to HC pks

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Re: to HC pks

the Thrill of the hunt is the best thing. You dont know if those people are gonna be able to kill you and tracking them down is the best part. I usually go into games and hostile without knowing where they are.
While I would agree with Baranor that Blizzard -- for some reason that's 99.9% incomprehensible not only to myself but my guess would be, a great many other Diablo II players -- did definitely and deliberately build a "non-consensual dueling" feature into the game (so, in that sense, you have to assume that the original D2 designers intentionally wanted "legit" PK'ing to be a possible game outcome), personally I think that all but a small number of the "legit" PK'ers are really only a slight bit better than the "illegit" TPPKers, whatever "right" to this practice they fancy themselves to have been granted by the game designers.

The most basic reason why "legit" PK'ing is, IMO, at best a marginally acceptable pastime, is that in 99% of the occasions where I have seen it done, the scenario is always like the following:

(1.) Group of (say) Level 14 to 20 characters are happily playing co-operative Hardcore Diablo, they're all in the same party, and they're trying (say) to do the Maggot Lair or Claw Viper Temple quests in Act 2.

(2.) Level 18-25 Paladin (really a Charge / Might build, but he lies about it and says, "oh noes, I'm just leveling doodz, gonna make a Zealot") joins game, types "pp" and gets invited to join the party.

(3.) He joins, for the sole reason of finding out where the other party members are.

(4.) Immediately he leaves the party and hits the "Hostile" button.

(5.) Everybody, at least the sane ones who know all about the "legit" PK tricks [like, say, having the supposedly Level 18 character having been rushed through Hell so he gets all the quests and has resists and hit points way over what a normal Level 18 character would have, having been Enchanted for 3000 points of Fire damage by an Enchantress (or a cheat like "Chantbot") who quickly enters, Enchants him and then leaves the game, not to mention being exquisitely decked out in specially bought dueling gear, e.g. Clegs or Bloodfist gloves, 6-socketed ethereal pikes, etc.] immediately throws a Town Portal and shows up at the stash chest near Fara. All players of the previous, co-op party type various things back and forth about what a loser the PK'er is.

(6.) Members of the original co-op party start sending uncomplimentary messages, such as "LEAVE YOU IDIOT", "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE" and "WTF???" to the putative PK'er. He replies with erudite commentary such as "STFU", "DUEL ME N00BZ", and "U HOMO PUSSYS AFRAID HEHE?".

(7.) This goes on, sometimes for as much as an hour, until (a) the original party squelches the PK'er and then create a private, password-protected game where they can try to pick up where they were when the PK'er dropped in, (b) the PK'er himself gets bored and heads off to ruin another game or (c) (very rarely) one of the party ventures somewhere outside the "safe" town area, immediately gets one- or two-shotted by the ultra-twinked PK'er, then all the rest of the original party, cursing and swearing at the PK'er, abandon the session and go who knows where.

The point is, none of the above even remotely resembles what a rational game designer would have imagined, when he or she decided to allow "non-consensual hostility". The theory of the "Hostile" button is that you will get an exciting, "last man standing" kind of duel in the wilderness, with everyone hunting everyone else; in practice, all that it accomplishes, in 99% of the cases that I have seen, is some jerk showing up and hitting the "Hostile" button, just so he can get a childish thrill in spoiling a co-operative Diablo quest for 5 or 6 other players.

This is immensely selfish, self-indulgent behavior, but judging from the responses I see on this Forum, evidently a lot of you think that it's just Jim-Dandy. I suppose that it may have some place in Softcore Diablo but in Hardcore, especially when you consider that without the basic Hostility option, TPPK would also be impossible, I think you would have a hard time convincing a neutral observer that the many negatives of this "feature" outweigh its very few "positives".

At least that's how I see it... but then, I'm not Blizzard, I'm just a guy that likes slaying evil monsters in my fantasy life, not strangers who I have no rational reason to want to murder.

Cheers

Mr. Bill



 
Re: to HC pks

Good point. Good point. :propeller:

"When I played D&D, I responded to Trolls with my sword. When I go to the Forums, I respond to Trolls with my pen. Relatively speaking, this counts as 'progress'."

