make votes without giving reasons and then calling others out when they actually do provide reasons... you're spinning this in a bizarre way.

On D2:
Post 365 (b): The group of players most likely to have an inkling of multiple, smaller mafia are....members of one of those mafia teams.
Also in 365 (b): "Hunting for Zeus the only mafioso" is a lot like "Hunting for the SK." Which group of players are most interested in finding a SK? Mafia.

I did not suggest multiple smaller teams, I actually suggested one player... one team. You're painting a misguided picture.

Multiple reasons pointing to the same conclusion is usually a correct conclusion. So I voted.

You're entitled to a wrong vote just like everybody else I suppose.

After my vote for you D2:
Post 417: My reasons are standard scumhunting reasons but it looks like you expected I had something more....concrete. This becomes MOST interesting since it's essentially what you asked of Sathoris.

Many of the posts you make are designed to solicit information from the player you are talking to. And not just any information. Role specific information. Information about their name, abilities, and knowledge. You did it with Ankeli, Moar, Sathoris and myself.

So I take it that this is a bad thing to do? Trying to find out information?

This is throwing up red flags. Lots of them. If an informational role fails for some reason (block, hider, etc), I've never seen TC provide a failure notice.

Well, now you have... what do you make of that?

I'm not a god (neither am I a Primordial Deity or whatever term Zokar used). I'm town. There goes that theory.

So, Primordial Deity is a god but part of a particular group. Gaia (Earth), Eros (Love), Nyx (Night), Chronos (Time), etc... there are a number of them. However, there are other gods that do not fit in that list. You say you're not a god, but you do not say you are human. So, you could be a demi-god... Heracles, Troy, Achilles, etc. They all have extraordinary abilities and fit in the theme. Are you saying that you are indeed actually human?

Before I'm gonna cast a vote today I want Zokar to answer some of the questions that have been asked. I think Gory pointed out some pretty relevant stuff. Particularly this quote doesn't sit well with me:

Do you intend to share them before the day is over or are you going to wait until something specific happens

I think you're reading too much into my statement. I was wondering if he was waiting for somebody to say something to catch them in a lie or something. I didn't know if he had an ability and was trying to do something or if it was just theorycrafting on his part.

Why now? Investigation roles generally stay quiet until they have something actually useful to say from their investigations

read above.

Those are some very valid points. Maybe he killed Sath and Sath had the role that he is now claiming.

Nope.

The possibility of there being a 4 kill night with just one SK doesn't make sense. That and the balance would be extremely impractical, I know you've only played one game, but I would think from that one game you would know that 1 vs. 19 just sounds pretty darn ridiculous.

Doesn't matter how it sounds. Mathematically it is viable. With extra town powers, limited use abilities, and all the gadgets usable by the mod, such a game is mathematically possible to be balanced. With such an extreme death count on the first day, I am not willing to discount such a notion. I could be wrong blah blah blah but that's no different from any other day.

So you outed yourself as an informational role for what reason? Because Gory voted you and you guys decided to have a game of "No you show me yours first?" Thats almost as sad as Moar claiming 3/4th stump yesterday.

read above.

That being said since the game of "No you show me yours first" is over I will state what I thought, based on that quote alone it seemed like Zokar was trying to push us away from scum hunting a group of people and look only for one specific person and nothing more, something a normal town player would not normally suggest as a scumhunting strategy.

I wasn't pushing the idea with any effort. I simply tossed it out there and left it. I didn't support it with any major effort or anything. I didn't bring it up multiple times and ask why you guys aren't pushing for my idea... I simply floated the idea and left it at that. How do you get the feeling that I'm trying to force you down a particular path as opposed to floating ideas out there to see if there is any traction?

If its one thing I learned quickly from previous games its that while finding the SK is important it should not take precedence over finding scum in general as finding one specific person is much more difficult than drawing connections between others.

