Support unusual builds!

[Cormallon]

Support unusual builds!

In the last few weeks there were quite some build discussion threads that made me think about the stance of the SPF community over the build ideas people propose.

In most of these, someone asked if or how a certain idea would work. And very often it ended like 'why do you want to do that, some other build is more powerful'

This post is meant as a gentle reminder of what makes the SPF that great: the ability to make almost EVERYTHING work.

When someone asks, how a combination of blizzard, fireball and energy shield could work, don't talk them out of that idea but MAKE it work. A freeze / shock zealot IS possible, why suggest dumping freeze altogether and use HF merc instead? Look through the last couple of pages and you'll find many more examples.

I myself asked about the choice of three runeword armours, and got quite a lot of suggestions not to use any of them at all but take some standard equip instead. I knew about standard equipment choices, and want a change... (still undecided and collecting eth armours, btw).

I guess some of these reactions are a result of lots of long time members leaving, and the gaps are filled with new people. This is not a bad thing, but it changes the community for sure. But: When people mostly get talked out of their ideas, they don't feel 'at home' in the SPF. Help them being creative, help them find their way, don't support only cookie-cutters and power-play!

 

[xduckster]

Hear hear! May all styles have their chance at fame!

edit: OK, maybe I do feel a little bit guilty just spamming like that. But this is something that I agree with 100%. It's the unusual builds that make us all different. Also, for those people playing for a long time, it gets boring using the same items over and over again. Sometimes we need to change things around a little.

 

[Ugla]

I like the unorthodox builds unless they rely solely upon (poor) monster AI. Being a little different is nice, but not a reason for being totally incompetent.

I never liked "naked" builds nor too hard limitations on equipment/skills used. It destroys the strategy the same way an uber-gear does. Also many of the under-used skills are bugged, which is exactly the reason for being under-used.

I have played both cookie-cutters and theme builds in approximately 1:1 ratio, and loved or hated them regardless of their "type". The main criterion for me is how much my own strategy/skill affects the game, i.e. whether I can really make a difference , or if a well written script did same (or better :embarassed: ).

 

[stephan]

If someone asks "Does this work?", I assume he means it in respect to the standard builds. I also assume he is open to suggestions (not orders!) to make his build more effecient. It would be very dishonest to pass off every build as 'ok' just because some people solo the game naked. The naked builds require just as much careful planning as a cookie-cutter build.

If someone asks about his own build ideas, I assume he wants criticism, not confirmation. If he decides to go his own way anyway, I'm fine with that.

 

[sirpoopsalot]

bah...

I think there was a "what are some of your favourite non-cookie-cutter builds that you've tried?" thread 3-6 months ago, but of course no luck with the search engine. Too bad though, there were some really clever ones. I wish I could provide a link.


And I do agree with Cormallon's point... trying something different and creative can really be a fun experience, and it's nice to not be posting the 800th Hammerdin/Meteorb/Fishy pat thread of the month (not that I have anything against cookie-cutters, but there are always other ideas to try too - that's one of the reasons I still play D2).

 

[Darkoooo]

bah...

I think there was a "what are some of your favourite non-cookie-cutter builds that you've tried?" thread 3-6 months ago, but of course no luck with the search engine. Too bad though, there were some really clever ones. I wish I could provide a link.

Here ye! Here ye!

Found two:tongue: :
Really, really old:
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147533&highlight=unusual+build
And the one you were thinking about:
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546932&highlight=favorite

And I do agree with Cormallon, I think we shouldn't exclude some unusual builds. But hey, we should at least try to get them near to perfection(without destroying the original idea). If you want to go play naked, go...

edit:
I think that Blizzballer with ES would actually work, but I don't know if Frost/Shock Pally would(wouldn't it be like throwing away 20 points when you can't use both auras at the same time?)

 

[Cormallon]

... but I don't know if Frost/Shock Pally would(wouldn't it be like throwing away 20 points when you can't use both auras at the same time?)

You can't use it at the same time, but you can switch. I'm currently playing a mageazon through hell at P3, and she switches between frozen and immolation arrows according to the monsters she encounters. The merc adds a third component (physical). Same situation: I have two elemental attacks to choose from, but can't use them simultanously.

 

[Hrus]

I agree with stephan. When someone asks how will his build work, I will allways try to help him to make his build stronger and explain the flaws of the build assuming that it is what the asking person wants to hear. (And yes I admit I might be wrong sometimes)

And there is also a difference between an unorthodox build and a screwed build.
For example tripple element sorc is the unorthodox build for someone, but for me, it's screwed and week (skill points are too spread all over the skill trees and you really don't need 4 different kinds of damage).
When I have an unorthodox build in mind, it's usually a character that is built around an unorthodox skill (Thorns, Fend, Sacrifice, Armageddon, Lightning Strike, Hunger) like some SSoG's builds.

 

[Jaedhann]

......... but I don't know if Frost/Shock Pally would(wouldn't it be like throwing away 20 points when you can't use both auras at the same time?)

ahum, yes a teslafroster is very viable and fun. No immunes to your attack.

And as for fun, unorthodox builds, yes please, don't try to turn them into coockie-cutters. Try to improve them in the spirit of the idea, not try to improve them into something else.

-Jae

 

[yiuman]

In most of these, someone asked if or how a certain idea would work. And very often it ended like 'why do you want to do that, some other build is more powerful'

This post is meant as a gentle reminder of what makes the SPF that great: the ability to make almost EVERYTHING work.

