SvS Which build is strongest?

Half of a duel is how not to get hit. The point of ES is to take the bulk of the damage so you can survive with more hp. Sure FB and Lightning might take your mana down fast, but blizz and orb really are not a problem. They are based on lowering your resistance, not on pure damage.

I don't see how you get hit by more than one spam shot without regenerating mana, considering that spam is usually in random directions. And it's not like you'll survive a good namelock from an fb sorc either way. So the one situation in which you won't regenerate mana is when you're namelocked, in which case you'd be dead, ES or no ES.
 
Neuroff said:
Half of a duel is how not to get hit. The point of ES is to take the bulk of the damage so you can survive with more hp. Sure FB and Lightning might take your mana down fast, but blizz and orb really are not a problem. They are based on lowering your resistance, not on pure damage.

I don't see how you get hit by more than one spam shot without regenerating mana, considering that spam is usually in random directions. And it's not like you'll survive a good namelock from an fb sorc either way. So the one situation in which you won't regenerate mana is when you're namelocked, in which case you'd be dead, ES or no ES.
Click to expand...

Orbers not a problem? They are one of the best SvS if played correctly. One orb will tear down ES quickly with many shards.

If you don't see how you can get hit by more than one shot. Try dueling a 200%fcr fber, orber or agressive light sorc.

Btw you ever tried vita for SvS?
 
I've been doing SvS for a while with a 117 FCR Light Sorc and a 200 FCR FB Sorc, and I haven't had much trouble with orbers. You have the range advantage and Orb is easily dodged when you play defensively enough. I've dueled many 200 FCR FBers and Light Sorcs, and if you actually want to regenerate mana, it's pretty easy to do.

I actually haven't made a vita for SvS, but I also don't use 95% ES because I don't really see the point. The only way you can have enough mana to support that is if you're on East NL and use an inventory of 70/15's, which I'd have to say is just stupid. Also, ES Sorcs are much better against Bone Necs, and I'd rather not have to lose to one when I could easily beat it using ES.
 
Neuroff said:
I've been doing SvS for a while with a 117 FCR Light Sorc and a 200 FCR FB Sorc, and I haven't had much trouble with orbers. You have the range advantage and Orb is easily dodged when you play defensively enough. I've dueled many 200 FCR FBers and Light Sorcs, and if you actually want to regenerate mana, it's pretty easy to do.

I actually haven't made a vita for SvS, but I also don't use 95% ES because I don't really see the point. The only way you can have enough mana to support that is if you're on East NL and use an inventory of 70/15's, which I'd have to say is just stupid. Also, ES Sorcs are much better against Bone Necs, and I'd rather not have to lose to one when I could easily beat it using ES.
Click to expand...

in SvS duels, you play defensive, your opponent will just rush you. No time for you to camp in a corner regenerating mana or potting mana pots. Also if you play defensive, 200%fcr orber can easily out match you in tele. Since their orb covers most of the screen, you gotta be pretty far off their screen and constantly teleing, which means you'll rarely get any offense done.

In any SvS duels, everything is in close counters, no time to hide or dodge. You're bound to get hit.

Yes no doubt ES > vita vs. bone necro. But this is SvS.

What realm you on? I know quite a bit of top SvS people on us east nl if you wanna try a few duels.

Also spamming randomly in SvS can be a tactic, 200%fcr tele can be rather confusing sometime and might land in a field of attacks. Also ifb are also good to spam.
 
RetroStar said:
in SvS duels, you play defensive, your opponent will just rush you. No time for you to camp in a corner regenerating mana or potting mana pots. Also if you play defensive, 200%fcr orber can easily out match you in tele. Since their orb covers most of the screen, you gotta be pretty far off their screen and constantly teleing, which means you'll rarely get any offense done.

In any SvS duels, everything is in close counters, no time to hide or dodge. You're bound to get hit.

Yes no doubt ES > vita vs. bone necro. But this is SvS.

What realm you on? I know quite a bit of top SvS people on us east nl if you wanna try a few duels.

Also spamming randomly in SvS can be a tactic, 200%fcr tele can be rather confusing sometime and might land in a field of attacks. Also ifb are also good to spam.
Click to expand...
How is an orber gonna outmatch you in tele? You tele at the same speed and there plenty of time to tele away if you see them start to cast an orb.

I don't see why you don't think you can regenerate mana if you want to. All you have to do is tele away if they get too close, or you can just switch to firebolt with an FB sorc. Even IF you don't regenerate your mana, you'll still take about the same number of hits as a vita sorc.

I'm on West NL if you know anyone on West. I actually haven't dueled for a while, so it'd be nice to get some duels to shake off the rust.

I just mentioned necs as another reason for using ES.