That's fine and dandy, I'm not suggesting or pushing you to do anything else... *shrugs*

-----------------------------

Ok, now that all that is at least replied to, I'll just say this: I knew as soon as Gory voted against me that something here was wrong. I use my ability on him, it doesn't work and then he votes for me.... I don't really like coincidences, so I will leave my vote where it is. End of day is in 2 and 1/2 hours. I will try my best to log back in 2 hours from now if I can sneak away and at least read what has been posted and if I can I'll try to reply but no guarantees.

 

[pharphis]

Day just started yesterday
We've still got a day I believe.

Also, when I said that docs typically target Gory early on, I meant that so would a jailkeeper, hence blocking an investigation. If you're going to be lynched are you going to tell us the result of your investigation, or is it not worth outing the information to mafia?

 

[Zokar1]

Oh FFS!.... Same mistake in both of my games... going to have to fix that, maybe post it notes with times on it or something.

I thought tomorrow was going to be a day off so I made plans for then, I'll see about changing them to next weekend.
On that note, I will not be on for the rest of the day, will check in tomorrow morning.

 

[korialstraz]

This got messy fast. flashback to Leo having a bomb.

Anywa I've been reading from my phone to keep up, but quoting is too much of a pain on this thing. I'll be home again before the day is over, so I'll quote and answer then.

 

[Moar]

I have Internet, but still only on the iPad, so deal with crap spelling. Full role claim which I obviously couldn't do last day (was an even night following). I can vote on odd days and I can be Nked on even nights. I can,t be lynched. There was nothing about having to claim it in the PM.

 

[Goryani]

You know, this seems like the most likely scenario imo.

Gory, who do you think is mostly likely to have been the bomb if this was the case? Who do you think is most likely to have targeted (as a townie)?

I had a solid town read on Leo and CG. I had a tentative town read on Sathoris. Any one of them could have been a bomb (assuming the bomb scenario in the first place).

I did NOT have a townie read on Solar Ice. In fact, my read was pretty negative. He didn't come out guns blazing. He was relatively passive. He threw up softball questions and didn't follow up on them. He found CG scummy (and voted) for the same post I considered townie. Based on their D1 play, I think the most likely player to trigger a bomb would be Solar Ice. If he would have survived, I would have a tough decision between voting Zokar and voting Solar Ice.

But all that assumes a bomb. While a bomb is probably the most likely source that can cause 4 deaths with one action, causing 4 deaths with that one actions eliminates a whole lot of things: multiple mafia, SK, vigilante, lovers, delayed N1 kill, elite bodyguard, weak doc, hider. Some of those things are much more common than bombs.

 

[Goryani]

Caluin Graye has been killed.
Solar Ice has been killed.
Sathoris has been killed.
Leopold Stotch has been killed.

I think Sath and Leo were most likely investigative roles, given their posts yesterday. I also think that CG would be much more likely to be targeted of the remaining two, Solar and CG, because he was being bashed for role fishing. This leaves me thinking Solar was the killer, but that's assuming 1 mafia, 3 townies. 1 Bomb and 2 investigators. Meh.

Did you just answer your own questions you posed to Jcakes and I?

 

[pharphis]

Yes. I thought I would give my thoughts since I've mostly just been asking questions. People aren't asking me much, and I don't want to miss out on the fun.

Besides, seeing if people copy your answers is interesting.

 

[Goryani]

So this makes me scum because I"m thinking out loud and tossing out possible scenarios? I guess I shouldn't do that then.

Scum is as scum does and you're doing as scum want to do. Moar's answer of yes or no would help you determine how much of a threat she is to your team. Would it be a good idea for all townie power roles like scientist/inventor to claim on D1 to help the town narrow down possible scum? NO!

Context... seems the flavor of the game is to make votes without giving reasons and then calling others out when they actually do provide reasons... you're spinning this in a bizarre way.

Context is why I think it's scummy. You were wondering if Sathoris voted but didn't give a reason because he was an investigative role that received damning evidence. You wanted Sathoris to confirm/deny that hunch.

I did not suggest multiple smaller teams, I actually suggested one player... one team. You're painting a misguided picture.

What the... I stand corrected. I saw you agreed with corax and on my first read through I thought corax floated a multiple mafia idea. Doesn't look like that now. My bad.

