(KindofMafia) Assassin in the Castle!

kestegs said:
You can think someone is scummy, but you can't say why because that would blow the kings cover. Kinda removes most of the tactics.

Yeah. I thought about how the Assassin should play, and how a guard should play, and many times the strategies I came up with were overlapping.

Goryani, you were the only person to initiate a lynch on BA not just once, but thrice if I counted correctly. I think this threw a lot of people off. I didn't think anyone playing Assassin would be THAT ballsy to attempt a lynch on pure whim, since if you did hit the King, it would immediately put you under the spotlight. It seemed more likely that your votes were to simply disguise BA. Good play, congrats on the win.
 
Gawd, Goryani was the obvious assassin, but I couldn't put it in so many words cause he voted BA a couple of times which means people can't bring up the voting for fear of revealing the king. I thought my posts were clear enough, but you lot decided to ignore them and lynch me for the opposite reasons I listed. I told you it'd boil down to random lynches and a stealthing assassin. Town should've had this in the bag a long time ago..
 
Oh yea, congrats to gory are due.

I think gory just played the middle of the road most of the game. He started lynches but never acted very convicted of anything without others getting on board.
 
Your first comment.

I played it out a thousand times and had to assume that you knew he was the king and that you were a guard. Was it just luck that you made that post?

Thanks, cg, nice change of pace. All in all it was kinda frustrating though. You can think someone is scummy, but you can't say why because that would blow the kings cover. Kinda removes most of the tactics.

This exactly. this is also why i included some doubt on BA in all of my posts, and why I was SO certain that Gory was a guard. I thoguht he was just taking advantage of showing himself off as innocent, by being teh first to find a poor reason to vote BA.

You then continued to vote BA over and over. I thought it was crazy if you were just lucky with those. . .

Yes, thanks for hosting CG, this was REALLY fun. Even in the end :P

When it came to OMG vs Gory, I kept thinking back to the TWO times that OMG followed up Gory's vote on BA with one of his own. At that point I had no hope of determining the assassin.

VERY well played, Gory. When it came to my list, why did you think I outed you as guard? I can see now why you didn't talk much about it. At that point I remember using some lame excuse to claim you as a guard, and hoped others would see past that and think what really swayed me was your vote on BA.


 
I thought phar was the assassin this entire time. But you guys made the game that much easier when you all were just randomly voting and voting for people who you knew were guards.
 
Question: Since Gory and BA were killed at the same time, doesn't that mean both sides lose? Or on the other hand. . . Both sides win? Or for lore reasons, I become king? :P

Oh, I also promised to explain my weird re-voting behaviour. I don't remember who was on the block and who I was going to swap it to (Gwaihir--> Solar?) but I figured that if I did the last minute unvote or something then we could eliminate 2 birds with one stone, effectively proving someone innocent (to the guards AND the assassin, I guess).

Edit: I forgot, the problem is that I did the switch an hour early. Oops.
 
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Very well played, Gory. I finally had you pegged as the Assassin but only straight after I was lynched. I thought that there is no way that you could vote for me if you were a guard, as my votes on BA would have been obvious clue that I was not the Assassin. I should have voiced my concerns some more in my "dying breath", although I am not sure it would have made any difference.
 
Apologies, apologies apologies I was not around for the last vote. Or even really the second to last vote. It was my bachelor party this weekend and the place had wi-fi but nothing would connect to it, and my phone was dead like the entire weekend with the exception of the vote on OMG. Sorry CG. Did not think we would reach end game like that! haha. I agree, gory has a legit win and victory though and played a stellar game. (even though I had you pegged as the assassin and my guards refused to help me! haha)


Your first comment.

I played it out a thousand times and had to assume that you knew he was the king and that you were a guard. Was it just luck that you made that post?

Thanks, cg, nice change of pace. All in all it was kinda frustrating though. You can think someone is scummy, but you can't say why because that would blow the kings cover. Kinda removes most of the tactics.

This. When I finally honed in on you and wanted to vote for you, it was because I accepted that this was not a king cver up post. This post had to of give n you a ton of grace cause everyone else was doing the same thing

Yeah. I thought about how the Assassin should play, and how a guard should play, and many times the strategies I came up with were overlapping.

Goryani, you were the only person to initiate a lynch on BA not just once, but thrice if I counted correctly. I think this threw a lot of people off. I didn't think anyone playing Assassin would be THAT ballsy to attempt a lynch on pure whim, since if you did hit the King, it would immediately put you under the spotlight. It seemed more likely that your votes were to simply disguise BA. Good play, congrats on the win.

Man, this game is HARD as the king and has to be just as hard for the guards. at one point I knew we were screwed because I had simply tried to get too many people lynched. I totally changed my game at one point and I did not want to be driving ANY lynches, did not want anyone doing anything because I was, and totally was trying to peg pharphis as the king in later gameplay.


