What builds are NOT speed kills? Either IAS or FCR dependant? der=

[lextalionis]

What builds are NOT speed kills? Either IAS or FCR dependant?

Since most of the new runewords had little or no IAS on them, I thought that I would try to make a list of builds that didn't require FCR or IAS to use:

Elementalist Druid -- of course the often used Huntermentalist needs plenty of IAS, but I think the Huntermentalists got a new bow in the mix anyway, and they should be a fun new build to watch.

Poison Necro -- Who cares how fast you can cast Poison, its not like a second dose does anything anyway. So cast rate isn't that important.

Charger -- They have high vigor anyway, but IAS definately doesn't matter to them. WIth all that great base damage, maybe the new runewords will help these smoes out.

Frenzy Barb -- I'm not sure about this one, but I guess they get ridiculous IAS from their skills so they don't need any other IAS. I'm not sure if that's correct, but good for them if it is. They can get stronger, they weren't ruling the planet.

Frozen Orb -- The casting delay on this makes the skill pretty non-fcr dependant, however lots of people like to spam something inbetween volleys, so maybe that's not so true.

Poison Zon -- Well for the poison part no ias needed. Of course you want tons of IAS for your LF, so ehhh.

Rabies wolf -- I just put him on here to dispell him. Rabies is interuptible, without IAS you'll never get it off. Worse yet. Bane of all were=characters IAS only counts if its on your weapon. And you really have to look at what type of weapon it is (its base speed, too). And to think the darn thing disappears anyway, and you can even claw people to death with a Bow, but IAS matters.

Trappassin. Laying traps is IAS dependant, but its not a huge deal. Interestingly enough FCR may still be important since you have to cast Mindblast all the time to keep things in traps.

BladeFury. Now they certainly get a boost from items, I hope. Of course they already were horribly AR deprived. Maybe they'll use Conviction Mercs to help with that.

Spamming is a bigger part of the game than we'd like to admit. And speed is definately king of diablo...

 

[ilkori]

Over and over, I keep seeing criticism about the lack of IAS on these new runewords. I applaud you for this thread, lextalionis, you're about five miles ahead of most of the posters on the b.net boards. This is a modified rant from there, so don't take any cutting remarks personally. :lol:


Thanks to the brilliant and foreward thinking programmers, every class now has Fanaticism at their finger tips just for hauling around an Act 1 Mercenary. Do any of you realize how insane that is? In most cases, the 31-34 IAS from that skill will be more beneficial than the IAS on any of the other weapons in consideration. For any skill that uses the standard EIAS calculator, 34 IAS from Fanaticism is equivalent to 48 from other equipment. If you already have other sources of IAS, then it would take even more to make the same difference as the Fanaticism IAS.


Also, I predict the death of all attacks which are not auto-hit. Let's go Charged Strike, Smite, and Guided Arrow. The rest of the physical attacks are going to be screwed once people start using Fortitude weapons. Attack rating will be a thing of the past with Barbarians and Paladins being able to hit 60k defence without any eth-bugged equipment.

Frenzy Barb -- I'm not sure about this one, but I guess they get ridiculous IAS from their skills so they don't need any other IAS. I'm not sure if that's correct, but good for them if it is. They can get stronger, they weren't ruling the planet.

Frenzy Barbarians do not need any IAS from their secondary weapon. None, nada, zilch, zippo. Sure, it'll only be at 5 FPA, but with that kind of damage, who cares? The primary weapon usually needs at least some IAS (or both weapons need to be a fast base speed) to hit the fastest attack.

Poison Necro -- Who cares how fast you can cast Poison, its not like a second dose does anything anyway. So cast rate isn't that important.

Actually, re-application will give double damage on the frame it happens on. Doesn't do as much for the slow casting Necromancers, but it's still something.

Frozen Orb -- The casting delay on this makes the skill pretty non-fcr dependant, however lots of people like to spam something inbetween volleys, so maybe that's not so true.

FCR still affects the actual casting speed of Frozen Orb. Teleport speed is still important also.

