The SPF Forum

I have one minor disagreement with TekkaZ
"The sole problem is that the ideal is gone. The forum has shifted away from this ideal to that of the battle.net mentality. That is being "item rich" or having the best builds"

Over the last couple of years, the 'item' quests have always been there. There's a reason people speak of the WF (anyone have news of waimea?), and I recall several MF-Olympics, and many a thread of 'omg, i just found!'. I agree that now we have to be careful of some of those 'finds', but in the majority, the type of threads seem similar. We've talked about uber chars, made fun of cheesy ones (of which many of the MF runners fall into that category), and discussed skills, etc. And yes, i can recall discussions about 'leet' speak, especially as I started one by asking 'what the heck was this person saying?' (someone else made that point)

also, there are a number of threads recently discussing making interesting chars, just on this page is one about a HC untwinked sept., with lots of good and interesting comments. On another point- we're not item and uber char dependant as some forums. head to the pally forum- Enigma or CoH or dueling? BotD for zerker, etc....many of the builds and posters assume that the super gear is owned by all- we know better here, and most people can answer pretty well 'hey, how can i help out my char without godly uber gear?'

I'm not saying you're doing this Tekka (since I said I was partially rebutting a statement of yours), but sometimes it seems that many members are starting to focus on the few bad postings, and ignoring the many good ones, or not giving credit for them at least. Even the 'bad' postings have been beneficial in some ways, raising awareness about trading issues, helping people learn how to identify hacks, etc, and just generally expressing the overall community belief in staying legit (even though we don't all agree on the definition sometimes, but that's another thread, and has been an interesting discussion).

I do agree that sometimes we get a flurry of bad posts, and there are a few more posts about editors, etc, but the response from the community have been overwhelmingly on the same note- i.e., not here (we differ on how much fire we put into our answers though- I'm thinking that some though are just people out to yank our collective chains, and we'd do better to ignore them completely).

so again, I still say Booyah! focus on the good things, and you'll see there are more of them than not.

cheers,
WJ
 
I think AE is generally right. A lot more people are coming than going, and it seems just RL is reason...other things take priority. I have a lot of free time since I've been sitting on my butt TAing and not researching (TA is a lot of work the way I do it, but not as much as full time research, stupid dishes to wash). Next year maybe I won't. So it goes.

This forum is still a great place to come and chew the fat. We have done some great research about runes, MFing, class builds...had only one PK incident I know about and less than a dozen suspected dupers (too bad the good ones won't get caught, but who knows).

Those new rune words are tempting but as long as you play legit, and it's pretty obvious when someone doesn't, especially when you mp with them, then don't worry. Trading is tough, and that's where the traders need to lay down the law among themselves. As for bragging with undue stuff, to quote Homer Simpson: Let the baby have his bottle.

We have great ideas here, are nice to newcomers, hardly flame...go to one of the b-net forums and try to find anything close to here. I'd be willing to beta lot of b-net people wish b-net was more like this place than the opposite.

Well, I've got an interview Friday. Wish me luck I guess. I hope to see you all mp'ing when I get all this work done.

Faf
 
I am sorry to say I disagree with you Lothric. You are a newcomer here at the SPF, while some of us have been forum members for years, and have seen this forum gone to seed. As I already said in my Goodbye post, this forum isn't what it used to be, and contrary to what some think, this forum will probably not get any better. However, you have some great members and a wise moderator, you can learn much from them. Good luck to this forum and I pray for a brighter future for you all.
 
~DarkChaos~ said:
I am sorry to say I disagree with you Lothric. You are a newcomer here at the SPF, while some of us have been forum members for years, and have seen this forum gone to seed. As I already said in my Goodbye post, this forum isn't what it used to be, and contrary to what some think, this forum will probably not get any better. However, you have some great members and a wise moderator, you can learn much from them. Good luck to this forum and I pray for a brighter future for you all.

Respectfully, i have to disagree. I may not have been here as long as some, (2years as opposed to those who came in from th beginning), and there are still lots of friendly people here, and i don't see a change in the quality of most. There are some things that are different, but different doesn't mean bad, as some people seem to want to indicate.

you have a right to your opinion, but i think you do a disservice to a lot of people. That saying, sorry to see another go. Hope you're successful in RL, and continue to have fun with D2 (if you're still playing).
 
