The only char class Im a newb with... look over my build?

[TheKbob]

The only char class Im a newb with... look over my build?

I have poked around some guides and such, all good reads.

I made a PS assassin a bit back, but lost interest because it's still basically a melee char and my Holy Freeze Paladin and Werewolf Druid fit those places both nicely.

So, I wanted to try a melee caster. First thought was a sorc, enchant and use orb, but I swore off sorcs all together.

Druid would just be another wolf that used Geddon or Hurricane and maybe rabies. Boring in my opinion.

Javazons... no.

So I decided, my account needed some assassin love.

I really like the Dragon tail build with tiger strike, but instead of going that + PS route, I was wondering how versatile the trapper hybrid route was. Let me share what I had in mind:

20 Tiger Strike
20 Dragon Tail
1 Dragon Flight
1 Cobra strike
1 BoS
1 MB
1 SM***
20 LS
20 DS
rest to charged bolt sentry

*** First question is should I even go for shadow master and just use prebuff to get her up a bit, or not waste the points. Also, would it be beneficial to get BoI for cold?

Gear:

This is what I have pretty much settled on:

Shako
Duress (Cant afford another CoH, so I thought Duress would be nice)
Draculs Grasp
Rare duped greaves upgraded to elite (forget what they are, but good)
Tgods (to get str to use the boots)
Dual Leech Ring
Ravenfrost
Maras or Highlords ***
Stormshield
Bartucs (?)

*** Which ammy?
(?) Best claw for build?


That's kinda my thoughts. Im not looking for uber ownage like my druid or paladin, just something to kick back and have fun with (though taking 8 years to kill some fallen in Hell isn't my idea of fun).

Merc Selection:

Either Act3 Cold Merc or Act3 Holy Freeze

If I go act3 cold merc, do + to skills help his attacks?


Thanks,
~Kbob

 

[ilkori]

First of all, this is one of the few assassin builds I have no experience with... but I've read the guides and can help you with some of your random questions.

1) Shadow Master is something that will die very fast in hell unless you have it at level 17+ (it gets the last piece of rare equipment at lvl 17)

2) +skills help all mercs... I'm not sure about +class skills (I'd go with holy freeze, but that's up to you)

3) Personally I'd go with 2x bartucs... but that's just me. SS will give you the DR and such, but two claws will speed you up and make you look cooler - but make you take more damage.

 

[TheKbob]

First of all, this is one of the few assassin builds I have no experience with... but I've read the guides and can help you with some of your random questions.

1) Shadow Master is something that will die very fast in hell unless you have it at level 17+ (it gets the last piece of rare equipment at lvl 17)

2) +skills help all mercs... I'm not sure about +class skills (I'd go with holy freeze, but that's up to you)

3) Personally I'd go with 2x bartucs... but that's just me. SS will give you the DR and such, but two claws will speed you up and make you look cooler - but make you take more damage.

I may leave off master then

I dunno which I will choose. Prob act2 Freezer

I did claw/claw, its ok, but I wouldnt have the points to boost Weapons block to my liking really. If its not 60, then its not working for me. I would have to max it and that isnt possible. Aslo, would have to use Jade as 2nd claw to make up for res loss. Not looking for that really.

Thank you for your input, any others?

~Kbob

 

[ilkori]

I made a PS assassin a bit back, but lost interest because it's still basically a melee char and my Holy Freeze Paladin and Werewolf Druid fit those places both nicely.

Just noticed this - DTail assassins are more like standard melee than Pheonix Strike. If you got bored with PS, then you'll fall asleep doing this.

 

[TheKbob]

PS assassin = too much counting and timing hits. I had a DT assassin back in the days of cows and loved it.

~Kbob

 

[DOC]

Since the beauty of most kickers is they require very little skill points to complete and only need myr greaves to do as much dmg as you can get. So a hybrid would be a very likely choice. Also, since Im too lazy to go to chippydip's, what trap dmg are you looking at here? Im hoping it will be enough. Also, I would go bartucs for the claw, there is nothing that it cant do...

 

[TheKbob]

Well I did tests on Shael`ed Bartucs with all my skills.

I get lvl8 BoS which gets me to 7fpa TS, which is max. Then DT is 9fpa with maras, so that is fine.

My traps would be lvl 27, and do 3-1936 or 15-9680 with 5 traps. I dont think that is too bad for a hybrid at all. They are there for support, so I think the fulfill their task, but I know nothing about in game with trappers.

