Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Yes, I did.

When exactly?

If gwaihir is lying then so is FoE, then so is Gory most likely. I suppose it's possible that mafia started out with the role thief (foe) and is using the fact that he looks town to also confirm gwaihir.
Gwaihir did visit noodle last night after all. I guess they don't have to be associated with gory, he merely confirmed that foe took his role.

I don't think your first statement is true. Let's make an easy assumption and say that all mafia members know each others' roles. The 'holy ward' could be an action from someone else on team and Gwaihir is simply claiming it with a false win condition to make himself appear townie.

Gwahir could very easily still have a kill role. Or it could have been ankeli, or anyone else. who knows?

The facts: Three people are dead and we have two known kill methods - the mafia and Ankeli. Which of the three would have Ankeli killed?

Valhauros I could see, since the only reason the train stopped on him yesterday was a cop investigation. Killing him is basically giving the town a free lynch and allowing discussion on other people to foster.

Noodle I could also see. He's a tough read. Killing a lurker is rarely a bad choice. His voting record shows him as high chance of being scum, having laid only a single vote in the entirety of the game, which was for Valhauros.

Ankeli... well, I can't see him killing himself. If we believe his earlier statements, the bus driver is already out of play, so that's not a likely option. Did he hit a PGO? We already had a bomb. Is there another one shot vig out there? Why target Ankeli?

So, which is more likely - that Ankeli killed Valhauros, or he killed Noodle?

 

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

I confirm I stole coju's role. I am now the monk. I'm pretty sure it's a night-time cop ability. I can't confirm the flavor coju mentioned about the monk role. I got the cliff notes version I guess. I CAN confirm the Paladin role had very similar flavor to what coju described.

Why coju? I saw something that made me think coju was feeding us a line. He said he investigated korial N1. During D2, after Ankeli's "who would you kill, who would you save" gambit, coju said he would kill korialstraz. Wanting to kill someone the day after you investigate them as townie is more than a little strange. Plus not wanting to share who the N2 target was, even though it was blocked. I was beginning to doubt the cop ability at all. Plus the line about wanting to vote Valh for a "quick lynch" when players started to jump off his train didn't sit well.

 

[Laarz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Goryani, were you able to use the ability after you stole it or do you have to wait?

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

So, which is more likely - that Ankeli killed Valhauros, or he killed Noodle?

I'm also not feeling the hate towards Val. :/

Looking back at yesterday when the lynch train was working on Val Ankeli made that statement, I think its much more likely that Ankeli would have targeted noodle unless his opinion on Val changed by day end.

I confirm I stole coju's role. I am now the monk. I'm pretty sure it's a night-time cop ability. I can't confirm the flavor coju mentioned about the monk role. I got the cliff notes version I guess. I CAN confirm the Paladin role had very similar flavor to what coju described.

Why coju? I saw something that made me think coju was feeding us a line. He said he investigated korial N1. During D2, after Ankeli's "who would you kill, who would you save" gambit, coju said he would kill korialstraz. Wanting to kill someone the day after you investigate them as townie is more than a little strange. Plus not wanting to share who the N2 target was, even though it was blocked. I was beginning to doubt the cop ability at all. Plus the line about wanting to vote Valh for a "quick lynch" when players started to jump off his train didn't sit well.

I think your role theif choice was probably a good one, there was definately substantial doubt about there being two investigative roles especially when they had produced different results.

@Gory: Didn't you investigate Laarz on D1 and get the result of innocent? Do you think there is any possiblility that this could be a false result due to the D1 story? Since coju was in fact an investigative role and he got the wrong read on korial what is the chance of this? Do you think only night results were altered? The only reason I'm thinking of this is because Laarz is one of FoE's top suspects.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Also special is likely to be SK no? What with the double kills and poison trademark. Two specials incl what Gwaihir claimed is, again, ridicilious.

FoE confirms he received a holy relic. Thus, he was targeted by the ability Gwaihir describes. Plus, FoE is still alive. Gwaihir secretly as SK poisoner implies FoE should be dead.

Gwaihir may be anti-town, but it seems obvious he isn't the SK. I'd believe Ankeli was SK far sooner than Gwaihir as SK.

The facts: Three people are dead and we have two known kill methods - the mafia and Ankeli. Which of the three would have Ankeli killed?

One of them isn't exactly known if there is a question whether it was one kill method that produced two kills or two kill methods that produced the two kills.

Goryani, were you able to use the ability after you stole it or do you have to wait?

I wasn't informed I had successfully stolen the role, and which role was stolen, until after it was too late to send any further night actions in (day had already started). I didn't even attempt to send in an investigation for N3.

@Gory: Didn't you investigate Laarz on D1 and get the result of innocent? Do you think there is any possiblility that this could be a false result due to the D1 story? Since coju was in fact an investigative role and he got the wrong read on korial what is the chance of this? Do you think only night results were altered? The only reason I'm thinking of this is because Laarz is one of FoE's top suspects.

Yes to the D1 investigation target and result.