:wink:

Mr. Bill



 
Re: to HC pks

... it has begun. (whips out his flame retardant helmet)

I'll tell you a story... when I was but a new player to D2 pre LOD, many years ago I liked to play necromancers, probably because I looked like one back then. One day, I had managed to make a necro that was fairly strong, I had umes which at the time was bad ***, and other good stuff. So I join this game, and this dude says, lets duel our golems, so I say OK! trusting as I was, I run out in Blood Moore and our golems start going at it... so maybe 10 seconds into it the guy blasts me with bone spirit and I die. Man was I ever disappointed...

aaanyway, here's how pking looks to me - an outsider. It looks like bullying, except you don't get to see the person that you're bullying. I think that's why people do it, if they got to see the disappointment, or face the possibility of retaliation they couldn't go through with it, afraid or ashamed, but in a game all you get is a few insults. Let's dissect D2 for a minute, it's appeal to a lot of people(not all) is to get decked out characters that breeze through everything, this creates an illusion of power to the gamer, game's obviously not real, but you feel powerful. That's where the escapism part lies, the illusion of power and strength, that lets you forget the everyday power impotence. Speaking from a male perspective, what is put in our heads by society is - have control & strength, life is usually far from that, so we play games that create the illusion of those. But killing monsters becomes boring and repetitive, you don't get quiet the same feeling anymore, so you decide to dominate other people to keep the illusion going.

So that's what I think... I'm open to criticism
 
Re: to HC pks

I'll tell you a story. Around 1.05, I was fooling around on europe because I was bored with USeast. I made a character, got decently high level, imbued a pike and got completely sick mods. IIRC, it was something like 124 dmg @ lv 16 w/ knockback. Now, in the 1.05 days, Jab (with a pike) was not the horribly slow terrible attack that it is today. It was fast. So I made a zon. I wasn't really into pvp at the time, so I was just out leveling when a random PK joins my game, parties up for a bit, then runs off ahead (presumably to the waypoint that I later found up there), and hostiles. I decide to see what this monster of a pike can do, and wait for him near a doorway (we were in the Halls of the Dead at the time). He comes through and I go to work on him. A few pots and attempts to free himself from the thrashing he's receiving later, and I've got myself a wonderful shiney new ear.

DON'T TRY TO TAKE THAT EAR AWAY FROM ME.

PKK is the best part of this game. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough legit PKs running around, so I'm more than happy to kill innocent bystanders until I find another PK.

~Trebol
 
Re: to HC pks

I think i have then ear of a char named fireblanket on my charger.

Seriously guys ...just go play sc. Dont have to worry about risk there.
You click the hc button ...then whine about what happens.


Oh ..and who the hell dies to a legit pk anyway? He hosts...u leave. Ive never been legit pked in 5-6 years of this. In 2 days i have 41 ears with a crappy 12 charger from people that keep playing when they are hostiled, a feature that is legit and built into the game. The 2-3 mins it sometimes takes to hunt people down should be enough time for even the most unskilled gamer to press esc and enter
 
Re: to HC pks

aye, that is what most people do. I do so enjoy ripping the ear off charger paladins. They are completely clueless. One tends to build a kicked sin for that, clvl 18, max block, and just stand, in walk mode, with the back against the wall. Since the kicksin is decked out with prubies exclusively, she has about 800-900 life, and she can take whatever them chargers throw at her. Then, one kicks, and kicks, and kicks, and kicks, untill an ear drops (presumably, the head was kicked to pieces), or the paladin chickens out.

Cookie for the sin, who can never be beat.


With a level 18 you should be preying on level 30-40s in Baalruns. I mean, I honestly feel depressed when I slay someone who's 10 levels below me, unless I use a pk with all shop-bought gear (i.e. 100 dam pike, 15 life belt, 15 ar gloves, 20% ias boots, that kind of stuff). I commonly hunted level 40's with my level 12-16's. Its way more challenge, and way more fun. At that point, although you commonly have as much life as they do and more damage, there's a serious disadvatage there in the form of a clvl diff % to hit penalty, plus chances are pretty big they can one or two-hit off you. Its about the same as duelling at your own clvl , both decked out.

