Time to build a new character again, need help choosing. i

[Papasmurf90]

Time to build a new character again, need help choosing.

Hi,

I'm going to be building a new character soon and if any of you have read some of my threads before you probably know that I hate you average WW Barb or Blizzard Sorc and I like to try stuff that you don't see every day.

So far I have been looking at the:

- MA Zon
- Magezon
- Concentrate Barb
- Charged Boltress
- Lightning Sorc
- Shadow Walker
- Fireclaws Druid
- Fire Trapper

So, what do you think are the 3 best overall builds (In case I don't like the first choice even though I like most of these builds) and what would you say are the 3 least item dependent builds? Secondly, I want to make a char that is good at PvM but still pretty decent at PvP. If you feel that I missed a build, PLEASE tell me. Finally, if you have any tips/strats for one of the builds I listed please tell me.

Thank you!

 

[Gaza0469]

Hi,

I'm going to be building a new character soon and if any of you have read some of my threads before you probably know that I hate you average WW Barb or Blizzard Sorc and I like to try stuff that you don't see every day.

So far I have been looking at the:

- MA Zon
- Magezon
- Concentrate Barb
- Charged Boltress
- Lightning Sorc
- Shadow Walker

So, what do you think are the 3 best overall builds (In case I don't like the first choice even though I like most of these builds) and what would you say are the 3 least item dependent builds? Secondly, I want to make a char that is good at PvM but still pretty decent at PvP. If you feel that I missed a build, PLEASE tell me. Finally, if you have any tips/strats for one of the builds I listed please tell me.

Thank you!

Have a look at the Fire Druid Guide (its what Im going to build next)
http://www.purediablo.com/guides/news.php?id=541


In regards to the above :

Lightning Sorcs are not very good at PvP , everyone wears thundergods belt, have heaps of resistance, so its hard to dish out damage. Plus Static field is the best sorc secondary skill, so if u go lightning u r limited for what u can use as a back up skill --- so I would go Fire or Cold.

Magezon - I find them to be a bit weak in Hell - Like a weak version of a sorcerer, but thats my opinion.

Im not familiar with the other builds

 

[jordy666]

Lightning Sorcs are not very good at PvP , everyone wears thundergods belt, have heaps of resistance, so its hard to dish out damage. Plus Static field is the best sorc secondary skill, so if u go lightning u r limited for what u can use as a back up skill --- so I would go Fire or Cold.

:cheesy: lies
fun/effective/noncookie builds are IE:
firedruid
maulbear
Furywolf
zealbarb ^^
beserker
booyakabarb
strafer (witchyzon)
kicker
dragonflight sin
holy fire ranger
melee sorc
besorcer
Titan variants

-jordy :king:

 

[Gaza0469]

:cheesy: lies
fun/effective/noncookie builds are IE:
firedruid
maulbear
Furywolf
zealbarb ^^
beserker
booyakabarb
strafer (witchyzon)
kicker
dragonflight sin
holy fire ranger
melee sorc
besorcer
Titan variants

-jordy :king:

Do you disagree with Lightning Sorcs being less than effective at PvP?

Have you used one Jordy?

I have a level 89 Maxed out synergy Sorc, she is ok at PvP but far from perfect. Even with Facets to pump up damage and lower enemy resistance she is just not good enough versus other classes.

The most common lie on here regarding sorcs is IAS, everyone says u need IAS, this is a lie.

It was true back in 1.09 , but in 1.10 FAST CAST is what makes them cast faster.

I just find the damage can be very inconsistant, also I find playing sorcs in duals to be fairly hard, especially on the leagues where teleporting is a banned skill.

Fast WW barbs have a tendancy to overpower sorcs, unless you can get a few strong spells in, I find a Blizz sorc much easier to dual with.

Thunergods are a very common belt, and with the PvP damage reduction, Lightning doesnt seem as good as say other casters, i.e. Bone Necros.

At least with a Cold Sorc in PvP you can max out cold mastery and reduce the other players resistance, and having a facet or too helps in this.

