crawlingdeadman1
New member
Your opponents having bugged/illegal items didn't stop you from PvPing in pubs on Bnet. You could LLD. I don't believe any of the bugged items would affect or be present in LLD.
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Why don't you PvP?
- Thread starter maxicek
- Start date
maareek
Member
I don't PvP because I don't find the concept interesting. If I want to pit myself against others I know of many formats I prefer.
As for items: the thing is improvements in D2 itemization are pretty marginal so even someone (nulio) with stashes full of insanely OP items (we call them nulio-tier) has only a small advantage over someone with even fairly basic gear. Think in terms of a curve, where if nulio characters rank as 100%, a fairly easy to gear up character in the current patch is probably around a 93%, and most people that play this game would probably be more in the 95-97% range. And the vast majority of that 3-7% delta lies in beta CtA and 1.07 Harlequin Crest - even a eth-bugged 1.07 BA base Grief and its like makes very, very little difference in comparative performance.
If you could compete with the same items, you can compete without; it's just a question of having the experience and understanding of the way things work to play. If you're new to PvP you're going to be food even if your gear is better than nulio's, because if gear were all that mattered everyone would just send excel sheets with their compiled stats and decide a winner based on those numbers. Also worth noting that while nulio is the undisputed king of items, he is not the king of PvP.
If you don't want to PvP because you don't want to lose, then don't bother playing because you are going to lose though not because of your gear. You will lose because the regular PvPers are very practiced and experienced in PvP. If you think it sounds interesting and want to give it a try, there's no reason to wait for better gear because it makes basically no difference to your performance and enjoyment. Find out if you like it first, then decide if you want to hunt for PvP gear.
As for items: the thing is improvements in D2 itemization are pretty marginal so even someone (nulio) with stashes full of insanely OP items (we call them nulio-tier) has only a small advantage over someone with even fairly basic gear. Think in terms of a curve, where if nulio characters rank as 100%, a fairly easy to gear up character in the current patch is probably around a 93%, and most people that play this game would probably be more in the 95-97% range. And the vast majority of that 3-7% delta lies in beta CtA and 1.07 Harlequin Crest - even a eth-bugged 1.07 BA base Grief and its like makes very, very little difference in comparative performance.
If you could compete with the same items, you can compete without; it's just a question of having the experience and understanding of the way things work to play. If you're new to PvP you're going to be food even if your gear is better than nulio's, because if gear were all that mattered everyone would just send excel sheets with their compiled stats and decide a winner based on those numbers. Also worth noting that while nulio is the undisputed king of items, he is not the king of PvP.
If you don't want to PvP because you don't want to lose, then don't bother playing because you are going to lose though not because of your gear. You will lose because the regular PvPers are very practiced and experienced in PvP. If you think it sounds interesting and want to give it a try, there's no reason to wait for better gear because it makes basically no difference to your performance and enjoyment. Find out if you like it first, then decide if you want to hunt for PvP gear.
JudgeHolden
New member
Sounds interesting, but alas my internet couldn't support it. My internet can barely support loading these forums. I live in a very, very isolated corner of the world. We have like 1994-level internet.
Plus, even if I had fast internet... I have no good gear. I don't mean that I don't have insane gear, I mean that I have essentially no gear, after recently restarting since I lost everything on my old laptop (my old gear was bad anyways).
Plus, even if I had fast internet... I have no good gear. I don't mean that I don't have insane gear, I mean that I have essentially no gear, after recently restarting since I lost everything on my old laptop (my old gear was bad anyways).
Loved last nights fights.
Those permastun anti elemental sins were hard to even touch let alone kill.
And yeah, you dont need any 07 items yo compete, you mostly need experience on what to gear on what character and why.
Just like yesterdays sins were a hard counter to my bliz es sorc.
Those permastun anti elemental sins were hard to even touch let alone kill.
And yeah, you dont need any 07 items yo compete, you mostly need experience on what to gear on what character and why.
Just like yesterdays sins were a hard counter to my bliz es sorc.
Against assassins you need to use some tricks for easier fight. For example with time you learn you can easily avoid Lightning Sentry just by walking around (instead of teleporting). If you teleport all the time, there is higher chance LS will hit you from the edge of the screen. But if you perform a short walk, all sentries will completely miss you.
Other more advanced and better trick is Weapon Switch trick or Weapon Switch Glitch as some call it.