Gawd, Goryani was the obvious assassin, but I couldn't put it in so many words cause he voted BA a couple of times which means people can't bring up the voting for fear of revealing the king. I thought my posts were clear enough, but you lot decided to ignore them and lynch me for the opposite reasons I listed. I told you it'd boil down to random lynches and a stealthing assassin. Town should've had this in the bag a long time ago..

Very well played, Gory. I finally had you pegged as the Assassin but only straight after I was lynched. I thought that there is no way that you could vote for me if you were a guard, as my votes on BA would have been obvious clue that I was not the Assassin. I should have voiced my concerns some more in my "dying breath", although I am not sure it would have made any difference.

its so hard and it was awesome. You dont want to talk about things because if the assassin hadnt seen what you wanted to talk about it was a big advantage for you haha.

goryani was defintely worst case scenario assassin for the town cause of his great mafia gameplay. I too was even a little skeptical when I got 2-3 votes haha. If you were confused I think they did a good job, I was paranoid as hell and thought the assassin had a bead on me the entire game.


Thanks for hosting CG, lots of fun, sorry again about my absence, and congrats to gory



 
The guards (and king) did a good job of hiding the identity of the king. My first guess was Solar Ice. I thought there was no way his questions regarding pharphis' list would be essentially ignored by the town unless he was the king. When given the chance to lynch Solar, I took it. The list provided some clues as to who couldn't be the king, but I was never sure if some of the more subtle clues were real (Gwaihir and omg mostly, though Sathoris might have thought I was a guard and wanted to see who jumped on my wagon).

Well played sir. I did not have you peged until after SI was lynched. You took the job I was planning on attempting, which was a huge factor in why I did not suspect you. I figured we needed at least one guard to hound the king, and you seemed to be doing it, so I decided not to. Decided to try to lay low and imitate what I thought a king would do, but turns out that just made me a suspect.


Apologies, apologies apologies I was not around for the last vote. Or even really the second to last vote. It was my bachelor party this weekend and the place had wi-fi but nothing would connect to it, and my phone was dead like the entire weekend with the exception of the vote on OMG. Sorry CG. Did not think we would reach end game like that! haha. I agree, gory has a legit win and victory though and played a stellar game. (even though I had you pegged as the assassin and my guards refused to help me! haha).

That is a legit excuse. Congrats man!

Apparently I completely threw you for a loop on my last day BA. You had voted Gory several times, so I figured you suspected him. Since Gory had been after you so hard for the whole game, I figured he had you as his top choice for king. I was really hoping that if I voted for him, you would switch over right before the end of the day, allowing us to lynch him, possibly without him getting a chance to submit a kill order. I was trying to figure out how to make that clear without giving away the plan. Apparently did not do it well enough.


Also, CG, loved the game, and stories were amazing, can't wait to see the final one. Although I don't really see a way of avoiding the slowdown at the end. When both sides have something to hide, it really kills conversation. So with 3 people all desperatly trying to hide facts, people post a lot less.


 
It doesn't have to be about hiding by silence, faking roles are very powerful in this game and you need to talk a lot to get that out there.
 
Well the other thing is when gory voted for me again I was really convinced that he was the guy....but then how do you come out and say it? hell, I had to think about an xcuse and dig up some evidence to make it seem credible and cant say

YOURE VOTING FOR THE KING OVER AND OVER SO I KNOW ITS YOU!

very fun dynamic
 
It doesn't have to be about hiding by silence, faking roles are very powerful in this game and you need to talk a lot to get that out there.

I had two ideas on how I wanted to play. One was to pester the king, which Goryani already seemed to be doing. The second was to pretend to be the king. I tried to think about how I would play if I was the king and mimicked that style. It doesn't have to be about silence, but it doesn't have to be about making noise either. Even in a normal mafia game I prefer fewer in-depth posts that a bunch of less informative ones.

Well the other thing is when gory voted for me again I was really convinced that he was the guy....but then how do you come out and say it? hell, I had to think about an xcuse and dig up some evidence to make it seem credible and cant say

YOURE VOTING FOR THE KING OVER AND OVER SO I KNOW ITS YOU!

very fun dynamic

Lol, for most the game I just assumed he was trying to badger you so as to make you a less obvious target. I figured there was no way he got lucky enough to pin you on the first day (bad assumption on that part). But then after that was really the only person he voted for it got more suspicious. Should have gotten suspicious sooner though.


 
Yeah, and the worse part was that Goryani only consistently voted for one person, that being BA. If we forced an early lynch on Goryani, I'm pretty sure he would know who to kill.
 
Yeah, and the worse part was that Goryani only consistently voted for one person, that being BA. If we forced an early lynch on Goryani, I'm pretty sure he would know who to kill.
It's all about how you play it. This game shows perfectly how easy it is to get everyone on a bandwagon for next to no reason.