The other charge regarding that post is still relevant.

So I take it that this is a bad thing to do? Trying to find out information?

Mafia benefit from fishing for role information. You were fishing for role information. A townie doesn't try to find out that type of information so early.

And yes, rolefishing is a bad thing to do. Malevolent was lynched early for 3?4? games in a row for doing exactly that. I think he was actual scum for all but one of those games.

Well, now you have... what do you make of that?

/shrug. It's either a lie, a stretching of the truth (just because a hitman obtains the role of the killed doesn't mean hitman is an informational role) or it isn't a standard informational role.

So, Primordial Deity is a god but part of a particular group. Gaia (Earth), Eros (Love), Nyx (Night), Chronos (Time), etc... there are a number of them. However, there are other gods that do not fit in that list. You say you're not a god, but you do not say you are human. So, you could be a demi-god... Heracles, Troy, Achilles, etc. They all have extraordinary abilities and fit in the theme. Are you saying that you are indeed actually human?

I would call my character human. I'm pretty sure everyone else would call my character human. I'm not familiar with any reference my character has with classical Greek mythology. I'm not full claiming yet so no comment on the extraordinary abilities fishing.

 

[Goryani]

Besides, seeing if people copy your answers is interesting.

That's why I didn't make a case for Zokar when I first voted. If someone also thought Zokar was scummy and pointed out reasons I kept hidden, it's a pretty solid bet that someone is townie.

 

[pharphis]

That's why I didn't make a case for Zokar when I first voted. If someone also thought Zokar was scummy and pointed out reasons I kept hidden, it's a pretty solid bet that someone is townie.

Good point.
The other reason I wanted to put forward my own thoughts was the thread has been pretty dead since noon today.

 

[Jcakes1]

You know, this seems like the most likely scenario imo.

Gory, who do you think is mostly likely to have been the bomb if this was the case? Who do you think is most likely to have targeted (as a townie)?
What do you think Jcakes?

I don't really like speculating on what could have happened. We don't have any information and it can lead us to make bad assumptions (PGO last game lead the town to think there was only one remaining mafia).
I will answer this question this once. I think Leo was most likely town. I didn't have good reads on Sath, CG or SI. If I was to make a wild guess I would say SI is mafia and one of Sath or CG was the bomp.

So, Primordial Deity is a god but part of a particular group. Gaia (Earth), Eros (Love), Nyx (Night), Chronos (Time), etc... there are a number of them. However, there are other gods that do not fit in that list. You say you're not a god, but you do not say you are human. So, you could be a demi-god... Heracles, Troy, Achilles, etc. They all have extraordinary abilities and fit in the theme. Are you saying that you are indeed actually human?

I like the fishing there. Also one thing you didn't mention is a number of Primordial Diety's are more evil than others.
Nyx is the mother of death for example and Tartarus is hell.

The thing I don't like about your claim is you had no real evidence of anything at all. It feels like it was a role claim in an attempt to save yourself.

 

[Jcakes1]

I would call my character human. I'm pretty sure everyone else would call my character human. I'm not familiar with any reference my character has with classical Greek mythology. I'm not full claiming yet so no comment on the extraordinary abilities fishing.

I find this interesting. From what I know of you, you would have done your research and thus if you are not aware of any connection to Greek mythology that is surprising. I have a town read on you, but if anyone else had suggested they were not related to Greek Mythology I would be very suspicious. So I am not really sure what to make of it.

 

[Goryani]

I find this interesting. From what I know of you, you would have done your research and thus if you are not aware of any connection to Greek mythology that is surprising. I have a town read on you, but if anyone else had suggested they were not related to Greek Mythology I would be very suspicious. So I am not really sure what to make of it.

Not finding any reference doesn't mean there is no connection. It's possible there is a connection and I didn't find it. Also, I specifically mentioned *classical* Greek mythology.

 

[thefranklin]

The testing portion looks like pretty solid logic if you really believe I don't believe in the "treestump can't be voted" aspect. I can believe that reasoning but it's also a good practice when dealing with treestumps. I really do believe that. Standard Treestump definition.

