Yes, for summoner u want to use both skillies and revive. What im saying is taht revive is stronger than skillies temporarly. Skillies die too fast after Act 4 hell so i think revive is a better tankers. This is even more obvious in pvp, where u take the most dmg in the game. All skillies will die in one-hit no matter how many +skill u have, while revive can take around 3-4 hits. (beside hammer, but then u can always grab some magic immune monster...)
Why are skeletons better than revives?
- Thread starter hkisbatman
- Start date
CalloftheHaunted
New member
I make a skellymancer to lvl 60...I maxed RS and SM. I had a couple of + to skills but the skellies only dmged like 190-195! Now hes a mule...I wondered how that thing could kill things in hell 
.
Im starting a poison/summoner now...The skellies dont damage much even with might and amplify...but they were GREAT tanks!
.Im starting a poison/summoner now...The skellies dont damage much even with might and amplify...but they were GREAT tanks!
You need +skills, Might and Amp Damage to get an effective killing force. Also, corpse explosion is a great skill for a Skelemancer.
Just to give you an example: I currently have Skeleton Mastery at lvl 39 and Raise Skeleton at lvl 37 (mages at 36). My merc is lvl 91 and getting +5 might levels from gear --- currently trying to get him an Andariels Visage to replace his Crown of Thieves for another +2 levels...
There are no runewords or overly expensive items on my Necromancer, except maybe for the anni (but I didn't trade for that... a Skelemancer can deal with dclone), but he has no problems anywhere. I play at least 2-player games, sometimes more... I'd say soloing 4 players is still not much of a problem.
Can't tell you what the skill tab says about the damage... never cared to check these numbers (and I'm at work...), since I know that adding skills to myself or the merc will raise my damage, and nothing else will...
EDIT: the "good thing" about a Skelemancer is that he ONLY kills with skills, nothing else matters. We need no FCR, no IAS, no attack rating, no CBF. Mana boosters are nice, but not needed. There are no things to socket into our gear to increase skeleton damage, and we can neglect blocking, defense and to some extent resists.
This allows comparatively cheap setups with high +skills.
Just to give you an example: I currently have Skeleton Mastery at lvl 39 and Raise Skeleton at lvl 37 (mages at 36). My merc is lvl 91 and getting +5 might levels from gear --- currently trying to get him an Andariels Visage to replace his Crown of Thieves for another +2 levels...
There are no runewords or overly expensive items on my Necromancer, except maybe for the anni (but I didn't trade for that... a Skelemancer can deal with dclone), but he has no problems anywhere. I play at least 2-player games, sometimes more... I'd say soloing 4 players is still not much of a problem.
Can't tell you what the skill tab says about the damage... never cared to check these numbers (and I'm at work...), since I know that adding skills to myself or the merc will raise my damage, and nothing else will...
EDIT: the "good thing" about a Skelemancer is that he ONLY kills with skills, nothing else matters. We need no FCR, no IAS, no attack rating, no CBF. Mana boosters are nice, but not needed. There are no things to socket into our gear to increase skeleton damage, and we can neglect blocking, defense and to some extent resists.
This allows comparatively cheap setups with high +skills.
CalloftheHaunted
New member
Nice! The next char im gonna make is a poison/summoner! I noticed that the skellies were so good tanks that 60 points in the poison tree can go wrong :thumbsup: Im just wondering... which build dishes out the most dmg? Venomancer/summoner (poison maxing is only 60 points so the rest in summoning) or pure Bonemancer? And which of them who are most effective in hell and PvP.
Necrochild313
New member
Another factor is that I don't believe that skeleton mastery effects the elemental damage of revives. That makes all but frenzytars and other out-of-the-way decent melee really, really crappy revives.
CalloftheHaunted
New member
True...I heard about this issue first in Fishymancer guid but I didnt understand why casted sucked...now I do^^ Its logical... :uhhuh:Necrochild313 said:
Revives = very inconvenient temporary but if well chosen excellent melee with loads of life, maybe crushing blow, maybe a cool strong ranged physical attack with elemental magic if there happen to be any of those within three and a half minutes of your game. Oh and you need Enigma or you have to shuffle around rather than run or you'll lose them all. The advantage of revives is that they can be very cheaply had with a few skill points and make a good meat shield and the big ones provide nice protection when teleporting.
Skeletons = very convenient, permanent 'til death very hard to kill (I don't get where this view of skellies as fragile is coming from), capable of extraordinary damage with elite equip follow you when they can, teleport when they can't.
I run Hell cows all the time with a build that isn't focused on the skeletons and sometimes I lose 1 or 2 when a bunch of nasty auras combine with amp damage, but otherwise I'm not seeing a contest here in terms of one or the other unless you don't have the 21-40 points to spend on skellies. If you've got Enigma and don't mind the excess prep time, I'm sure revives work great for quick runs, but as a permanent installment turn this guy upside down. :thumbsup:
Skeletons = very convenient, permanent 'til death very hard to kill (I don't get where this view of skellies as fragile is coming from), capable of extraordinary damage with elite equip follow you when they can, teleport when they can't.