Yes spamming randomly is a tactic, but it will rarely hit twice in a row.
 
What I've come to decide is that a 200fcr lit sorc using dual spirits will definitely take SvS the best. You get super fcr, 42-44k dmg, super fhr allowing you to take a hit and still run, and the capability to get decently good eshield with all of the +lit skills. Not to mention the big +life and mana you'd get from the spirits. Even in other matchups that build is hard to beat.

Hydra sorcs are another viable option. Even though the 5k dmg seems low, really you're getting 15k dmg per hydra spammed constantly. At lvl 96 you can have a hydra sorc that's also got full fireball/bolt/meteor synergies and serves as a full fledged fire sorc as well. By laying down hydras to wear down your enemy and make it difficult for them to tele around you, then shooting firebolts, you make it very difficult on them. The hydras might not be particularly deadly, but they can wear down your opponant, and they also serve to mask which firebolts are coming from you, so they can't tell which ones they really need to dodge. 200% fcr lit might beat it, but then again it might not. Who knows.
 
Neuroff said:
How is an orber gonna outmatch you in tele? You tele at the same speed and there plenty of time to tele away if you see them start to cast an orb.

I don't see why you don't think you can regenerate mana if you want to. All you have to do is tele away if they get too close, or you can just switch to firebolt with an FB sorc. Even IF you don't regenerate your mana, you'll still take about the same number of hits as a vita sorc.

I'm on West NL if you know anyone on West. I actually haven't dueled for a while, so it'd be nice to get some duels to shake off the rust.

I just mentioned necs as another reason for using ES.

Yes spamming randomly is a tactic, but it will rarely hit twice in a row.
Click to expand...



Then it will be pretty much a duel with you teleing away constantly. Not really a duel if you ask me. Again, then it will be pretty much you running away and regenerating mana. Also there are other sorcs such as lightning ones too who use large amounts of mana.

Spamming can land more than one hit. Since 200%fcr spells are very compact, it will be hard to dodge all of them.

SvS is not like any other duels where a strategy is to run and tele around the place trying to heal or by playing defensive. SvS is around 90% offensive where if you start teleing away, the opponent will seize the chance and attack aggressively knowing something is wrong (low life, low mana, etc).

In pubs, ES no doubt is better for the reasons you stated.
 
I didn't say you have to tele away constantly, you just need to go a little more defensive. Lightning sorcs are easier to regenerate mana with, their tele costs little to no mana.

Yeah spam can land more than one hit, but rarely will those two hits be within a few seconds.

Maybe the reason people you know get hit by so much spam is they go 90% offensive. That means the other person is playing defensive and shooting spam at them watching them run into it. If SvS was actually 90% offensive, the duels would end in under 30 seconds.
 
personally, id take the hoto/spirit over the spirit/spirit...

the mana boost difference is minimal and id take the extra +1skills and more fcr over the +22 to vit...
 
142 FHR is totally unnecessary. You get less resistances and have to use an ammy with 15 FCR instead of 10 FCR, which are much more common and therefore usually have better stats. This is assuming you're not on East using the duped Sorc ammy. However, with Hoto this now allows you to free up a ring to use an SoJ, or whatever you wish. Oak is also useful because it can take hits for you and allow you to take more hits.
 
Neuroff said:
I didn't say you have to tele away constantly, you just need to go a little more defensive. Lightning sorcs are easier to regenerate mana with, their tele costs little to no mana.

Yeah spam can land more than one hit, but rarely will those two hits be within a few seconds.

Maybe the reason people you know get hit by so much spam is they go 90% offensive. That means the other person is playing defensive and shooting spam at them watching them run into it. If SvS was actually 90% offensive, the duels would end in under 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

From what I get is that playing defensive in a SvS duel means hiding or just teleing far away.

How do you stand there and watch them get hit if they are playing offensive? Teleing and casting at 7 frame won't really give you time to stand there and spam a few while watching.

Yes most SvS duels end really quick. That's why it requires so much tactics as you try to get the best hits in short durations.

Also this thread is mainly about vita or ES for SvS. I still stand firm on vita.

Edit: also 142%fhr is pretty much needed for a vita one. Not necessary ES.
 
How is playing defensive hiding? You can spam or aim while they are off your screen, tele away when they are on it.

I never said you stand there watching them hit, you can see them hit while you're teleing.

I don't know who you've seen dueling, but I've seen plenty of long SvS duels.

I haven't seen a reason for why vita is better. ES sorcs take the same damage if they get pounded with no regeneration. They take much more damage when their mana regenerates.

Why is 142 FHR needed? 1 frame faster FHR over 86 will barely help at all.
 
Neuroff said:
How is playing defensive hiding? You can spam or aim while they are off your screen, tele away when they are on it.

