THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

Oh sorry!

I really gotta learn the rules around here. I know where to look them up; I'll look them up. Sorry about that. The thread is going great though!!

Just a question, what's the process to get your guide stickied? Do you submit it for review to someone or something?
 
Updates!

Updates!!

Using a Kelpie Snare on your mercenary versus Baal is a great way to keep Baal from moving around alot and clobbering your merc. Testing with this item has proven very interesting.

The problem with this item is that it is meant more to keep the merc alive than to kill the Boss.

I find that maxing the damage and CB of the mercenary is a faster way to kill bosses with mercenaries. The only boss that takes my mercenary considerably more time to kill than a normal character is Hell Baal. My mercenary does however seem to kill Nightmare Baal VERY fast.

Hell Baal takes just a little to long for my mercenary still.:undecided:

Even though I've gotten the time down to about a minute to a minute and a half.



My experimenting with A5 mercenaries is still going well (current findings suggest that Last Wish (phase blade) Ethereal Sacred Armor Fortitude and Andariel's visage are most likely the best item set). However, I would REALLY appreciate some suggestions as to more damaging or more effective mercenary weapons.

Fortitude is (in my opinion) the BEST mercenary armor if you plan on having your mercenary kill for you.:thumbsup:

But, what's the best weapon? I'm curious as to what other people think about this...:scratch:



I would greatly appreciate your feedback on this!:wink:
 
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Check out my thread. I have some success for using upped eth hune sundan for hell councils. You can put more ED in the 3 sockets to get more damage. It has 45% build-in CB. Not bad for a cheap weapon.

Chien
 
I put out some advice here, since I saw you mention a few problems:

-merc survival against Andy; feed him antidote potions (you can even feed him a stack in advance so he has 85 poison resists)

-weapons; if you want to use a last wish on an A5 merc I would choose an ethereal Collossus Blade for good damage

-you found out that life leech is not needed for your merc to fight Baal, but actually it doesn't work. search the statistics forum for more info on this

-I think the real pro's from barb mf-ing are BO and Shout for the mercenary and Find Item, but you don't play into the Find Item card if you do Baal runs, because you cannot 'hork' Baal and in the throne room you have to be very fast due to the Corpse Explosion after each wave

Myself I chose to make my barb a goldfinder and to do mf-runs with low mf and high killing speed (infi wielding nova sorc), due to the high value of runes/white/grey items and those drops not benefitting from mf. Good luck with the guide.
 
callsignapollo said:
I really gotta learn the rules around here. I know where to look them up; I'll look them up. Sorry about that. The thread is going great though!!

Just a question, what's the process to get your guide stickied? Do you submit it for review to someone or something?
Click to expand...

It's a lot easier to get stickied now than it was in the past, since we just have a list thread, instead of giving each guide it's own stuck thread at the top.

Getting on there usually involves the guide becoming fairly well-respected/acclaimed by the forum community. After I get a few tells about a guide from non-author members suggesting it be added to the list, I usually institute the 2-week stick rule where it gets stuck by itself for evaluation. After which point - assuming it has not been contested/proven faulty during the 2-week eval period - it gets moved into the guide thread with the rest.

-Hal



 
Comments and Foreshadowing of NEWS to come!

Sounds great! Halciet! Well, I hope some people out there are trying my build out themselves because that's the best sort of feedback:scratch: and that's what I'll need to get stickied!

I intend to add three new sections to this thread. These will clarify and move forward some of the ideas in my guide. They're really three new sections to my guide!


-1 Alternative (cheaper) items and mercenary equipment selections.:jig:

-2 A lengthy list of hard data based on a specific set of items which I believe are optimal for this build. Charts etc...!:thumbsup:

-3 An extended strategies list and advice on how to use and make this build effectively.

-*4* Perhaps an entirely new Mercenary build that is compatible with this character strategy. (Depends how fast and fruitful my findings in this area progress)


-CallsignAPOLLO ~LightALEX~:evil:
 
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I'm Back!!

I'm back and resumed work on this very exciting build. I fully intend to make the updates I promised but I've encountered some setbacks. Anyway, I'm Back and I'm working on it once more!:thumbsup:
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

If you're working on an act5 merc, skip the phase blade and go right into collossal blades/swords that are eth. Weapons don't break on mercs remember and you'll have a HUGE damage increase compared to the Phase.

I really liked last wish/death/grief when I tried them. I never tested which killed faster or was stronger however. Would be a good little read if you could test those. I don't have access to those items anymore since they're NL and were given away :P
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

Great suggestions, I'll try to live up to your expectations and make things interesting.
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

I'm going to try this build, I have almost all the items, including a 40% MF ring, 3 warcry, 34% MF amulet and 120 mana/10 fcr ring. I'll let you know how it goes
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

I'm so glad after all my hard work that SOMEONE has finally stepped up and decided to try this build. I'm glad you're interested and I hope it works for you as it has for me!