I need Base 140 str and 140 dex to get me max block and enough str to use my myrm greaves. I should have max res in Hell, and about 200~ Base vit around lvl 81~.

Worst comes to worst, Ill pull off my CTA on zon that is growing a nice layer of dust for her.

Obviously Im not going for anything CH regulations because making an assassin to those standards is crazy and out the door.

Thoughts on this? Good... bad?

~Kbob

Edit: I will have 2x bartucs on switch for prebuffering and maybe trap laying. Is that affected by IAS or Cast rate again :scratch:

 

[xineiz]

man i was going to do the same thing you're doing but i was dumb and put 1 pt in BoI/PS/CoT/FoF and was plannin to max the first 3 ones... now i think its too late to go for traps ;p

w/e, your guild seems fine, i just think a shadow master would be very useful even not being lvl17.. just my 2 cents... keep up the good working

 

[TheKbob]

Silly me... traps laying is on the ias calc :lol:

I also used greater claws instead of talons... oops. I hit 7FPA TS, 8FPA DT, and 9FPA Traps. TS and traps are at max, and DT... bah its only one hit, I can deal with 8FPA.

What do you guys think on the trap dmg, though?

~Kbob

 

[Naliworld]

A TS/DTail Hybrid is possible, but very very tight in terms of skillpoints...as you've found out, you're looking at maybe 1k avg. damage per LS shot, plus or minus 100...against FI/PI groups, you'll have a pretty difficult time(and you'll be facing FIs very often). DTalon kickers make much better Hybrids IMO, a lot more extra points to spend in Traps.

A few equipment suggestions(changes in bold):
Shako
Leviathan/'LionHeart'/'Enigma' ('Duress' is a great runeword for DTalon'ers, but you won't be attacking fast enough for the chance-based mods to make that much of a difference. +STR and +skills are top priority here)
+2 MA rare/crafted gloves (the Life Tap on Dracul's simply won't trigger often enough with a 7 frame attack)
Shadow Dancers/Rare duped greaves upgraded to elite (forget what they are, but good)
String of Ears/Verdungoes/Credendum (you're going to need a pretty high STR for Kicks anyway, and there are more important mods you can get on a belt)
Dual Leech Ring
Ravenfrost
Mara's (you need the extra +skill a lot more. Besides, DS doesn't work on Kicks)
Bartucs/Jade Talons (forget about Shields with this build, you have to make sure you get as many +skills as possible)
Bartucs
Weapon switch:
Two +3 Trap claws

 

[TheKbob]

Interesting, Im kind of at a loss to lose my Stormshield. I was liking the idea of not having a Claw/Claw Assassin, hmm will think on this a bit.

Doing any of those changes wouldnt be hard except for armor. Enigmas dont seem to grow on trees for me anymore and Levi is ladder only. Lionheart is cheaper, but meh, I just like duress as an armor better.

Now what would be a Dtalon hybrid? I will go read some more guides and come back with what I have come up with.

Thanks
~Kbob

Edit: Read the guide an here are my thoughts.

:thumbsup:

Which one would be a more productive PvM, though. If I meet LI, im kinda screwed, PI, still suck too. With my other build, I would have gotten 3 types of damage. Here would be my setup for this build:

20 Dtalon
1 Df, BoS, Fade, WB, MB
20 DS
20 LS
20 in CBS or FB (?)

With 20 in CBS, my traps do 5-3149 each, but to do the same amount of damage if I do the FB route (3-1936). If I max FB, it would do 958-1183. It does increase the shots of my DS but... I dunno.

What about 10 in each.. My DS goes up to 8 shots and LS does 4-2511.

BTW, with all this, I would have lvl38 Dtalon if I went with Jade Talon as 2nd and I would have lvl36 Dtalon with stormshield. I dont have access to upgrade goes unfortunatly, but I would have 53% OW and 15% CB. I still think Tgods would be beneficial for at least this build.

So, in the end... which build would be more productive PvM or are they about the same?