If you really want to be pk-ing, dont care about honor or style, and jsut want to collect ears, use the following: 5 or 6 socket amazon bow, twitch or 3 socket armor, 3 sock mask, all carnage jools, deaths sash/gloves, angelics, max dex no life, life/dam charms... level to 18 with an amazone, get guided arrow, stick the rest into crit. This is a glass cannnon build that does about 100-150 pvp max per guided... two guideds will kill mostly anything under sub 20 that's not a werebear. If you want sicko you can also -NEF-... a tad cheesy, a tad less damage, but its really, really insulting that way.

Then, you join whatever runs and take WP's ASAP once you know where they are. If someone is on the minimap, fire away... they stand no chance whatsoever. O/c, since you have like 250 life, if someone puts up a fight you're dead. Still, I once managed to collect no less than 6 ears in under 20 seconds in a single game with this kind of build (the 7th got away *grins*). Styleless, clueless, and waaaaay more effective than any charger at taking out lowbies.

While I would agree with Baranor that Blizzard -- for some reason that's 99.9% incomprehensible not only to myself but my guess would be, a great many other Diablo II players -- did definitely and deliberately build a "non-consensual dueling" feature into the game (so, in that sense, you have to assume that the original D2 designers intentionally wanted "legit" PK'ing to be a possible game outcome), personally I think that all but a small number of the "legit" PK'ers are really only a slight bit better than the "illegit" TPPKers, whatever "right" to this practice they fancy themselves to have been granted by the game designers.

The most basic reason why "legit" PK'ing is, IMO, at best a marginally acceptable pastime, is that in 99% of the occasions where I have seen it done, the scenario is always like the following:

(1.) Group of (say) Level 14 to 20 characters are happily playing co-operative Hardcore Diablo, they're all in the same party, and they're trying (say) to do the Maggot Lair or Claw Viper Temple quests in Act 2.

(2.) Level 18-25 Paladin (really a Charge / Might build, but he lies about it and says, "oh noes, I'm just leveling doodz, gonna make a Zealot") joins game, types "pp" and gets invited to join the party.

(3.) He joins, for the sole reason of finding out where the other party members are.

(4.) Immediately he leaves the party and hits the "Hostile" button.

(5.) Everybody, at least the sane ones who know all about the "legit" PK tricks [like, say, having the supposedly Level 18 character having been rushed through Hell so he gets all the quests and has resists and hit points way over what a normal Level 18 character would have, having been Enchanted for 3000 points of Fire damage by an Enchantress (or a cheat like "Chantbot") who quickly enters, Enchants him and then leaves the game, not to mention being exquisitely decked out in specially bought dueling gear, e.g. Clegs or Bloodfist gloves, 6-socketed ethereal pikes, etc.] immediately throws a Town Portal and shows up at the stash chest near Fara. All players of the previous, co-op party type various things back and forth about what a loser the PK'er is.

(6.) Members of the original co-op party start sending uncomplimentary messages, such as "LEAVE YOU IDIOT", "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE" and "WTF???" to the putative PK'er. He replies with erudite commentary such as "STFU", "DUEL ME N00BZ", and "U HOMO PUSSYS AFRAID HEHE?".

(7.) This goes on, sometimes for as much as an hour, until (a) the original party squelches the PK'er and then create a private, password-protected game where they can try to pick up where they were when the PK'er dropped in, (b) the PK'er himself gets bored and heads off to ruin another game or (c) (very rarely) one of the party ventures somewhere outside the "safe" town area, immediately gets one- or two-shotted by the ultra-twinked PK'er, then all the rest of the original party, cursing and swearing at the PK'er, abandon the session and go who knows where.