Why would you say I am lying???? I have 4 Sorcs and have played them extensively.

Before you say someone is lying, you should state the facts , for example :

Lightning Sorcs are good in PvP because of ..... therefore, I disagree with Gaza's comment....

By just stating someone is lying without using any sort of argument, no offence, but thats just lame.

In regards to Sorc's secondary skill, A lightning sorc doesnt have many options, either enchant to boost her mercs damage, Glacial spike - but it doesnt do enough damage in Hell, and doest freeze long enough to help your Merc taking out LI's

At least going fire / cold you can use static field, knock boss'es down to 50% life for MF, and take down cold/fire immunes so your Merc can finish them off. Static field is cheap, easy to use, no synergies required.

The original poster said that they wanted a build for PvP and PvM, for PvM unless you always play with friends then a second skill is extremely beneficial, especially if you already have say +7-10 all skills, then adding 5 points to static field is a really cheap and viable option.

In regards to the rest of Jordy's post he has listed some very fun builds that are a lot rarer on BNet.

Notes :

Lightning at skill level 20 with all synergies 8-2514

17% skill damage cap

1-427 per bolt

thundergods can increase lightning resistance to 85%

1-64.05

with 20 lightning absorb

thats

1-44.05

...

pretty low hey?

I appreciate facets will increase this and the lightning could be say level 30 but this is just an example.

 

[BFD]

You want a rare build to try, try a medic and/or cleric. I'm currently playing one right now. It sure is interesting. I decided to max healing first, so I just finnished maxing prayer and holy bolt. I also went with a prayer merc, so needless to say life regeneration of everyone is pretty high with me using cleansing or meditation. I can't kill much but undead, but that's okay, they die quick. Merc and party have to kill the rest.

 

[jordy666]

Note that any damage you're doing is cut into 17% when doing PvP. That makes your lightning drop from about 6-38 000 to 1-6300. That's not too shabby, 3150 average damage per strike. Factor in that any decent player has maxed lightning resistance, so another 75% goes off of it. You'll be taking away nearly 800 actual hit points on average each time you hit! That's simply amazing…

Say somebody uses thundergods + guardian angel. 95% resistance and +20 absorb. You'll still take away (3150*(1-0,95)) - 40 = 115 hit points per hit on average. Though if you get a bad roll people will heal. On the other hand, with a good roll you still do decent damage. Thunderstorm or charged bolt will be absorbed by just thundergods though.

i rest my case
source

-jordy :king:

 

[Andy2702]

charge boltress all the way!

just for the fun.....:flip:

Cheerz,
Andy

 

[Laughing-Hydra]

Magezon? Charged Boltress? Who comes up with these stupid names, I want to strangle them. I have even heard necros that use bone skills called "Boners" :lol:

Anyway, Fury Druids are very item dependent. I have a lvl 75 fury druid, and he struggles around act 4-5 hell. But with windhammer, my fury is about 2000-2900, and with max fury (And a fast weapon), he attacks 5 times very quickly. With feral rage, he leeches health with every hit, so it works very nice.

My friend was rushing my druid through hell with his 81 ik barb. When we got to duriel, he got killed because he forgot his calls. I had a 908 defense gris armor at the time, so I thought i was dead meat. So i feral rage him to get the charge up, and just fury away. He could kill me in 4 hits, but i just kept leeching the health back to myself.

This also works in hordes of monsters. Just run in with a full feral rage charge, and go nuts with fury. The only time i need health potions is when i get hit with mana burn.

The thing you have to remember is, fury druids do not have good defense. My friends ik barb gets over 12k defense with his warcries, and i am farting around at 2038 defense.

But with a 4 frame 5 hit fury attack, plus stuff like gore riders (Anything with CB, or DS), you got a boss killer on your hands.

 

[Variable_Angel]

maybe a Frost Zealot?

 

[Gaza0469]

i rest my case
source

-jordy :king:

75% is not maxed lightning resistance.

Its possible to have 95% MAX resistance

You will notice that thundergods adds on 10% to max resistance

that means 85% not 75%.....