 

[plant]

There is a great guide for a dtail/trapper.

http://www.purediablo.com/guides/news.php?id=546

I've already built 2 dtail/trappers, I just love 'em. Some of my experiences after playing with them:

items
- 2 bartucs are best imo, only alternative is jade talon for the resistances when u can't afford charms/high mara's/... in ladder 2, it'll take some time before I can equip 2 bartucs.
- Use upped goreriders, they have cb and lower str. requirement. Crushing blow REALLY makes dtail work. Baal and Meph are down in no time with around 40-50 cb. If you have 7 kicks, you cast cb about 3 times every sequence.
- I've tested both Lionheart and Duress. Duress really shines, it gives nice res too. I'm to poor for a CoH, I guess that one would be even better.
- I didn't use tgods but verdungos, for the %dr.
- I'd stick to the rest of the items you suggested in the first post. Draculs are great! Again, like cb, you'll cast life tap more frequently than you even need to. It's great for taking bosses out, just keep kicking/laying traps, you won't have to bother about potions.

skills
- On my second build, I invested more skillpoints in traps, around 55. Traps are your 'main' killing weapon in this build.
- Don't forget to invest one point in both Cloak and Mind Blast. They are excellent for crowd control.
- Investing in shadow master is worth the skill points (again, imo )
- Fade is a worthy alternative for BoS, it has a 'hidden' 1%dr per point. I have around 5 points in fade and BoS, casting fade when I encounter tougher opponents makes mee feel much better

Glad to see some interest in this build :thumbsup:

 

[TheKbob]

Alright, did more reading of the kick guide and more number crunching.

With 230 str and 200 dex (dont think those are too low are they?), my kicks will do 878-1410, or if 7 kicks, 6146-9870.

I cant figure out the IAS thing for the life of me. I will use Shael Bartucs with +42 IAS from my BoS. What frame rate kicks will that get me to?

I also read that if the monster is PI, then then there would be no dmg from Dtail. So basically, no fire dmg. I would still only be Light and Phys, which makes the Dtalon build stronger, I think.

Would it still be smart to go with 10 CBS and 10 FB or 20 into one of them?

How would my gear change? I still would like to use a shield because I dont see 2 more skill points in either my Shadow skills or MA skills helping a whole lot. I would use Jade talon because finding res esle where would be a pain.

w/o shield or talon, res would be (30 + 29 +15 + 15 +12 +15)=116, or 16 all in Hell. I would prob have max cold do to duress and boots, 50 light and 50 fire or so.

Hmmm, what about going 2nd Bartucs, but with a +8 str, +13 Res all jewel. Hmmm. 8 more str and 13 more res all brings me to 29 Base res in hell.

29 +(30+ 40 cold) = MAX
29 + (40 Light) = 69 Light
29 + (43 Fire) = 73 Fire
29 Psn Res

~Kbob

 

[TheKbob]

Upped Gores arent going to cut it for me. They are a tad costly on non lad. My only Lad chars being my Necro and Fire Element druid ( ), so Upped Gores would cost me a fair share to get on non, so Ill sitck with my Rare boots:

Rune Slippers
Myrm. Greaves
30% R/w
+12 Str
+8 Dex
40% Cold Res
40% Light Res
43% Fire Res

No CB sadly, but the other mods make up for me using a 2nd Bartucs (res mainly).

OK I think I have got it.

20 Dtalon
20 DS
20 LS
20 CBS
1 in all Shadows but Venom

Gear:
Shako
Duress
Draculs
Rune Slippers
Tgods (I like it too much to go with 13% more DR)
Viper Whorl (old school leecher, dupe yes, but this is PvM)
Ravenfrost
Maras
2x Bartucs (On Hand: Shael, Off Hand: +13 Res all/+8 str Jewel)

8xMA Charm
1x Anni
mixture of res and life charms.

Kick Dmg: 900-1400 ~ @ 7 Kicks
Kick Speed: Help me with this
LS Damage: 5-3611
DS Shots: 5
Weapons Block: 50%
Res: Hopefully max or close to it Fire, Light, and Cold

Completion Level: 82

Any final comments? I want to say thank you all for your help and designing this assassin was quite fun. I love numbers :drool:

Edit1: I decided on not doing the FB thing for more DS shots. I like having more dmg from my LS. If need be, just recast DS seeing that no switch is really necessary.

Edit2: I will also drop a point in TS. with one point in it, it is lvl 20 :lol: So I can have Both builds :uhhuh:

~Kbob

 

[plant]

Heh, now I see in your previous post that you don't have acces to upped goes... damn what a shame I gave mine from ladder 1 away.