 

[lextalionis]

Over and over, I keep seeing criticism about the lack of IAS on these new runewords. I applaud you for this thread, lextalionis, you're about five miles ahead of most of the posters on the b.net boards. This is a modified rant from there, so don't take any cutting remarks personally. :lol:

Thank you.

I was trying to get a quick list and put things in that even stretched it a bit.

With the advent of ENIGMA everyone (except zons) wanted fcr, to teleport faster so I just left that off.


My point was that every build isn't speed dependant... Just most. Of course I play mostly assassins who don't have any problems hitting IAS breakpoints and druids, that can only hit the best break points with tons of IAS on their weapon. The Rogue Merc will be no help to them.

But for many speed can be gotten from gloves and other sources, and for some rare builds you can just forget speed altogether -- Charge.

 

[jordy666]

a booyaka barb.
with a Destruction Collosus Sword coupled with a Dragon monarch and a Fortitude Armor
Lots of fireworks going off:
20% Chance To Cast Level 15 Chilling Armor when Struck
23% Chance To Cast Level 12 Volcano On Striking
5% Chance To Cast Level 23 Molten Boulder On Striking
100% Chance To Cast level 45 Meteor When You Die
15% Chance To Cast Level 22 Nova On Attack
20% Chance to Cast Level 18 Venom When Struck
12% Chance To Cast Level 15 Hydra On Striking

:king:

 

[lextalionis]

a booyaka barb.

I knew I forgot something. Those things are so fun to play. That jump stun is one of the least known facts in the game.

Now those fireworks won't be going off quickly, or too often, but the damage from a Flying Booyaka Barb will probably be insane.

 

[Vakarrona]

Summoners don't need IAS or FCR (not a must). Delayed elemental skills don't need fast cast but are there any sorcs without teleport?

Anyway, do you want everything? You rant new runewords lack speed... they don't lack many other bonuses, powerfull ones like fanacticism, res all, meditation, crushing blow, all stats and so on. Some rant the new runewords are overpowered with low rune cost and others rant they lack speed! Geez, can't you guys play things Blizzard create? Go for modding, you have sure the game is the way you like.

 

[lextalionis]

Geez, can't you guys play things Blizzard create? Go for modding, you have sure the game is the way you like.

Well, I'm trying to actually do exactly what you are saying. I'm trying to figure out which builds got the biggest boost with the new runewords. I was trying to think outside the box. I've already played most builds that can be played. But what I am trying to do is show that many builds don't need speed to kill. I'm a rationaliist. These weapons don't have speed, so I"m seeing who can use them.

Personally, I wanted a good fast weapon for Were-classes, but I'll lament that later. In the druid forum. I can lament the fact that no runes fit in claws, but I'll do that in the Assassin forum.

But I'm trying to be positive on the new runewords. This is my post being positive. Not me whining about no speed.

 

[Oversized_D2player]

Foh requires no fast cast or Ias either....

 

[Sokar Rostau]

I have to agree that I'm sick of hearing people say that these runewords are useless, based solely on the fact that they have no IAS (especially when if some of these r/w DID have IAS people would be whining about how overpowered they are), but you can't blame people that have an innate lack of creativity. Speed is not everything, it is desireable but not essential. I suspect that in some cases the "need" for speed is based solely upon instant gratification (that which leads to people rushing, botting and visiting eBay which in turn leads to complaints that the game is boring), received wisdom and a misunderstanding of the concept of varying playstyles dependant on different builds.

For the most part, IAS and FCR are only required for PvP, for quite obvious reasons, but the vast majority of players on B.Net play much, much more PvM. The argument (that IAS does more damage over time) becomes redundant when you see people, as I did in chat the other day, advocating the use of a 6 Shael Phase Blade over an Earthshifter for a Werebear. If that Phase Blade made your Werebear attack so fast the he looked like he was zealing then it would make some limited sense, but it doesn't. No matter how much IAS you have an Earthshifter (Min Avg dam 372.5) will ALWAYS do ten times the damage of a 6 Shael Phase Blade (Avg dam 33), especially after 183%ed from slvl 20 Werebear comes into play. And it is always far better to make a one hit kill than worrying about getting 10 hits in. But then the argument becomes "you cannot use an Earthshifter because then you can't have a shield and you will die." The lack of a shield is easily made up by Lycanthropy (115% life at slvl 20), Oak Sage (125% life) and Werebear (120% Defence and 50% Life).