Here is video of some guy demonstrating what that is and how it works:
How it works: you switch weapons fast and walk. Every time you switched weapons, hit recovery is reset. This means assassin will have much much harder time to stunlock you since you will be able to move. But you must WALK for it to work. I do that too when some assassin namelocks me and spams traps and mindblast. Just WSG out in a fine curve and you won't get stunlocked and with practice you will avoid all the damage as well (LS hits in straight line, so if you walk in slight curve, they will all miss you). Against WoF you just have to walk and it won't even start firing since check range of WoF is only 10 yards, and you have enough time to walk out of it before it starts shooting. Even if it starts shooting, you will be far enough to avoid damage from it.
If you don't try nor perform WSG, you will get stunlocked much more frequent. In fact, without it if you find yourself in trap field, it is gg. If you do WSG, then you can escape with limited damage taken, depending on situation. Sometimes trappers have hard time doing ANY damage if someone wsg-s out. Sometimes I got namelocked for almost 10 seconds by a trapper because it was dead end, and I wsg-ed my way out with taking maybe only 1-2 LS hits in the process. Without it would be gg pretty much.
Walking is very important technique against assassins to prevent stunlock. New players try to teleport out and that won't work. Why is teleport not working and walking is? Answer is in deeper mechanic I will try to explain. Every action in diablo has its action frame as well as execution frame. Casting frames are actually execution frames, when you do the complete casting of some spell, including actually casting the spell and backswing animation. For example 105 FCR sorc has what all know 8 frames cast rate. Those 8 frames are divided like this: action frame is 5 which means it takes only 5 frames for sorc to cast a spell, while last 3 frames are only backswing animation. That is total of 8 frames.
Apart from action frames, there are also hit recovery frames. All know what those are. 86 FHR sorc has 7 frames hit recover. This means when she is put to hit recovery, she is helpless for 7 frames. If we assume same sorc has 105 FCR aka 8 frames casting rate and 5 frames action frame, that means sorc which is put to hit recovery needs opening of 12 frames (7 for hit recovery and 5 for casting spell) to escape from stunlock.
If assassin is mindblasting you + traps are hitting you, it is fairly hard to find such window to escape with teleport. That's why player who tries to escape only with teleport is likely to get stunlocked to death.
Walking is different. It has 0 action frame. This means after 7 frames of hit recovery are up, sorc can walk any direction she wants. She can try to walk out of traps and will have easier time than trying to teleport. Also walking makes traps miss you since you are constantly moving. While you teleport, trap has higher chance of hitting you. Naturally, walking alone is not enough to get out of stunlock. But in combination of WSG and walking, assassins lose A LOT of stunlock potential. Actually it is nearly impossible to stunlock experienced player who learned to do such trick.
In a way, PvP is a "science" with big learning curve. Also yes, ES sorcs are in big disadvantage against trappers, but they can help themselves with wsg trick. Vita sorcs have easier time since they don't depend on ES which is slaughtered by few trap shots.
Other more advanced and better trick is Weapon Switch trick or Weapon Switch Glitch as some call it.
Here is video of some guy demonstrating what that is and how it works:
How it works: you switch weapons fast and walk. Every time you switched weapons, hit recovery is reset. This means assassin will have much much harder time to stunlock you since you will be able to move. But you must WALK for it to work. I do that too when some assassin namelocks me and spams traps and mindblast. Just WSG out in a fine curve and you won't get stunlocked and with practice you will avoid all the damage as well (LS hits in straight line, so if you walk in slight curve, they will all miss you). Against WoF you just have to walk and it won't even start firing since check range of WoF is only 10 yards, and you have enough time to walk out of it before it starts shooting. Even if it starts shooting, you will be far enough to avoid damage from it.
If you don't try nor perform WSG, you will get stunlocked much more frequent. In fact, without it if you find yourself in trap field, it is gg. If you do WSG, then you can escape with limited damage taken, depending on situation. Sometimes trappers have hard time doing ANY damage if someone wsg-s out. Sometimes I got namelocked for almost 10 seconds by a trapper because it was dead end, and I wsg-ed my way out with taking maybe only 1-2 LS hits in the process. Without it would be gg pretty much.
Walking is very important technique against assassins to prevent stunlock. New players try to teleport out and that won't work. Why is teleport not working and walking is? Answer is in deeper mechanic I will try to explain. Every action in diablo has its action frame as well as execution frame. Casting frames are actually execution frames, when you do the complete casting of some spell, including actually casting the spell and backswing animation. For example 105 FCR sorc has what all know 8 frames cast rate. Those 8 frames are divided like this: action frame is 5 which means it takes only 5 frames for sorc to cast a spell, while last 3 frames are only backswing animation. That is total of 8 frames.
Apart from action frames, there are also hit recovery frames. All know what those are. 86 FHR sorc has 7 frames hit recover. This means when she is put to hit recovery, she is helpless for 7 frames. If we assume same sorc has 105 FCR aka 8 frames casting rate and 5 frames action frame, that means sorc which is put to hit recovery needs opening of 12 frames (7 for hit recovery and 5 for casting spell) to escape from stunlock.