I have no idea what the above means. You stated you could test Moar's tree stumpness by voting for her and if your vote did not count, she was a treestump. So your highlighted "don't" is supposed to be a do? And why did you not test that today if that is your belief? Of course I tested it for you, but it was more to see if you knew something I didn't. I did look at that link before I replied to you the first time (didn't want to look dumb, lol) and it says nothing about a vote sticking or not.

I can't breadcrumb something I know nothing about. The first question, which you bolded, points out the major inconsistency with your wild theory. If you have a post restriction, you will have been told you have a post restriction. Your "Either way, to see if I am vote restricted:" comment indicates you don't have said post restriction, so the comment, and the "theory that necessitates such a comment, is nothing more than a ruse. You're trying to make me look suspicious based on a theory you don't even believe in.

Also, I would LOVE if mafia try to fake a treestump in the manner you describe. There are multiple ways to test a treestump. I place a vote on the "treestump." I wait for a vote count update. I see my vote counts. I have just exposed a lie. Easy mafia lynch.

This was your post about it yesterday for reference. Now people don't have to go searching the thread to piece it together. PS: More ways to test a tree stump? Please enlighten me?

Highlighted some more things I did not like in your post. My vote comment is based on the idea that there is no rule that a restriction on your vote has to be addressed to you at daybreak. And saying I don't believe in an unproven "theory" I came up with, well I could see you making that comment if I used the word "fact."

What type of read does a Zokar lynch give regarding Ankeli? Is it because of the Wild Theory?

If Zokar flips scum, I would not think he would call out his scum buddy on such an off topic post on D1 in case someone saw truth in it.

 

[thefranklin]

I have a few minutes, so I'll answer what I can before I have to leave.
I said I may not be here today, that's one of the reasons I went ahead and posted what I did when I did.
Gory is strong enough that if I spent the day not responding I'm sure he can manipulate the circumstances to promote a lynch on me. Given that there is some traction for that and me not being available for the most of the day, I decided I would rather get the info out there before being lynched.


-----------------------------

Ok, now that all that is at least replied to, I'll just say this: I knew as soon as Gory voted against me that something here was wrong. I use my ability on him, it doesn't work and then he votes for me.... I don't really like coincidences, so I will leave my vote where it is. End of day is in 2 and 1/2 hours. I will try my best to log back in 2 hours from now if I can sneak away and at least read what has been posted and if I can I'll try to reply but no guarantees.

Zokar: Your performance yesterday does say scum to me. Your claim also says scum to me. i highlighted your last sentence up there, yet you are not actually doing that. You gave us Gory results, but left out what you did N1. You also left out what you were looking for! Why is that? To me (and Kegs already picked this up), it feels like you are scum faking a claim, only giving as much information as you have to. Then you wait for a reaction, which gives you time to come up with more "results." You are careful not to give too much information for when you do get lynched.

 

[Kestegs]

I have a few minutes, so I'll answer what I can before I have to leave.
I said I may not be here today, that's one of the reasons I went ahead and posted what I did when I did.
Gory is strong enough that if I spent the day not responding I'm sure he can manipulate the circumstances to promote a lynch on me. Given that there is some traction for that and me not being available for the most of the day, I decided I would rather get the info out there before being lynched.

I quoted a bunch of stuff and I'll try to get to them here:

No to the first part.
As for the dead people... I haven't the slightest idea.

Tons of things... he could be a ninja, a commuter, a godfather, sk, etc.

a doc save messing up an investigation???????

read above.

I don't know, never seen a SK before so *shrugs*

see above.

yes, and I think it's still a possibility

So this makes me scum because I"m thinking out loud and tossing out possible scenarios? I guess I shouldn't do that then.

Context... seems the flavor of the game is to make votes without giving reasons and then calling others out when they actually do provide reasons... you're spinning this in a bizarre way.

I did not suggest multiple smaller teams, I actually suggested one player... one team. You're painting a misguided picture.

You're entitled to a wrong vote just like everybody else I suppose.