I run Hell cows all the time with a build that isn't focused on the skeletons and sometimes I lose 1 or 2 when a bunch of nasty auras combine with amp damage, but otherwise I'm not seeing a contest here in terms of one or the other unless you don't have the 21-40 points to spend on skellies. If you've got Enigma and don't mind the excess prep time, I'm sure revives work great for quick runs, but as a permanent installment turn this guy upside down. :thumbsup:
Well okay then. Everybody who thinks skellies are weak take a look.
Mana cost: 39
Number of skeletons: 13
Damage: 415 - 418 (ø416.5)
Attack Rating: 1023
Defense: 1025
Hit Points: 4834
That's the stats of skeletons with Arm of King Leoric, a +2 all helmet, a +2 Necro or summoning Amulet, +1 Armor, and Homonculus. We're not even going crazy here. Now that might not be the kind of damage you'd hoped to see, but let's not forget about things like, Might, Concentrate from Pride, and switching over to Faith or Beast or the fact that there are 13 of them attacking all at once.
Now let's go really crazy and assume 5 summoning skillers, a +3 summoning circlet and +3 amulet, +3 armor, a +1 Splendor shield made from a head with +3SM/+3RS, and +3 all for a couple SoJs and an Arachnid's
Mana cost: 50
Number of skeletons: 17
Damage: 776 - 780 (ø778)
Attack Rating: 1353
Defense: 1355
Hit Points: 8382
Resist lightning/cold/fire: 65%
Mana cost: 39
Number of skeletons: 13
Damage: 415 - 418 (ø416.5)
Attack Rating: 1023
Defense: 1025
Hit Points: 4834
That's the stats of skeletons with Arm of King Leoric, a +2 all helmet, a +2 Necro or summoning Amulet, +1 Armor, and Homonculus. We're not even going crazy here. Now that might not be the kind of damage you'd hoped to see, but let's not forget about things like, Might, Concentrate from Pride, and switching over to Faith or Beast or the fact that there are 13 of them attacking all at once.
Now let's go really crazy and assume 5 summoning skillers, a +3 summoning circlet and +3 amulet, +3 armor, a +1 Splendor shield made from a head with +3SM/+3RS, and +3 all for a couple SoJs and an Arachnid's
Mana cost: 50
Number of skeletons: 17
Damage: 776 - 780 (ø778)
Attack Rating: 1353
Defense: 1355
Hit Points: 8382
Resist lightning/cold/fire: 65%
CalloftheHaunted said:I make a skellymancer to lvl 60...I maxed RS and SM. I had a couple of + to skills but the skellies only dmged like 190-195! Now hes a mule...I wondered how that thing could kill things in hell
Im starting a poison/summoner now...The skellies dont damage much even with might and amplify...but they were GREAT tanks!
Hehe, I know that feeling, even with 17 skellies doing 900 dmg each, I still find that they killing rate is rather slow. (im not saying they cant kill, just slow).
hmmmm dont know why ppl look up on summoners that high. Go PNB!
Pherdnut, a few questions:
Are both of your examples of the Skeletons' stats in Hell difficuly, and with one player in single player?
Are both assuming that Raise Skeleton and Skeletal Mastery are maxed?
[A tad off topic, but still pertinent] When you have a non-Necromancer skill (like Fanaticism) given to you by an item, will + skill items increase the granted skill's level? Example: if I had a Stone of Jordan and a Scepter that gave me level 9 Fanaticism, would my Fanaticism be level 10?
Muchos gracias.
Bigrob said:
Good luck reviving "obvilion nights". Let me know how you do it.
And if you don't have Enigma?
And to whoever said that thing about women: Hahahaha! Good one, hee hee! :lol:
I don't bother with Revives except on very rare occasions. Most of the time, if I Revive anything it's just for fun. Turn a corner and they're gone. I have level 38 Skeletons and Mastery, and I only lose them to Iron Maiden or, on occasion, to Amplify Damage & Fanaticism minion packs, although they weather such packs rather well due to their number (11 skeletons, 8 mages, Clay Golem and merc - I can make 14 skeletons and 11 mages, but after summoning I usually switch from Leoric & Homunculus to Gull & Rhyme) and the fact that when I see a group is so dangerous I start blasting with CE immediately. Between Clay Golem, Decrepify and cold mages, I don't usually lose a single skeleton or mage against Baal. If you tried killing a boss solely with Revives and they went poof, you'd be in trouble.
Naja said:
Ive played all three builds with twinking as much as I possibly could. The summoner can raise 17 skeles, maxed mastery (mastery at 49).
In one player game, most monsters die in 1-3 hits from the skelly. Its not weak, its not that great either, considering I have to sacrifice alot of items to achieve that (u cant use HOTO, shako needs resists (from um) etc)
Skeles are ok, but not that great when u really think about it. I prefer them to be meat shield coz i dont really like standing waiting monster to die one by one.
(someone else might come and bring the same issue of CE. yes i do use CE. (telling this in advance helps) its so common, im discussin the attack power of the skellys!)
bah