Not including things like Shako that reduce 10% of all damage, etc etc etc.

 

[Gaza0469]

i rest my case
source

-jordy :king:

JORDY

Did you even read the comments at the bottom of your SOURCE everyone has said that the post is outdated and only relates to 1.09....

2ND POINT :

That guide is specifically an item dependent guide to make the Chain Lightning Sorc that good, at the start the original poster said that he did not want an item dependent guide.

******************* From your source **************
Lightning Sorceress Guide
Author: Soepgroente Version: 1.10
Page 1


Soepgroente October 30 2004 10:54AM
Aeolus: I don't know where you got your information from but it's outdated, this used to be the case in 1.09 but in 1.10 it is definitely dependant on FCR.

***********************************************

 

[Papasmurf90]

Thanks for all of the replies. I can see why a lightning sorc wouldn't be the best for dueling.

So I think I've narrowed it down to:

- MA Zon
- Magezon
- Concentrate Barb
- Shadow Walker
- Fireclaws Druid
- Fire Trapper
- Maul Bear Druid
- Holy Fire Ranger (What the hell is a Holy Fire Ranger? I just picked it because the name sounded interesting...)
- Booyakabarb (Same thing as above...)

So which do you think would be the best PvM and PvP character overall? Right now if I had to choose three I would probably go with Magezon, Maul Bear Druid, or an MA Zon.

Thank you! Sorry for all the questions...

 

[Gaza0469]

i rest my case
source

-jordy :king:

JORDY

Did you even read the comments at the bottom of your SOURCE the very first comment is "where did you get your info from???"

Goto the PvP forum, they dont reccomend Lightnign only sorcs, Blizz Sorcs are the prefered dueling class, along with Fire Sorcs.

2ND POINT :

That guide is specifically an item dependent guide to make the Chain Lightning Sorc that good, at the start the original poster said that he did not want an item dependent build.

This is how damage is calculated for PVP

Source is DIRECT from the PvP forum....
http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=209788

In what order is damage calculated?
1. PvP penalty
2. Energy Shield/Bone Armor/Cyclone armor
3. Damage reduced by #* (Physical and/or magical)
4. Resistances and/or Physical damage reduced by %**
5. Absorb by %***
6. Absorb by #****

*Fixed number reduction like from a Sol rune in armor.
**Percent reduction like 30% from Shaftstop.
***Percent like 25% from Lightsaber.
****Fixed number like 20 lightning absorb on Thundergod's Vigor belt.


******************* From Jordy's Source *****
Lightning Sorceress Guide
Author: Soepgroente Version: 1.10
Page 1


Soepgroente October 30 2004 10:54AM
Aeolus: I don't know where you got your information from but it's outdated, this used to be the case in 1.09 but in 1.10 it is definitely dependant on FCR.

***********************************************

 

[Orphan]

Notes :

Lightning at skill level 20 with all synergies 8-2514

17% skill damage cap

1-427 per bolt

thundergods can increase lightning resistance to 85%

1-64.05

with 20 lightning absorb

thats

1-44.05

...

pretty low hey?

I appreciate facets will increase this and the lightning could be say level 30 but this is just an example.

Hmm, I had a lightning sorc on season one (not pvp, pvm). Now, my sorc had some +skills, but she was mostly decked out in MF gear, but I seem to remember her doing around 12,000 max damage with lightning (infact, she was one of my only characters that could comfortability kill hell lister, with minimal trouble). I'm not saying your wrong (season one was awhile ago), but can you confirm to me that at level 20, normal lightning only does 8-2514 damage, full synenergies?

 

[Papasmurf90]

Orphan - Don't forget the damage reduction in PvP, plus other player's resists and lightning absorb.

 

[Variable_Angel]

wow, orphan, could you possibly list those items?