So I take it that this is a bad thing to do? Trying to find out information?

Well, now you have... what do you make of that?

So, Primordial Deity is a god but part of a particular group. Gaia (Earth), Eros (Love), Nyx (Night), Chronos (Time), etc... there are a number of them. However, there are other gods that do not fit in that list. You say you're not a god, but you do not say you are human. So, you could be a demi-god... Heracles, Troy, Achilles, etc. They all have extraordinary abilities and fit in the theme. Are you saying that you are indeed actually human?

I think you're reading too much into my statement. I was wondering if he was waiting for somebody to say something to catch them in a lie or something. I didn't know if he had an ability and was trying to do something or if it was just theorycrafting on his part.

read above.

Nope.

Doesn't matter how it sounds. Mathematically it is viable. With extra town powers, limited use abilities, and all the gadgets usable by the mod, such a game is mathematically possible to be balanced. With such an extreme death count on the first day, I am not willing to discount such a notion. I could be wrong blah blah blah but that's no different from any other day.

read above.

I wasn't pushing the idea with any effort. I simply tossed it out there and left it. I didn't support it with any major effort or anything. I didn't bring it up multiple times and ask why you guys aren't pushing for my idea... I simply floated the idea and left it at that. How do you get the feeling that I'm trying to force you down a particular path as opposed to floating ideas out there to see if there is any traction?

That's fine and dandy, I'm not suggesting or pushing you to do anything else... *shrugs*

-----------------------------

Ok, now that all that is at least replied to, I'll just say this: I knew as soon as Gory voted against me that something here was wrong. I use my ability on him, it doesn't work and then he votes for me.... I don't really like coincidences, so I will leave my vote where it is. End of day is in 2 and 1/2 hours. I will try my best to log back in 2 hours from now if I can sneak away and at least read what has been posted and if I can I'll try to reply but no guarantees.

You didn't really answer my question.

Why did you claim today?
What benefit does this give the town?

 

[Goryani]

The testing portion looks like pretty solid logic if you really believe I don't believe in the "treestump can't be voted" aspect. I can believe that reasoning but it's also a good practice when dealing with treestumps. I really do believe that. Standard Treestump definition.

I have no idea what the above means. You stated you could test Moar's tree stumpness by voting for her and if your vote did not count, she was a treestump. So your highlighted "don't" is supposed to be a do?

The highlighted don't is supposed to be a don't. What I believe can be different than what you believe I believe. To put it another way, what I believe can be different than what "normal Gory" believes (your words, post 226).

And why did you not test that today if that is your belief?

I made a different test. What makes you think that I think Moar is a traditional treestump?

Of course I tested it for you, but it was more to see if you knew something I didn't. I did look at that link before I replied to you the first time (didn't want to look dumb, lol) and it says nothing about a vote sticking or not.

"In essence, they are a dead player who can still post in the game thread."
"As Tree Stumps cannot vote, they are not counted as living players for any purpose."

Vote for a dead player. Does it count?

This was your post about it yesterday for reference. Now people don't have to go searching the thread to piece it together. PS: More ways to test a tree stump? Please enlighten me?

Look at the number of votes required for a lynch/lock. A treestump will change the vote numbers when there are on odd number of players (under these voting rules). With 15 players remaining, it takes 8 votes to lynch. If one of the 15 is a treestump, it would take 7 votes to lynch.

Highlighted some more things I did not like in your post. My vote comment is based on the idea that there is no rule that a restriction on your vote has to be addressed to you at daybreak. And saying I don't believe in an unproven "theory" I came up with, well I could see you making that comment if I used the word "fact."

Then we have a terminology barrier. What you describe isn't commonly referred to as a post restriction. I believe others mentioned this as well. You are referring to what I call a vote block. A player would know they have a post restruction. A player would know they have a vote restriction. A player might not know their vote was blocked.

If Zokar flips scum, I would not think he would call out his scum buddy on such an off topic post on D1 in case someone saw truth in it.

With that established, I can ask my real question: Why wasn't Moar on your list?