The point is, none of the above even remotely resembles what a rational game designer would have imagined, when he or she decided to allow "non-consensual hostility". The theory of the "Hostile" button is that you will get an exciting, "last man standing" kind of duel in the wilderness, with everyone hunting everyone else; in practice, all that it accomplishes, in 99% of the cases that I have seen, is some jerk showing up and hitting the "Hostile" button, just so he can get a childish thrill in spoiling a co-operative Diablo quest for 5 or 6 other players.

This is immensely selfish, self-indulgent behavior, but judging from the responses I see on this Forum, evidently a lot of you think that it's just Jim-Dandy. I suppose that it may have some place in Softcore Diablo but in Hardcore, especially when you consider that without the basic Hostility option, TPPK would also be impossible, I think you would have a hard time convincing a neutral observer that the many negatives of this "feature" outweigh its very few "positives".

At least that's how I see it... but then, I'm not Blizzard, I'm just a guy that likes slaying evil monsters in my fantasy life, not strangers who I have no rational reason to want to murder.

Cheers

Mr. Bill



 
Re: to HC pks

"When I played D&D, I responded to Trolls with my sword. When I go to the Forums, I respond to Trolls with my pen. Relatively speaking, this counts as 'progress'."
... and as well all know, the pen is mightier than the sword :-)

DelBoy



 
Re: to HC pks

With a level 18 you should be preying on level 30-40s in Baalruns.

30s-40s, sure... if you're geared you've easily got the damage and life for it.. and geared doesn't mean 15s in all your jewels and charms either.
baal runs... that's a bit tricksier without being 21 ^^



 
Re: to HC pks

Ah come on... don't you like the challenge of a decked out party? I killed level 40's with my level 12's and 16's... its not easy, but they do die. My favorite target with my 16 chargerdin was level 42 bonenec tppk's... they ALWAYS overestimated themselves, turned off the chickenhack, and died...
 
Re: to HC pks

its called "tricksy bug abuse"... or rather, just WALKING THE ENTIRE END after a questing party kills the ancients.
 
Re: to HC pks

its called "tricksy bug abuse"... or rather, just WALKING THE ENTIRE END after a questing party kills the ancients.
This is possible? I shall have to give it a try tomorrow night, going to be leveling a singer with pally forge mules in the game.

I bet having a sub-21 hostile the run does a much better job of keeping people in the throne than someone who's obviously killed ancients.

PvM implications too, it'd allow for saving your tax free 50mil exp in hell till 98.

I assume you still can't take portals though?



 
Re: to HC pks

(7.) This goes on, sometimes for as much as an hour, until (a) the original party squelches the PK'er and then create a private, password-protected game where they can try to pick up where they were when the PK'er dropped in

That´s why I call PKs 'natural selection'. I need less than a minute to make that decision. :) If I hear the hostile sound, I open a TP, head to town and start evaluating my chances:
1. What class and level hostiled me?
2. Might he have outside help ( BO Barb / Enchantress )
3. How many 1k hits can I survive?
4. Is my belt filled with big purples?
5. What would I loose if I die?
In 90% I won´t like the outcome of my calculations, squelch him and continue playing in a password protected game, in 10% I will go out and try to teach him a lesson.



 
Re: to HC pks

Gah... of the run near me once I will know enough. Its in the way they walk.

@MouseWiz... it should be... well, you should party with a party that needs ancients, and then stand in town whilst they do said ancients, so you'll "get" the quest reward, that works I am sure because we did that on occasion. Once that's done its just a matter of walking down, and that'll be that.
 
Re: to HC pks

This is possible? I shall have to give it a try tomorrow night, going to be leveling a singer with pally forge mules in the game.

I bet having a sub-21 hostile the run does a much better job of keeping people in the throne than someone who's obviously killed ancients.

PvM implications too, it'd allow for saving your tax free 50mil exp in hell till 98.

I assume you still can't take portals though?

You can't get there. I tried earlier this season. The doorway appears to be open, but if you haven't completed the quest (even if someone else completed it in the same game), you can't go through... it says "I can't" or "Impossible" or whatever.

~Trebol



 
Re: to HC pks

well, IRC you have to stand in town, with someone in your party who needs the quest. It is possible, if need be.
 
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