These "useless" runewords will find their place once people start thinking creatively instead of attempting to just throw them on their existing lvl 90 characters. So they have no IAS and are less than ideal for PvP, who cares? The object of the game is PvM not PvP, which is a sideline event, as such Blizzard has no obligation to create items with PvP in mind. If you find the game so boring that PvP is the only thing "fun" left to do then stop rushing, stop botting, stop trading in duped items and stop visiting eBay. Those of us that have not ruined the game for ourselves can see the value of these "useless" items. Maybe those others will see it too one day.

 

[Dinkytoy]

I don't get what people mean about these runewords not having IAS or FCR ?


GRIEF - 30-40% IAS
OATH - 50% IAS

FORTITUDE - 25% FCR (weapon and/or shield)
SPIRIT - 25-35% FCR (weapon and/or shield)

 

[AffirmativeAction]

I have to agree that I'm sick of hearing people say that these runewords are useless, based solely on the fact that they have no IAS (especially when if some of these r/w DID have IAS people would be whining about how overpowered they are), but you can't blame people that have an innate lack of creativity. Speed is not everything, it is desireable but not essential. I suspect that in some cases the "need" for speed is based solely upon instant gratification (that which leads to people rushing, botting and visiting eBay which in turn leads to complaints that the game is boring), received wisdom and a misunderstanding of the concept of varying playstyles dependant on different builds.

For the most part, IAS and FCR are only required for PvP, for quite obvious reasons, but the vast majority of players on B.Net play much, much more PvM. The argument (that IAS does more damage over time) becomes redundant when you see people, as I did in chat the other day, advocating the use of a 6 Shael Phase Blade over an Earthshifter for a Werebear. If that Phase Blade made your Werebear attack so fast the he looked like he was zealing then it would make some limited sense, but it doesn't. No matter how much IAS you have an Earthshifter (Min Avg dam 372.5) will ALWAYS do ten times the damage of a 6 Shael Phase Blade (Avg dam 33), especially after 183%ed from slvl 20 Werebear comes into play. And it is always far better to make a one hit kill than worrying about getting 10 hits in. But then the argument becomes "you cannot use an Earthshifter because then you can't have a shield and you will die." The lack of a shield is easily made up by Lycanthropy (115% life at slvl 20), Oak Sage (125% life) and Werebear (120% Defence and 50% Life).

These "useless" runewords will find their place once people start thinking creatively instead of attempting to just throw them on their existing lvl 90 characters. So they have no IAS and are less than ideal for PvP, who cares? The object of the game is PvM not PvP, which is a sideline event, as such Blizzard has no obligation to create items with PvP in mind. If you find the game so boring that PvP is the only thing "fun" left to do then stop rushing, stop botting, stop trading in duped items and stop visiting eBay. Those of us that have not ruined the game for ourselves can see the value of these "useless" items. Maybe those others will see it too one day.

Well said Sokur.

Blizzard made the right choice by not adding IAS on some of the new rune words.
The side that says these new rune words suck because of the lack of ias are thinking of it in only pvp terms. Diablo2 is not about pvp, it is about pvm. Blizzard created these runewords with pvm in mind, and the middle priced rune words are great for people who do not have 10 of each jah, cham, and lo runes.
As for the runewords that give you every paladin aura and ctc everything, that is a whole other issue.

 

[ilkori]

I still wish they'd make just one polearm with 80-120 IAS on it. Finding rare ones that can get to that range and have other useful mods is nigh impossible.

 

[Pulio]

Couldn't a poison zon simply use guided arrow (on weapon switch of course) instead of LF? I'm unclear on why people don't do this, as I have never tried poison zons out myself... Since if you're using GA you do not indeed need ias (right?).

 

[Arg]

These "useless" runewords will find their place once people start thinking creatively instead of attempting to just throw them on their existing lvl 90 characters.

You mean, as a few people use their creativity to figure it out and everyone else just copies them, right?

I hate the fact that people can see my stuff with maphack.