 
Okay! Sorry about the late reply and story, but the baby shower went a bit long, and then I stayed a bit past that, and then possibly over stayed my welcome a little bit...

Anyways. First off, thank you all for the kudos. I do not deserve all the credit; Gambor is the one who introduced me to the game in the first place, and mentioned it would be fun to play with you guys as something different. I simply went ahead and ran the game.

Secondly, the ending story has been posted. I should have had that up right away, but it could have gone three different ways and I did not have time to write all three possible endings. Hopefully it was worth the wait.

So, general thoughts on the game. I mentioned this to Goryani briefly in a PM, but I doubt I'll run another Assassin in the Castle/Palace game in the future. Mini-games in between big games, probably yes, but not this particular game. Sathoris touched on the biggest flaw with AitP early on, and the last two days exemplified the issue:

The assassin would be wise to not post as that means we cannot possible find him except randomly, which I'm guessing this game is going to boil down to. Random lynches until we hit the assa who if caught decides to kill the possible king.

Mafia, at it's core values, is a game of the Informed Minority (Mafia) versus the Uninformed Majority (Town). In Mafia, you have to post a lot to get information flowing to determine who is the good versus the bad. If people don't talk, then they're scummy and should be lynched.

However, this game is the opposite. The lone assassin (the minority) is missing the one critical piece of information that everyone else has (the town/majority). The more discussion that takes place, the more information you give to the assassin, making his job easier by either ruling out players as King, or placing suspicion on who is the King. So, optimally, the best way to play this game is to not talk at all and just randomly lynch people.

That makes for a boring game.

Luckily, this game did not turn out like that and was extremely entertaining. At least, for me it was. The psychology behind how you guys were 'scum-hunting' was great. Getting a back seat view from Goryani about who he thought was the King and why was enlightening. (For the record, I never gave him any help, only just asked him a couple times as to what he was thinking about the players at the time).

Favorite quote from the game was from kestegs, responding to pharphis -
@Kestegs,
If you likey, why don't you votey? Do you have a better target? Is it someone we know?
Do you think I'm trying to save my scum buddy? :confused:

This quote, I think, really nailed home for a few people that this was not a normal mafia game, and normal scum hunting tactics would not work. As Gambor stated succinctly - "You're not looking for mafia. You're basically looking for a one shot serial killer." Which is absolutely true.

Anyways. I am pleased beyond all words that this game turned out well and everyone had a good time. I wanted to try for something a little 'left of the dial', so to speak. Something that would make the players think and read into play-styles, rather than rely upon role PMs. Something that was similar to mafia, but different enough to not make it feel stale and worn out. Something that would invigorate the players and readers, and make them eager for the next great game.

Hopefully some of that was accomplished.

----

Edit, questions:
Apologies, apologies apologies I was not around for the last vote. Or even really the second to last vote. It was my bachelor party this weekend and the place had wi-fi but nothing would connect to it, and my phone was dead like the entire weekend with the exception of the vote on OMG. Sorry CG.

No apologies necessary. Even if you had posted, and even voted Goryani, he would have won the game. Before deadline he had PM'd me stating that if he was lynched that he had chosen you for the kill target. It just would have changed the first scene of the final story a little bit, so no harm, no foul.

I consider the King the hardest role to play. You know for a fact that you'll never be lynched, but you can't trust anyone else in the game. At least the guards have one other person they can trust. As the game wears on, the King gets harder and harder to play - is that a guard pretending to be the king to draw out the kill? Or is he misvoting because he's the assassin and doesn't know any better?

One suggestion: make role PM's public. My boomshankalaka comment wasn't an accident.

This is something I should have done, yes. In fact, it's something I should do with all my games. (At least, vanilla PMs in games that have power roles).



 
I played it out a thousand times and had to assume that you knew he was the king and that you were a guard. Was it just luck that you made that post?
Pure luck that the first player to sign up was the king.

Goryani, you were the only person to initiate a lynch on BA not just once, but thrice if I counted correctly. I think this threw a lot of people off. I didn't think anyone playing Assassin would be THAT ballsy to attempt a lynch on pure whim, since if you did hit the King, it would immediately put you under the spotlight. It seemed more likely that your votes were to simply disguise BA. Good play, congrats on the win.
I chose BA the third time because I chose BA the first two times. I was starting to get curious why neither he nor I were receiving any pressure at all (despite BA getting to two votes twice in the game).

But talking about disguising the king... Yeah, I would do that as a guard. I would also pick a guard (random person) to "disguise" as the king. It really is a WIFOM game.

Gawd, Goryani was the obvious assassin, but I couldn't put it in so many words cause he voted BA a couple of times which means people can't bring up the voting for fear of revealing the king. I thought my posts were clear enough, but you lot decided to ignore them and lynch me for the opposite reasons I listed. I told you it'd boil down to random lynches and a stealthing assassin. Town should've had this in the bag a long time ago..