~DarkChaos~ said:
I am sorry to say I disagree with you Lothric. You are a newcomer here at the SPF, while some of us have been forum members for years, and have seen this forum gone to seed. As I already said in my Goodbye post, this forum isn't what it used to be, and contrary to what some think, this forum will probably not get any better. However, you have some great members and a wise moderator, you can learn much from them. Good luck to this forum and I pray for a brighter future for you all.
This was an unnecessary post, DC. Yes, you're leaving because you don't like it here anymore, which is fine. Let us do what needs to be done for us to enjoy it. Sure, I'm a new guy too. I wasn't around for the blowup this summer. And I'm glad--that way, I don't have the angst to deal with. Again, I'm sorry you're leaving, and you will be missed, but discouraging us is hardly a way to help the problems that we have.

edit: beat to the punch by WJ. :p
 
~DarkChaos~ said:
I am sorry to say I disagree with you Lothric. You are a newcomer here at the SPF, while some of us have been forum members for years, and have seen this forum gone to seed. As I already said in my Goodbye post, this forum isn't what it used to be, and contrary to what some think, this forum will probably not get any better. However, you have some great members and a wise moderator, you can learn much from them. Good luck to this forum and I pray for a brighter future for you all.

Hi there DC. Nice to have you join us. :)

Firstly, I'm not as new as you make me out to be. I've been lurking here for almost a year now. Not as long as you oldies, but I'm not exactly so new that I haven't been able to watch things for at least a little while.

Secondly, you again mention the fact that things have gone downhill and I respect your view of course. The purpose of my point, however, was to find out exactly what has degenerated. As I said before, those of us who don't know exactly how things were before will never have any idea what the rest of you think is so wrong unless you can actually tell us exactly what that is. Saying "things are worse than they were before" is really vague and doesn't give us much to work with. Your response was very dramatic but it again failed to give anything specific as a reason - a blanket statement like yours is very easy to make.

If we knew what the problems were, we could at least determine whether it's something that needs to be fixed and how to fix it. I just find it a pity that a lot of the more experienced members are leaving. It's great having a constant influx of new blood, but it's nice when the old guard is there to provide a guiding hand.
 
Hey, the frequency of my spamming is as bad as yours, I just haven't been around as long! LordDeSeis has only been here a few days and he's catching me up already...
 
Milamber said:
Dammit, why does nobody mention the two Forum spammers - Strijdje and I?

Huff.
well, we used to think 'speak of the devil (spammer) and they shall appear' now we know...if you do not speak of the spam, it will find you anyway... :)

actually, it's probably because yours is friendly, and sometimes informational spam, and not greasy heavy hacker spam...
 
Perhaps I can help out Lothric by emphasizing this bit...

Lothric said:
Secondly, you again mention the fact that things have gone downhill and I respect your view of course. The purpose of my point, however, was to find out exactly what has degenerated. As I said before, those of us who don't know exactly how things were before will never have any idea what the rest of you think is so wrong unless you can actually tell us exactly what that is.

As has been pointed out, you see intro threads here just about daily. Once in a while, you see a goodbye thread. Often, those threads make shadowy references to the glory of times past, but willfully refuse to provide any details. Though I'm sure it's not the intention of the goodbye poster, I think this is rather off-putting to those of us who are new here. Did we do something wrong? Did we offend somebody? Are we not as imaginative/creative/fun/skilled as the sacred heroes of the SPF golden days? I know (at least I'm pretty sure) that this is not what is intended, but it leaves a bad impression nonetheless. On one hand, the SPF is very welcoming, what with the EMB, responses to the welcome threads, giveaways, etc. But there is a persistent subtext of disappointment that makes this forum look, to put it bluntly, rather elitist. This is really sad, because I don't think it's necessary - people here really are welcoming, not snobbish. Moreover, it's self-perpetuating - as Lothric pointed out, it's difficult for new members to join a community when they don't know exactly how it is they're supposed to act. Every veiled reference to the good old days only makes it that much harder for the community to improve itself.

To summarize: Drop the secrecy. If you see a problem, state it straight up or bring it to the moderator. If you want to see more narrative pieces, offbeat builds, or skill tourneys then do it - show us new members what it means to be a "good SPF member." Lead by example rather than disapproval.
 
TekkaZeroX said:
This forum is changing, because the old ideals leave with the "old guard" who have lost interest in the game. Their ideals and hopes have been replaced by the new generation. That can be good and that can be bad. The cheating aspect is really annoying and that is why I have been trading less and less at the trade thread. I don't fear the obvious cheaters as much as I do the real hackers and cheaters. They won't be caught, because they know what they are doing. That scares me and I think that is what scared most of the "old guard" away. The editors that are being made for Diablo II are now very sophisticated and allow for heinous acts of cheating.

That is the first reason I would say. However, there is another reason for this as well.

The SPF and its members have forgotten why we are all here. What we all have in common. It is because we wanted a haven away from the rampant cheating of Battle.net and a place to fellowship with others.

The sole problem is that the ideal is gone. The forum has shifted away from this ideal to that of the battle.net mentality. That is being "item rich" or having the best builds. As soon as people are honored for who they are and that items hold no bar then I think things will most definitely get better. The forum here should be enjoying others peoples company who share your same common interest... playing and enjoying Diablo. Every story is important, not just the findings of a rare rune or Tyrael's Might. In fact, I think the finding of those items is the least interesting. :)

People need to get over their egos that they are honored for having the 1337 items. It is ridiculous and I have a word why those people are here, but I would be banned for saying it. I have been guilty of this in the past.