I had a light sorc that was around 80ish with ful tals, and she was absolutely miserable with only 5 to 6k max damg

 

[Gaza0469]

Hmm, I had a lightning sorc on season one (not pvp, pvm). Now, my sorc had some +skills, but she was mostly decked out in MF gear, but I seem to remember her doing around 12,000 max damage with lightning (infact, she was one of my only characters that could comfortability kill hell lister, with minimal trouble). I'm not saying your wrong (season one was awhile ago), but can you confirm to me that at level 20, normal lightning only does 8-2514 damage, full synenergies?

I will run through all the Maths :

Ok, I am using the Arreat Summet for the facts :

http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/sorceress-lightning.shtml

Effect: Casts a bolt of lightning.

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Mana Cost 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12 13 13 14 14 15 15 16 16 17 17
Damage 1-43 1-51 1-60 1-69 1-77 1-86 1-95 1-103 1-116 1-129 1-142 1-155 1-168 1-181 1-194 1-207 1-228 1-250 1-272 1-293

Lightning Receives Bonuses From
Charged Bolt: +8% Lightning Damage Per Level
Nova: +8% Lightning Damage Per Level
Chain Lightning: +8% Lightning Damage Per Level

+ Also dont forget the Lightning Mastery

Passive Effect: Increases the damage of lightning spells.

Place points into Lightning Mastery to increase the damage of your Lightning Spells.

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Lightning Damage +% 50 62 74 86 98 110 122 134 146 158 170 182 194 206 218 230 242 254 266 278


OK, so a Level 20 Lightning Base will be 1-293
I will assume that each synergy is also 20 with actual hard points (synergies dont get any benefit from plus skills) A hard point is a point physically placed in the skill.

All Three synergies add 8% per level, thats 160% damage bonus from each synergy.

480% Bonus.

Add in Lightning Mastery 278% and the total Bonus is now 758%

Add this into the equation

Where Lightning Damage is (min Base*multiplication factor) to (Max Base*multiplication factor)

substitute the values in and you have :

Lightning Damage = (1*758%) - (293*758%)
=7.58 - 2514

There you have it

 

[Papasmurf90]

Sorry to put a damper on things, but could we please get back to topic? Thanks!

 

[jordy666]

Thanks for all of the replies. I can see why a lightning sorc wouldn't be the best for dueling.

So I think I've narrowed it down to:

- MA Zon
- Magezon
- Concentrate Barb
- Shadow Walker
- Fireclaws Druid
- Fire Trapper
- Maul Bear Druid
- Holy Fire Ranger (What the hell is a Holy Fire Ranger? I just picked it because the name sounded interesting...)
- Booyakabarb (Same thing as above...)

So which do you think would be the best PvM and PvP character overall? Right now if I had to choose three I would probably go with Magezon, Maul Bear Druid, or an MA Zon.

Thank you! Sorry for all the questions...

-holyfire ranger: A bow using paladin using either kuko skakuko or a demonmachine for its pierce + explosive arrows/bolts.
since the explosion carries the holy fire dmg and those explosive bolts always hit you could hit monsters twice and coupled with pierce you can cause some major explosions :flip:
- Booyakabarb: a leap attack using barb, with somesort of huge dmg 2 handed weapon/ botd thundermaul/warpike/steelpillar/Cranium Basher etc...

@Gaza0469:nice spam session.
And soepgroente(author of the guide) was replying to someone saying ias affected cast speed.

-jordy :king:

 

[Orphan]

@Gaza: Alright, now you've done it, I'm gonna remake my sorc to check this out. After season one ended, I deleted and remade the character (gotta keep the name ), so she's sittin at level 1, waiting for me to get around to her. I'm gonna start her again soon.

wow, orphan, could you possibly list those items?

I had a light sorc that was around 80ish with ful tals, and she was absolutely miserable with only 5 to 6k max damg

From what I remember, she had nothing special.. shako, naj's plate, occy, seraphs, rhyme. She also had a single +1 lightning skills GC and an anni. So I guess thats a total of +10? That might have taken it to the 12k damage range. I'm going to remake, because for some mystical reason, my memory seems to be under the impression that the lightning sorc was one of the more powerful of the 3 elements :scratch:

EDIT: miscouted my +skills......late night.....gonna stick with that story