I never said you stand there watching them hit, you can see them hit while you're teleing.

I don't know who you've seen dueling, but I've seen plenty of long SvS duels.

I haven't seen a reason for why vita is better. ES sorcs take the same damage if they get pounded with no regeneration. They take much more damage when their mana regenerates.

Why is 142 FHR needed? 1 frame faster FHR over 86 will barely help at all.
Click to expand...

This is SvS. No sorc will be off your screen for that long. Pub dueling, yes you can spam and play defensive.

Read above.

Yes I can have my long SvS, just tele around blood moor.

ES neglects resist, a manaless sorc = dead sorc. Also a pure vita does not need to use items such as Sojs/frostburns/mana scs/etc. Helping them easily get resist and higher life. Also most ES sorcs do not have a high ES%, which means even if your mana can take a high dmg, your life can't.

142 is required because with vita, most sorc attacks will put you into fhr recovery.
 
I love how people call me a newb because I suggest getting that last 1 frame of hit recovery, then turn around and suggest making a 200 fcr sorc because it's so much better than 105%...
 
RetroStar said:
This is SvS. No sorc will be off your screen for that long. Pub dueling, yes you can spam and play defensive.

Read above.

Yes I can have my long SvS, just tele around blood moor.

ES neglects resist, a manaless sorc = dead sorc. Also a pure vita does not need to use items such as Sojs/frostburns/mana scs/etc. Helping them easily get resist and higher life. Also most ES sorcs do not have a high ES%, which means even if your mana can take a high dmg, your life can't.

142 is required because with vita, most sorc attacks will put you into fhr recovery.
Click to expand...
So in SvS nobody is going to shoot anything from offscreen? What's this pub talk? I've never been talking about pubs. Is that supposed to be an insult? Half of dueling is not getting hit. For some reason you don't seem to get this. Why don't we just have a pissing contest? Stand next to each other, say "1, 2, 3, go", and then hold down the right mouse button.

Since when do 200 FCR sorcs use frostburns and sojs? They'll be using FCR rings with stats and res. How would life/mana scs be a disadvantage? They give an extra possible 17 useful stats that vita sorcs can't use.

ES sorcs have high mana. It takes no time to regenerate enough mana to tele even if you start with zero mana. A light sorc doesn't even have to regenerate any mana to tele. A vita sorc requires a mana pot if it's low on mana, an ES sorc does not.

Explain how 1 frame FHR is going to help.
 
barttange said:
lol

my sorc has 1,4k life (max res) and 4k mana (max block setup though)

4x1,33x6= 31k dmg
1,4x4x6= 33,6k dmg
I can take 64,4k dmg

a full vita sorc with 3k life

3x4x6= 72k
she can take 72k dmg
and the dmg will be higher without telekinesis


conclusion: full vita sorc is better
Click to expand...

Actually...

95% ES Sorc with 1.4k life, 4k mana, max block.
4k mana *1.33 TK Boost * 4 for blocking * 6 for PvP = 127.7k damage
1.4k life * 4 for blocking * 6 for PvP = 33.6k damage
Total = 161.3k damage

a full vita sorc with 3k life and max block
3x4x6= 72k damage

Conclusion: ES Sorc owns the vit sorc hands down. Even if you used a weaker ES on that vit sorc it still wouldn't make up the difference.
 
In all technicality, a lower ES beats an ES sorc every time. Life can have 75% resist or higher, but mana gets 25% resist at best. Also, unless you're holding an insight staff, your mana will take a good long time to regen; long enough that you'll die many times before it's ready to take another hit.
 
Aeonios said:
In all technicality, a lower ES beats an ES sorc every time. Life can have 75% resist or higher, but mana gets 25% resist at best.
Click to expand...

The up-side is that it's very easy to get large amounts of mana and that mana regenerates faster than life ever could. The ideal sorc build as far as damage taking goes is actually a medium-to-high ES with some vit and a large mana pool. Usually looking something like 2.5k life with 3k+ mana or so. The high ES sorc however has certain intangible benefits, the most important one being the fact that it's virtually impossible to send the high ES sorc into hit recovery. Only MB assassins and barbs using leap can do it with any consistancy.

Aeonios said:
Also, unless you're holding an insight staff, your mana will take a good long time to regen; long enough that you'll die many times before it's ready to take another hit.
Click to expand...

Not true at all. I've never had any problems regenerating significant amounts of mana in a duel as long as I'm not playing recklessly. The one duel where this is most noticable is against a bone necro. A 6k spear will knock off about 750 mana. I regen that in about 6-7 seconds.
 
Log in to Reply / Create Site Account
Remove Ads - Go PurePremium

Latest posts

Back
Top