Definitely yes to the possibility it could be a false positive. Before obtaining the D1 result, I wondered if the dream caused all mafia to be godfather for the duration of the dream. I think that is the most likely scenario right now since godfather was not an ability listed with korial's lynch.

Laarz could also have been affected. I wouldn't put enough faith in the innocent result from D1 or N1 investigation to outweigh any scummy behavior I see.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Gwaihir's claim is ridicilious, kestegs way to quick to believe such a claim. I ignored the usual suspects because they were getting enough attention anyway and focused on some other people to increase the town's tunnel vision. Plus being right about the other suspects would bring town cred and being wrong would mean mafia left me alive, win-win in my book. Will explain better later.

I think gory's response below covers this pretty well, more below.

Gwahir could very easily still have a kill role. Or it could have been ankeli, or anyone else. who knows

So do you think I have a kill role and a that hands out holy wards?

I don't think your first statement is true. Let's make an easy assumption and say that all mafia members know each others' roles. The 'holy ward' could be an action from someone else on team and Gwaihir is simply claiming it with a false win condition to make himself appear townie.

Do you think the mafia are likely to be handing out holy wards?

FoE confirms he received a holy relic. Thus, he was targeted by the ability Gwaihir describes. Plus, FoE is still alive. Gwaihir secretly as SK poisoner implies FoE should be dead.

Gwaihir may be anti-town, but it seems obvious he isn't the SK. I'd believe Ankeli was SK far sooner than Gwaihir as SK.

I guess I understand the doubt about my role, it is a very odd one. But in this game, it seems very unlikely that as anti-town I would have the proof that I have already given, or that the flavor of the proof would be so different than what we have seen.

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

The missionary role isn't too dissimilar to the way the Scientist role was used in a previous game. The scientist role was used as a means of confirming townies - the actual gadgets themselves were not nearly as important.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Do you think the mafia are likely to be handing out holy wards?

I'm not ruling out the possibility.

The missionary role isn't too dissimilar to the way the Scientist role was used in a previous game. The scientist role was used as a means of confirming townies - the actual gadgets themselves were not nearly as important.

Are you referring to the Ravenwood Retreat game? Where the scientist was handing out forensic kits to identify murders and then turned out to be the serial killer?

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

CG, yes, that's the one. The scientist being a SK was one of the biggest twists up until that game that I had seen in a game.

Was it Laarz who was the scientist then? I just remembered that I will never forgive him for that :yes: :rolf:

 

[flubbucket1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

...One of them isn't exactly known if there is a question whether it was one kill method that produced two kills or two kill methods that produced the two kills...

We have three deaths. So should we entertain the outside chance there are three kill methods/killers??

1)Someone targeted Noodle.
2)Ankeli's kill backfired (or some such)
3)Valhauros took the hit for someone else (and he hated it)

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your phrase.

 

[Laarz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

CG, yes, that's the one. The scientist being a SK was one of the biggest twists up until that game that I had seen in a game.

Was it Laarz who was the scientist then? I just remembered that I will never forgive him for that :yes: :rolf:

So now you join FoE,Pryo and CG in the FoS of myself, if you care to check your facts, I was the head of security *cop* in that game, killed by the ninja on the second night.

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Sorry, Laarz, my mistake!

But I still don't forgive you :wink:

 

[Kestegs]

I'm leaning towards gwaihir at this point. Sathoris bothers me a bit still though, his style has changed a lot from d1 and that doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not convinced laarz is scum either, but Korial getting read wrong on d1 makes me suspicious of him.

Busy, busy, more later!

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

When I saw temptress, I thought of two things: prostitute (aka, mafia roleblocker) and target manipulator. However, that's exactly what korialstraz turned out to be. I don't think it would be a carbon copy (or nearly, depending how the redirector/manipulator works).

I don't think you can assume allignement from a rolename. Necromage doesn't sound very pleasant either. Unless both Noodle and Ankeli were scum, which I doubt given the situation of their demise.

Failing apparently. Guess this means it is role claim time.

I am the missionary, special win conl.

I hand out a holy ward every night, but they don't actually do anything.
I win if I am alive and if everyone else alive has one of my wards.

Targets:
FoE
Val - blocked
Noodle - dead

So yeah, I am not exactly on a roll at the moment, especially as the only one out there is in the hands of a claimed cop. Don't see that lasting (no offense FoE). As for why I have been targeting who I have, mostly based on survival the past few games.

This is just absolute malarky. This role does nothing to further the game, you pose no threat to anyone. You are lying, which town wouldn't do and only mafia or SK would.

I can confirm I have received a holy ward, that doesn't do anything.

Nothing to you perhaps, but I'm sure it does something active to Gwaihir.

- Sath: pretty much ignored the hunt against Autti and (before my claim) Korial. Instead he was aggressive towards Val and Ank, who I both think were townies.

Sath is my favourite for now.

Vote: Sathoris

I'm gonna hang on to my investigation power for now and use it when I've got some posts to decide from. That is if I can use it. Pyro's idea about day actions being blocked today seems possible.