The reason you voted for me is essentially the same reason I gave when I voted kestegs. Had you pressed me further, I would have pointed out that we agreed but you found neither yourself nor kestegs suspicious.

Random lynches and stealthing is how a lot of players play assassin in the castle. It's a good way to hide the king. In addition, I was trying to behave similarly to BA, omg and Gwaihir (toward the end - after your lynch). If one was the king and the others were singled out with having similar play styles, it might be a good way to find the king.

When it came to my list, why did you think I outed you as guard? I can see now why you didn't talk much about it. At that point I remember using some lame excuse to claim you as a guard, and hoped others would see past that and think what really swayed me was your vote on BA.

For evidence, you quoted the post where I dropped the boomshankalaka line. Shanked was part of the guard PM. At least I thought. It looked like you, gwaihir, and kestegs picked up on it. omg might have with his "might as well" reason for voting BA. I thought there was an outside chance Sathoris also picked up on it and voted me hoping to find anyone willing to place a vote on me for the reasons Sath stated (that was the spin I was going with once Sath was lynched).

But if I was considered guard for other reasons, I won't feel so scummy (though I was!).



 
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Very well played, Gory. I finally had you pegged as the Assassin but only straight after I was lynched. I thought that there is no way that you could vote for me if you were a guard, as my votes on BA would have been obvious clue that I was not the Assassin. I should have voiced my concerns some more in my "dying breath", although I am not sure it would have made any difference.

At the time, I thought you were the king so I 'helped' your lynch. I thought pharphis actions were a clear "I want to vote Solar Ice" signal and you would have been lynched anyway, so I thought there was little risk to me. If I did something, I tried to make it look either random, or a copy of someone else's actions.

Apologies, apologies apologies I was not around for the last vote. Or even really the second to last vote. It was my bachelor party this weekend and the place had wi-fi but nothing would connect to it, and my phone was dead like the entire weekend with the exception of the vote on OMG. Sorry CG. Did not think we would reach end game like that! haha. I agree, gory has a legit win and victory though and played a stellar game. (even though I had you pegged as the assassin and my guards refused to help me! haha)

Congrats! (pics or it didn't happen)

Did you receive a copy of the guard pm? Interesting that the gambit I was going for caught guards and not the actual king.

I was really hoping that if I voted for him, you would switch over right before the end of the day, allowing us to lynch him, possibly without him getting a chance to submit a kill order.
According to CG, I would have been lynched. The game would have shown my lynch. I would be required to submit a kill "very soon" but the game wouldn't be over until after I had a chance to submit a kill. I think the assassin always gets a chance to go for a kill, even if lynched/locked/etc. It's why hiding the king is so important, and more important than lynching the assassin.

Mafia, at it's core values, is a game of the Informed Minority (Mafia) versus the Uninformed Majority (Town). In Mafia, you have to post a lot to get information flowing to determine who is the good versus the bad. If people don't talk, then they're scummy and should be lynched.

However, this game is the opposite. The lone assassin (the minority) is missing the one critical piece of information that everyone else has (the town/majority). The more discussion that takes place, the more information you give to the assassin, making his job easier by either ruling out players as King, or placing suspicion on who is the King. So, optimally, the best way to play this game is to not talk at all and just randomly lynch people.

That makes for a boring game.

If you hate seeing MS references, don't look at the spoiler...
The "accepted best strategy" on mafiascum is to do quick random lynches and NOTHING else. Some guards will lynch another guard just because they are scumhunting. They will definitely lynch "proven guards" just because they are proven guards (and can't be king). I'm not a kool-aid drinker, but I acknowledge the wisdom of lurking as beneficial to guards and king. It's partly why I lurked (to look like a guard/king).

Personally, I like the challenge of interpreting players' based SOLELY on votes and unvotes. I think it's possible this game can be played where everyone has a restriction in which they can only vote and unvote. Is that fun? I think so. At least every once in a while. Do enough players think that is fun? Maybe not. Is it fun to mod? I imagine it would be boring as boring can be.



 
According to CG, I would have been lynched. The game would have shown my lynch. I would be required to submit a kill "very soon" but the game wouldn't be over until after I had a chance to submit a kill. I think the assassin always gets a chance to go for a kill, even if lynched/locked/etc. It's why hiding the king is so important, and more important than lynching the assassin.

Dang. Well apparently that plan would not have worked. oh well, worth a shot.


 
Yeah, I too thought that if the assassin was lynched then they would have to time their kill so as to do it before the end of the day. This is why I tried to do the revote thing.
 
Wow, that's really lucky, gory! I think your life would have been much shorter if you hadn't made that first post.
 
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