If assassin is mindblasting you + traps are hitting you, it is fairly hard to find such window to escape with teleport. That's why player who tries to escape only with teleport is likely to get stunlocked to death.
Walking is different. It has 0 action frame. This means after 7 frames of hit recovery are up, sorc can walk any direction she wants. She can try to walk out of traps and will have easier time than trying to teleport. Also walking makes traps miss you since you are constantly moving. While you teleport, trap has higher chance of hitting you. Naturally, walking alone is not enough to get out of stunlock. But in combination of WSG and walking, assassins lose A LOT of stunlock potential. Actually it is nearly impossible to stunlock experienced player who learned to do such trick.
In a way, PvP is a "science" with big learning curve. Also yes, ES sorcs are in big disadvantage against trappers, but they can help themselves with wsg trick. Vita sorcs have easier time since they don't depend on ES which is slaughtered by few trap shots.
The fire trap + mb got me alot. Lg trappers are less of a problem because i can usually dodge most of traps even witg teleports.
The fire trap ww sins are harder to avoid. Plus when they use fade and some cold resists, my sorc becomes a slab of meat.
I hope i can get my barb to a decent lvl in the next few days or my pala and maybe then i can deal with them.
The fire trap ww sins are harder to avoid. Plus when they use fade and some cold resists, my sorc becomes a slab of meat.
I hope i can get my barb to a decent lvl in the next few days or my pala and maybe then i can deal with them.
Idea is not only to avoid, but to survive. You will take some damage in the process, but maybe not lethal dose of it.
That's why I like fire trappers, their damage is hard to avoid. LS is easier to avoid, from times to times you can even circle around traps without taking damage. You can't do that with fire trapper since WoF has almost half screen width and goes for 2 screens in length. Only problem is WoF has 10 yards awareness range to even start firing. If you see wof at the edge of screen, it won't fire at you, while LS will since it has bigger awareness range. That's why sometimes you can at least try to get out of awareness range and to avoid damage.
That's why I like fire trappers, their damage is hard to avoid. LS is easier to avoid, from times to times you can even circle around traps without taking damage. You can't do that with fire trapper since WoF has almost half screen width and goes for 2 screens in length. Only problem is WoF has 10 yards awareness range to even start firing. If you see wof at the edge of screen, it won't fire at you, while LS will since it has bigger awareness range. That's why sometimes you can at least try to get out of awareness range and to avoid damage.
Those were happening mostly during first half of PvP. Second half seemed to be much better with random spikes, but no huge nor frequent ones. There was a part when lagspike of few seconds happened pretty much every FFA (according to video I recorded, one lasted for freaking 14 seconds), then they suddenly dropped in frequency and length. Dunno what caused that, could be just a bad day.
It's not the 14 seconds that are important, it's the couple of hours beforehand that are.
Items do not matter much, apart from OP beta CtA. I play a completely unoptimized character and still manage to kill almost everything apart from 1.07 hax Bowazons. I'm talking 4x3 empty inventory slots and Um rune sockets here.
@dOOmas I find Sins easiest to kill of all with a Blizzard sorc, but you really have to avoid stun-locks, so a lot more running away is needed.
To everyone bashing time-travel and atma-bugged items clearly have never PvP'd. They give you a slight edge, but by far not an unfair advantage. People have played years to get those, if you spend that much time in 1.13 you'd get 97% of that, maybe even 100% on certain builds if you just trade for a beta CtA.
@dOOmas I find Sins easiest to kill of all with a Blizzard sorc, but you really have to avoid stun-locks, so a lot more running away is needed.
To everyone bashing time-travel and atma-bugged items clearly have never PvP'd. They give you a slight edge, but by far not an unfair advantage. People have played years to get those, if you spend that much time in 1.13 you'd get 97% of that, maybe even 100% on certain builds if you just trade for a beta CtA.
thefranklin
Well-known member
I don't pvp because I started on bnet. If I felt the need for competition based on skill, I would play counterstrike or Halo. Nowadays I don't play counterstrike or Halo (no xbox live). I would be open to trying because you guys are all nice. I am US based and can really only play around this time or later, and frequently have to go do stuff with the kids as this is their bedtime.
LiquidClear
Member
If there end up being enough US based people, maybe someone could try hosting some time? Wishful thinking? 
Pyrohemia1
New member
I would drop in to a US host, but I don't know if any of my characters follow the new pvp rules.
thefranklin
Well-known member
Rules? Iths are allowed, right?