I agree that most any build has the capability to work (if by work you mean completing the game) and its great when people offer suggestions and ideas on how to make an idea work.

However, I think we shouldn't be so supportive on this forum that we don't make the gentle point that the suggested character might.... struggle.... when it gets to higher difficulties. Its useful to say that whilst a fine idea, the character would struggle to do enough damage to complete the game. This isn't to put them off making an unusual/underpowered build, but that they do it with their eyes open as it is disappointing to say the least to get to Hell and find out your character no longer has the power to kill things and you don't have the patience/desire to crawl through hell at a snails pace.

I think it is also useful to note the difference between an unusual build and an underpowered one.

 

[Darkoooo]

ahum, yes a teslafroster is very viable and fun. No immunes to your attack.

Well, you see, maybe the problem with me is that I don't see Diablo 2 as a "fun" game. I don't even think that CE, stomping on bunnies, or whatever could make me laugh. Well, there would be one thing, seeing a 99 character getting killed by a Flayer:laugh:

 

[Basicbhoy]

I have recently started a staff wielding barb with very little mid/high end equip and am having a lot of fun with it. I needed help and got it so people do support it and for me, I look for constructive cristisicm. and that is what i try to give as well.

'dont do it' doesn't help anyone. advise them - it'll take a heck of a lot of work instead.

 

[Eric Xanthu]

I think all the threads about oddball builds (lately) have been pretty clear in the feedback saying "this will work, it won't be strong, but go have fun with it and tell us how it goes." Certainly we should be very upfront about the "go have fun with it part," but like others have said, getting feedback to improve the build is what the thread is usually about.

 

[Head Jumper]

I am little busy right now, so i've just read a first post. (i will read others when i get some time:embarassed: ) Anyways, i got horny about writing a guide, and i am kinda working on it :shhh: as it seems, it's a waste of time..

Can someone do me a favor of posting experience whilst using sacrifice as a attack? (killing blow 'bug') and if someone played sacrifice - based pally, post your overall opinion of it..

 

[Lompo]

I'm actually building a TeslaFroster: 1-3 Zeal (the minimum to get 5 Attack/s); max HF/HS + 1-5 points in HShield; max RL, 10 to Salvation and RC. The build is done around lvl 80, extra skill points to RC You rely mostly on elemental dmg + CB for End act bosses.
He will use Crescent moon as main weapon (HS), and Nord with HF on switch (or Heaven's) and Heaven's for end bosses.

 

[Luca Rescigno]

I think it's hard to tell a lot of the times what someone is really asking. It depends on the person a lot of the times, and how they ask it, and a hundred other little factors that aren't obvious straight off but which you take into account anyway when you respond to the question.

It's reasonable to tell someone that such and such skill is really weak. Like earlier today, someone asked if a summon Druid with Grizzly and Spirit of Barbs would be viable, and I couldn't not point out that SoB is really, really underpowered, and that even a high level Thorns aura takes a long time to kill monsters. Then, other people with more experience than me explained how they could incorporate damage return into their summon Druid build more effectively using a Thorns merc and Oak Sage. So it stuck to the original spirit of the build while improving its viability. I'd say that thread is a perfect example of what to do when someone asks.

 

[crazy_bear]

Thank you Cormallon! One of the things that makes the SPF great is the encouragement of people to use different things to make the game enjoyable. :thumbsup:

I agree that it is worth telling people about potential problems with their build, but at the same time we could be constructive about it, and make helpful suggesstions that fit their theme rather than... "maybe you should try blizzard with meteor..."

I would hate to see the SPF get the the BNet mentality. (Just use 'nigma, shako, anni, torch, etc and all will be good!)

 

[Anri]

I support and believe the unusual builds really add to the fun. While I do love trying cookie-cutters to feel their power, it is always nice to go back to an unusual build and deal with its handicaps.

My favorite way of doing this is trying to melee with characters who are primarily casters (sorc and necro) or way more proficient as a ranger (amazon).

Favorite Builds:
Amazon: Spearazon (Fend is awesome), or Tankazon with a huge 2-hander (IK Maul works!).
Necro: melee Scythe-based.
Sorceress: ANY melee!!!!

As for items one of my favorites ever has to be the Passion Runeword on any of the builds above (Zeal and Berserk oskills, very nice on Phase Blades).

 

[Uzziah]

. . . whatever could make me laugh. Well, there would be one thing, seeing a 99 character getting killed by a Flayer

I got killed by a catapult the other day Oops :wink2:

I really appreciate this thread, The SPF drew me here do to the unusual builds. Heck I have played many non-standard builds. Let me list a few:

Passive Barb
Magi Barb (firewall barb)
Mojomancer
Masteries sorc
Ranged Enchantress
Dual elemental druid

I think I am one of a very few people who have maxed out increased stamina on a barb.

 

[AJK]

I think I am one of a very few people who have maxed out increased stamina on a barb.

Don't worry, that's perfectly normal*. Just stay there and don't move, OK?

*calls looney patrol*

I myself like to play builds that some may consider overpowered, as long as it's not an auto-play character. The oddest build I've played is a max-defense elemental conviction zealot, and by the standards set by some of the explorers of far weirder builds, that one is almost a cookie-cutter. Shooting your char in the foot (head?) by going for an extreme build generally leads to awesome pat/mat/guardian(??!) threads, but that's not really my style.

*:I've got a build in hell that maxed inner sight.