Cause Ankeli wasn't being forthcoming and Val was suspicious to say the least. There was nothing to datamine on Korial and Autti that wasn't already posted in abundance. Like I said. Going after some other people broadens the town's field of view. And I still got Kestegs left, and he jumped back higher into my scumlist.

I found this on the Internets...

I don't post this to confirm Noodle's townieness/scumminess, simply to shed light on what a temptress does. I'm sure there are Mafia and town versions of this role.

Temptress

• Day: You vote to eliminate scum.
• Night: You may send the name of one person to tempt and one victim to the moderator via PM.
  • A tempted person is compelled to vote to lynch the victim on the following day.
  • A tempted person may not tell anyone that they have been tempted.
  • A tempted person is compelled to do everything they can to ensure the victim is lynched on the following day

RE said he'd make up new roles. That role doesn't fit Noodle's playstyle at all. Why post info about a role that obviously isn't true for this game?

I'll
Vote: Sathauris
Because of this crazy voting record.

Not crazy at all, in fact I'm one of the only one to have transparent votes.

So sath, you think Foe is lying when he said he received a holy ward?

Maybe, maybe the ward does something other than Gwaihir says it does.

---

As explained by RE the reliable witness claiming Noodle and Ankeli sacrficied themselves story is just that, a story. Bad Ash is a verified tracker/watcher because Gwaihir confirmed he visited Noodle. Noodle ended up dead.

Given our options, we don't have a cop result to lynch someone, so we're going for someone who's the most suspicious. Risking a townie. Lynching Gwaihir means we don't lose a townie should he actually be telling the truth. I'd much rather lynch someone who visited someone who ended up dead and claims an unbelievable role afterwards than anyone else right now. My judgement on Kestegs can change depending on how Gwaihir flips. Coju is a bit of question mark. He was also quick to point out that N1 results came back opposite, but wasn't that dream there for N0 and D1? N1 had town nighttalk. N2 had all of us blocked. Plus two town cops makes you scared of what the mafia has. And so far we haven't seen anything that counters that. Or have we? Innocent looking mafia holy wards..

I'm all for a Gwaihir lynch unless somebody else is willing to give me a better risk vs reward strategy here. Haven't looked into that for Coju yet and I'm knocked out for the day, will do tomorrow unless someone wants townie points.

Vote: Gwaihir

 

[coju]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

During D2, after Ankeli's "who would you kill, who would you save" gambit, coju said he would kill korialstraz.

That's wrong. Completely wrong.

 

[RlyehExiled]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Votes as of #836

Flubbucket(1): Lozhinge
Gwahir(2): Caluin Graye, Sath
Sath(2): Fred, Coju

24 hours left, 7 to lynch

 

[coju]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Looks like I did say that... Hmmm.... :scratchchin:

I'll have to look back and figure out why, but it may have been that I didn't think I investigated him, as I tried to investigate pyro on pre-game, and had to pm the mod when koral was getting lynched to figure out who the read was actually on.


As for who I investigated n2, cannot remember. Be lying if I told y'all otherwise.

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

You're all over the place coju, as you have been all game..

 

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

We have three deaths. So should we entertain the outside chance there are three kill methods/killers??

Yes. One killer per killee should be the default assumption anytime there are night kills. I am entertaining the possibility of three killers until I understand how one action results in two deaths or until the combined claims of the rest of the players indicates a third killer isn't possible.

I'm using "killer" loosely in this discussion. A bomb is a killer that kills the person killing the bomb. A super bodyguard is a killer that kills the person targeting the person the bodyguard saves. A lovers pair is considered a killer if one of the pair dies when the other dies.

Lynching Gwaihir means we don't lose a townie should he actually be telling the truth.

Lynching a non-townie doesn't mean the town stands to lose anything from the lynch. From the standpoint of mafia, lynching the missionary is equivalent to lynching a townie because of lynch vote majority calculations. Any non-mafia lynched is like giving mafia an extra night kill.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Quite the post I broke it up some below.

This is just absolute malarky. This role does nothing to further the game, you pose no threat to anyone. You are lying, which town wouldn't do and only mafia or SK would.

Not lying, wish we could make a bet on that. I have no idea what you mean by furthering the game, and why it is needed for a role.

Nothing to you perhaps, but I'm sure it does something active to Gwaihir.

Nope, my first question to RE was do the wards do anything, and his response was nothing other than possibly cause some confusion.

Maybe, maybe the ward does something other than Gwaihir says it does.

See above

Plus two town cops makes you scared of what the mafia has. And so far we haven't seen anything that counters that. Or have we? Innocent looking mafia holy wards..

For my amusement, could you flesh out this theory?


In the end I see your point - losing me is not a huge blow to the town. But to my (granted biased) eyes, I have a claim backed up by proof.

From my (again, biased) point of view, the town has much better options. Specifically Laarz has not yet voted for a known scum.

Also coju - your vote ended up on kol after day one - you investigated him, and found him innocent, and then voted for him?