I also read that if the monster is PI, then then there would be no dmg from Dtail. So basically, no fire dmg. I would still only be Light and Phys, which makes the Dtalon build stronger, I think.

Would it still be smart to go with 10 CBS and 10 FB or 20 into one of them?

I only have lightning traps an dtail, the one time I encounter a boss that's immune to both, I get rid of it a bit slower with the CE fire damage from DS. Rare situation, though.

How would my gear change? I still would like to use a shield because I dont see 2 more skill points in either my Shadow skills or MA skills helping a whole lot. I would use Jade talon because finding res esle where would be a pain.

Don't forget that using 2nd claw as a shield is quite addictive. U'll notice that it can block almost everything and you'll stick to it. Jade talon is a fine claw.

Hmmm, what about going 2nd Bartucs, but with a +8 str, +13 Res all jewel. Hmmm. 8 more str and 13 more res all brings me to 29 Base res in hell.

Surprises me I forgot to mention that in my prev post. I did that in first ladder season. 13 res to all jewel, no strength though. Nice find!

 

[jrichard]

Just to be contrary, before you give up on Dtail for a hybrid think of using it without TS. I've found that it can work great all on its own. That saves 19 pts. I do make Dtail hybrids and think they are great. The build looks something like this:

MA tree:
1 TS
1 Dtalon
1 CS
1 Dclaw
20 Dtail
1 Dflight
You can still use TS if you want to, with dual 'tucs on and decent +skills, it'll have a decent enough chance to hit for occasional use.
25 pts total

Shadow tree:
1 CM
1 PH
1 BoS
1 WB
1 CoS
1 Fade
1 Swarrior
1 MB
1 Venom
~8 SM, you want to cast her at level 18. 8 pts invested figures 10 skills from gear, 6 from shadow claws, two from the ammy and two from a helm. If you can get more +shadow skills, less is needed to be invested. The single pt into venom is for leveling. It helps to deal with PIs and FIs until the traps are up to par.
17 pts total

Traps tree:
1 FB
1 SWeb
1 Blade sentinel
1 WoF
1 CBS
1 Blade fury, I always like to have a ranged option
20 LS
20 DS
46 pts for the base traps build

Thats 87 pts in total. Whatever you get after that goes to CBS or SWeb, your choice. If you wanted to drop venom and Bfury, you'd have 4 more pts to spend on synergies for your traps

The gear:
Dual 'tucs are a must Str, Dex, AR, -30 WSM and +skills are just too much to pass up. A pair of +3 shadow claws on switch.

Of the armors mentioned, lionheart is the best for a dtailer imo. Although plant is saying Dtail, i think he is talking Dtalon.

The IK gloves and belt are the best choice for kickers imo. Massive str bonus, dex, and IAS are hard to beat.

Whatever mymidon greaves you can come up with. Your up'd rares look nice, a pair of shadow dancers are also good, dex and 2 to shadow skills would give two more pts for traps seeing as how you could reduce what you're putting into Smaster.

Ravenfrost and your dual leech for rings with mara's for the ammy.

If you have some skill charms, i like 2 of each further reducing your investment into SM and boosting both traps and Dtail.

This build, with the right leveling equipment and using shadow dancers, can be done with no pts given to dex. It takes a fair number of dex charms to get to the level where you can equip the boots, but it can be done.

I like to build this 'sin with very high str. I'll get her to over 300 or 400 str counting gear depending on just how much of a titan i want to build. 300 is pretty much as low as i like her str to sit at, though.

As to your kicking speed question, 46 EIAS takes Dtalon to a 7/3 kick. You won't get faster than that.

jrichard

 

[plant]

Although plant is saying Dtail, i think he is talking Dtalon.

Uh oh damn you're right Sure I'm ashamed.
So eh forget what I said about Dtail :lol: Dtalon/trap is imo a great hybrid. Everything I posted here was about that build. Now I understand some things that were written here a lot better.

Anyway, seems like I'll have to try Dtail hybrid too... then we'll speak again
:bow:

 

[TheKbob]

Both make me wonder, but I still feel as Nali pointed out, that Dtail/Trap is a VERY hard squeeze on points. It is good to see that there are a few number crunchers out there like me.

For the gear I have at hand, I think I still want to go Dtalon. Dtail can still be used for fun, and with TS and Dtail both at slvl20 with my Gear, I will still do a nice whopping amount for just a 1 pnt investment.