The mercenary items are really key, remember that you've gotta make a character specifically as I outline in the build for it to work well. Tell me how it goes!

p.s Are you on east non-ladder?:thumbsup:
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

ok, so far, lvl 85:
Here's my gear:
Helm: IK with 2 ISTS= 88MF
Armor: Enigma or Skuldre's = 85 or 106
Belt: Goldwrap
Amulet: 3 warcrys 34 MF
Ring1: 120 Mana 10%
Ring2: 40% MF
Gloves: Chancies-27MF
Boots: Wartravelers - 49MF

Inventory:
40 Gheeds
5x 7%MF scs with Cold/fire/light res or 15mana
17/12 torch
14/19 anni

Switch: 2x HOTO's

Merc:
Infinity cryptic axe (thresher just couldn't be found) 326%ED
Eth Fortitude 3.5k Def
Eth Andariels 28 STR 10LL socketed with 15/40 jewel

I maxed shout, battle orders, iron skin. So far have put a little in speed, find item, natural res.

I have not finished my anya quests yet but both hotos give me 75% all res. My Merc is maxed in res for all but fire which is 46 at this time.

Right now, after BO I have 4674 life, 704 mana, 15.7k def.
My merc has 4453 life, 2333-9025 dmg, and 30.9k Def.

After a couple test runs here's what I've found:
Andy rapes my merc every time. Trav is difficult because of merc's low fire res, he's died there a few times. Runs are slow and it doesn't seem like that much of an improvement over my sorc's 340MF.

What can I do to make my merc survive? I know he needs a few more levels, and I need to do anya quests, but otherwise, how can he survive?
Am I missing anything gearwise? I think I'm following your guide fairly wel l
 
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Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

my opinion on this travesty of a build idea hasn't changed since the first iteration of this "guide".

superfluous, expensive and of highly dubious versatility. not to mention slow. successful MF runs are a combination of speed, survivability and %MF. having huge MF and low speed will result in fewer runs/time. fewer runs = less drop chance calculations = less stuff being found.

i think the following quote should be included in the opening part of this "guide"

uptoolayte said:
After a couple test runs here's what I've found:
Andy rapes my merc every time. Trav is difficult because of merc's low fire res, he's died there a few times. Runs are slow and it doesn't seem like that much of an improvement over my sorc's 340MF.
Click to expand...

enough said really.
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

I've got some good suggestions.

First off, Andy is a b**** for your merc to take on because of poison and lots of other enemies around. Try mephisto runs; that's really what this build is for.

Also, your merc level matters ALOT every level up i've seen massive improvements in my mercenary. Do you have a bunch of warcry skiller charms on you Barb? you're supposed to.

Also, make sure to BO your barb and use your barbs howl or whatever to weaken mephisto BEFORE you switch to your secondary mf weapons. Try using enigma for awhile until you get the hang of it. Make sure also that you're making the FCR breakpoint that i recommend for this build. Remember, BO helps ALOT another 10 or so levels from BAAL runs wouldn't hurt.

Your Merc needs to be at least a level or two over 90. Recheck my guide as well; are you sure you picked the might merc? Use your merc alot it's useful to get his aura going. If you do what I laid out you should be teleporting fast and your merc definitely shouldn't die from mephisto.

Also, try sacrificing a tiny bit of mf, arachnid mesh might not be a horrible idea, at least until you get a hang of the build.

Is your problem with teleporting speed or mana?

I'm actually not suprised the build isn't working for you yet, it's a really tough build and it works best for mephisto runs and requires a very specific strategy and itemset.

Try using a few less mf items until you get a hang of the build, like maybe use frostburn gloves for awhile if you need mana, or magefist if you need fcr and definitely lvl up your merc to at least like 92-93.

Can I show you my character on us east non-ladder so you can see exactly what im talking about? We can work on a time.. k??
 
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Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

My problem is neither mana or teleporting speed. Its killing speed. I tried doing a couple pit runs, which went well. Meph is not a problem, just takes a while to kill. I'll gain some more levels and see if it makes a difference to my merc.

I'm on USWest ladder, but I have a couple chars on USEast Non-Ladder. I'm usually online late at night/early morning. But I can check it out anytime before 3pm PST.
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

Sounds like the character is performing reasonably well for you. I haven't been on these forums for quite some time now; busy with college and work but I will try to add to this guide again, perhaps in late april.

-CallsignAPOLLO:thumbsup:
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

please dont bother....
 
Re: THE TYRANNICIDES: [revised] An outrageously expensive build for optimal MF-ing.

I just went through this entire thread and in neither it nor any other have I ever seen an actual comparison, relative or otherwise, between the killing speed of a specific character with a specific Better Item bonus and a Barbarian using a specific Find Item percentage with specific Better Item bonus.

IOW, given the percentages of the skill, how does it equate to killing speed with - and only with - regard to item drops, using FI on corpses that can be horked and drop items? This is important given the skill is irrelevent of the people in the game, and the more people means the more powerful that speed build needs to be, which means less Better Items bonuses (one would think to kill as fast and survive).

Would 53% FI on a Barb equate to two additional runs on another character with each having +105%FCR? That chart would be nice, especially given people are criticizing high-end BI builds Barbarians are known for. A link would be appreciated, Mephiztophelez, not that it's your responsibility. I'm also not criticizing you, since the entire point of horking is for non-bosses, whereas if you're going to hit Mephisto you'd be better off using a gawdly Frenzy or other insanely fast build that gets there and just kills him - no need for FI at all.

Worldstone Keep, high council, etc. are probably ideal for horkers, and that means an adjustment to the currently popular goldfinders is what's necessary. If the mercenary is the main killer, you need more than Battle Orders and Shout to support him, which is what War Cry and Leap are for.
 
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