I can tell you I don’t honor anyone with the uber items and I certainly don’t think I am a more important person for the many items that I have.


I SO agree with this post Tekka! You took the words right out of my mouth.
 
WhiskeyJack said:
well, we used to think 'speak of the devil (spammer) and they shall appear' now we know...if you do not speak of the spam, it will find you anyway... :)

actually, it's probably because yours is friendly, and sometimes informational spam, and not greasy heavy hacker spam...
Mmmmm, greasy heavy hacker SPAM w/sauce....MMmmmm

LOL

I really need to get some more informative posts happening...

<runs away to think, and think badly>
 
Well I'm gone for about a month now and all of a sudden SPF is rampant with hackers. I don't think there is actually more hacking than previously just a lot of paranoia :scared: . And as for me I didn't leave because the good ol' days were gone simply I was running out of things to do. I might start playing again in the future but for now I'm investing time in other activities.
 
I might as well voice my opinion on this as I have been here for a whil, or long enough rather.

I was here for what I am sure is part of the Golden SPF days that the long-term SPF'ers were talking about. Although I have a bad memory, and am not going to go into specifics about what I liked. I will say, though, that for me, it was the people here. All of them were willing to help, and were fun to talk with. I am not saying there is no one like that here now, but...I'm sorry, but I cant find the words for it right now.

I dont think the forums are going downhill. We are still getting new people, and we still have some of the older forumers (older as in longer term here). I still see Mat/Pat threads, story threads, and more weird builds then I can remember from before.

But I am not totally with it ight now, so that is all I will say right now. Most of what needed to be said has been.
 
Being a n00b myself I can't say whether anything has gone down compared to some time in the past. What I have seen is a group that generally treats people well, provides informative answers to questions and seeks to maintain a community. Overall, that's not so bad. A good bit better than average, I'd say.

I'm just here because I sense that the people in the SPF really enjoy the game. They know a lot about it and challenge themselves in interesting ways. I've never beaten NM and yet I'm try a Sept. Why? Because I was inspired by some of the others here who showed it was possible and because I can't think of a greater challenge in the game. Will I succeed? Probably not, but I'm having a great time trying.

Personally, I think this place is worth my time and I'm glad I'm here. Maybe I'll even learn enough to beat the game and be able to help others do the same.

Here's a toast to all that is good at the SPF. :drink:
 
Things change over time, hardly surprising given that these forums have been going for what, seven years? The SPF hasn't been here that whole time, IIRC, but over the years it's definitely changed... all we can do is try to steer that change for the better, and strive for a brighter future.

As long as there are questions I'll still be here of course. Right after I've finished FFX-2 :p
 
What it boils down to really, is that last year a whole of long-time forum members left at around the same time, while the 1.10 patch brought a large influx of new players into the forum.

If I have some regrets its that haven't got to know many of these newcomers as well as I should, and I think I've become a much less active member of this community as a result. But I'll continue to lurk in the background, and like Thrugg, step forward and offer advice when I think I have something useful to say.

The irony of the wishful thinking for "good old days" is that there only seem to be a handful of active posters from the pre-patch days left anyway.

Chris
 
The "old guard" still has it's oasis so no real reason to worry. Sure cheating here seems/is rampant (and I'll be the first to call out anybody whom I suspect, though I'm not here as much as I used to be)... but if you can ignore the item find thread and the trade thread their is plenty of good to be had here.

When I need to have dealings w/ people I trust, I have a place I can go... but this place is still great for pure D2 discussion. If ever people figure out that being "rich" in D2 terms isn't necessarily the cool way to be maybe trading and bragging here can get straitened out. Until then, you can all just chose to ignore that part of the forum and instead focus on all the good that is here.
 
As has been said before - as 1.10 is still relatively new, things take time to settle. I'd suggest to anyone leaving that they check the forum in 6-12 months time, when the cattle.netters have worked out a way of leeching so effective that they don't feel they NEED to ask us for cheats just to "test out their builds", when there are enough high level items around that they cease to be worth duping; in short, when everything gets back to normal. Whether that's the same normal as it was before the old guard left or not is yet to be seen. But it'll probably be more similar to that than this is.

People such as wildjinn, Milamber, LprMan, Stridje, farting bob, seem to be the "new" old guard... I have a lot of respect for them; [plug]in fact, see my upcoming thread [/plug], and in a way I think it's good that we have some change. The downside of that is that people feel that they have lost something that matters to them.

The only thing that I think could majorly improve this forum is... a bit more humour. There's lots of funny people here and it brightens up my day to see a bit of wit. So do it, people!
 
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