IK Set... hmmm. With a Dtalon assassin, though, the OW and Lifetap are also very hard to let go of. With that setup, I can have +34 str, and have +20 vit.

I do have some ideas off your work, jrich, mainly about SM and what to do with str. With one point in BF, you wont be cooking off too much dmg I imagine, so that's not for me. I have been thinking of one pnt in WoF if i ever want to duel so I can get stun action in while I kick.

As for Skill charms, I mainly have like 15 MA sitting around, so Im using 8 so I can have Cube and TP tome in my inventory.

So much to do with assassins, that's why I never really played em much. I do like the idea of Dtalon//Trapper better than the Dtail/trapper, I hope I dont hurt your feelings after you invested that much time into helping me. I would just much rather have a stronger set of traps with my melee support. I will have to rework my str and such, though.

~Kbob

Edit: on Speed, I know that 7/2 is fastest, so 7/3 is just fine. I settle for much slower frame rates on my druid, but usually is means him just switching between BotDs.

Would it be wise to go with more str for Dtalon build too?

 

[jrichard]

On the speed, 7/3 is the fastest Dtalon can go. It can't reach 7/2 at all. With the dual 'tucs (WSM of -30), you need 46 ias on gear to hit 7/3 with no BoS. With level 1 BoS, the IAS needed drops to 14, level 2 drops it to 8, level 3 drops it to 4, and no IAS is needed with Dtalon when using dual 'tucs and running level 4 or more BoS.

jrichard

 

[Naliworld]

TheKBob: Actually, IMO, assuming you're going the DTalon/Trap build, BFury is a very useful one-pointer. It transfers much of the mods you'll usually be relying on for DTalon to do damage(Crushing Blow, Open Wounds, etc.), so it's a bit like a ranged version of DTalon(except without the good base Physical damage, and being slower), for use against monsters you just don't want to go toe-to-toe with(eg. that Conviction PI/LEB boss that your LS is taking a long time to deal with could be helped with a little CB from BFury).

Going with a DTail/Trap build, though, you're right, BFury isn't as useful.

I noticed you were aiming for around 230 STR and 200 DEX. I'm not sure if that's referring to a C/Cer or C/Ser, but if it's for a C/Cer, I'd highly suggest you keep DEX as low as possible, and divert the points into either STR or VIT. DEX has no real value to a C/Cer, as STR increases Kick damage a lot more than DEX, and Kicks themselves have no AR problems.

On the same topic of stats, it would pay to decide early on what type of DTalon'er you want to be: Titan-style(heavy emphasis on +STR and 300+ STR, as JRichard suggested) or Auxillary Mod-style(keep STR to a max of around 200 or below, give priority to CB/OW rather than +STR).

Here's a non-exhaustive list of pros and cons between the two:

Titans:
-Heavy damage, regardless of maximum monster HP (this would allow you to keep yourself in melee for a minimal time, so there's a smaller window for monsters to strike back should CoS expire at the wrong time)
-Very fragile (heavy dependence on PDR/Resists and good use of CoS/MB/SM. Prior experience with DTalon in general is helpful)
-Equipment requirements are not an issue
-Due to dependance on CoS, Curses are out of the question (no Life Tap, Amp Damage, etc. You need the monsters to stay still...if they're aware of your presence at any time, things won't go well at all)

Auxillary Mod:
-Actual damage quite low (you'll kill bosses with ease, but struggle with the actual minions. Could cause problems with aura-enchanted/Extra Strong/Fast minions, as you'll have to take a longer time to deal with them, which means a larger window for them to strike back)
-Some heavy number crunching required to keep STR balanced enough with VIT (limits your equipment choices somewhat)
-Curses are encouraged (your higher life means you can still use it as a buffer somewhat, unlike a Titan build which can get swatted down easily if you're not careful. CoS more important, but not absolutely essential)
-Can use BFury as a ranged attack (due to high CB/OW)

If you're wondering if there's a middle ground between the two types, not really. CB/OW only work well if they're above 75%, and STR-wise, you need to go above 300 STR for there to be a truly pronounced difference in Kick damage...putting a few more points in STR above 200 with an Auxillary-type build will only waste life. There's always the possibillity of a sweet-spot between the two being found(especially with those 23 new runewords hanging in the air), but I can't seem to find it. :/

Equipment choice heavily depends on which type of DTalon'er you'll go with...