Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

jianz

if no one goes higher in that tree then FB is not a pre-req, it is a power skill. to be a pre-req requires higher investment

the way you approach it would imply that in act 2 players can put points into any skill, as 'pre-reqs' and if they are not used, then so be it. such as a point in static field, assuming use of nova. I guess like you say, they can be only used in normal ... so maybe that is ok?

hmm .. i actually just talked myself out of my position, i think you are right jianz. nightmare/hell players will have to be careful not to use 1 point pre-reqs

by the way, good imbue amne!
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

You guys are really making me work :banghead:

The short answer to this general debate is, Yes, the way the rules are, any skill up to and including level 24 skills is potentially a prerequisite for a future Power Skill, and therefore, a player in act 2, 3, 4 or 5 could assign a single point to any of those skills, and those same skills could then be used throughout Normal difficulty.

I hope that's clear enough. As for whether this makes it possible to "screw" a character... get real. Let's look at an example:

A Barbarian has the following Core Skills: Iron Skin, Natural Resistance, Battle Orders, Howl. They can also place a single point into each weapon mastery, and double throw. That's a total of 11 skills. A point must also be put into Shout, to get to Battle Orders, and Double Swing, to get to Double Throw... that makes 13 skills.

Now, that same barb also gets three Power skills. That makes 16 skills used completely legitimately. There are also going to be legitimate prerequisites for those Power skills... let's say the act 3 player decides to give the barb Concentrate as a Power Skill (a perfectly viable option, though maybe not the most exciting). That skill has two prerequisites.

Now we've used 18 out of the possible 30 skills, completely legitimately, with no foul play whatsoever. Now the act 4 player gets the barb, and decides to add Battle Cry as a Power skill... also a perfectly fine choice. This also has a prerequisite... now we're up to 19 skills used with no problems.

Finally, the act 5 player selects Whirlwind. Two more prerequisites, bringing us to 21 skills selected with no wrongdoing. That leaves 9 skill points that could potentially be "wasted" by someone as prerequisites for possible Power skills that are never actually chosen... except some of those 9 skills are level 30, and cannot be prerequisites at all... 3, in fact.

So for this example barbarian, there is the potential for a total of 6 skill points to be misused by people determined to make the characted unplayable. And honestly, given that those skills include several useful Warcries that would make normal difficulty much easier, it's debatable whether more than 2 or 3 would actually be "wasted" at all. But even if six were used in completely useless ways, that alone wouldn't kill the character.

I'm fairly certain the same would hold true for most classes. Maybe sorceresses would potentially have it a little tougher, since half of their Power Skills involve no prerequisites, and so there are more "open" skills to be abused.

But even with that possibility in mind, that simply brings us back to the rules of the tournament... I think I've been more than clear on this. While the spirit of former SUTC tournaments has often been a bit more ambiguous, and intentionally crippling characters was part of the fun, the goal in this round is to get as many long-life characters as possible. I've told the entrants to feel free to send me any character for review, if they think it was intentionally sabotaged. I think that's enough of a deterrant for any potential mischief-maker, but if it's not, then the character-mangler will suffer the consequences. Period. If I examine a character that has been forwarded to me, and I think it has been made intentionally unplayable, then I will deal with it appropriately.

And now, I have a request. If someone poses a question about the rules, I'd like everyone else to just let me answer it personally... even if responding would mean something as simple as just quoting the rules post. Let me handle it. Sifting through page after page of speculation, trying to make sure I address everything, is getting really tiresome... I can answer much more quickly if I just have the initial question to deal with.

GAME ON!
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

The short answer to this general debate is, Yes, the way the rules are, any skill up to and including level 24 skills is potentially a prerequisite for a future Power Skill, and therefore, a player in act 2, 3, 4 or 5 could assign a single point to any of those skills, and those same skills could then be used throughout Normal difficulty.

Sorry, but I have to point out to you that Druid's Shape Shifting skills have level 24 skills that are not core or pre-reqs. So they cannot be selected by Act II player.

I'm not sure if there are others, but one example is enough.

And your example started from Act III, but I was talking about Act II. Based on the rules Act II player can[1] put skill points to almost any skill and doing so screw the character because wasted skill points. Like sombody already pointed out thaere is also other ways to screw the characters and like him I'm not going to spell them out.

[1] @Amne "can" not "will" nudge, nudge, wink, wink.


 
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Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Sorry, but I have to point out to you that Druid's Shape Shifting skills have level 24 skills that are not core ore pre-reqs. So they cannot be selected by Act II player.

Yes, the level 24 skill in question must at least have the *potential* to be a prerequisite... a level 24 skill with no level 30 skill after it could only be made a Power Skill (which cannot be done in Act 2), and not given a point otherwise.



 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

cheers skunk

was never worried about cheating, more accidentally forcing someone to play a specific character type when im doing an act 2 char
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Perhaps a straw poll: who here is playing this tournament with the intention of passing on a playable character each act?

I am, for one, and I suspect the answer would be yes for most of us, if not all of us. So I think all of this paranoid worrying about people cheating/sabotaging is a whole lot of much ado about nothing.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

No poll is necessary: as the rules clearly state, anyone I deem to have intentionally made a character unplayable will be removed from the tournament. It's settled. No more discussion is needed whatsoever on any issues related to ruined characters, or ways of potentially ruining characters, etc. I don't understand why we're still discussing it.

These are not the droids you're looking for. Move along.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

1. I can't ever remember having so much fun playing A1 normal before -because I am forced to think and play with different objectives than normal, yet I'm not so crippled that the game is tedious. That is good balance by the Tourny Director. Thanks, Skunkbelly!

2. In the twilight period of D2, this is a rare opportunity to play with some of the really great players in SPF history. I am anxious to do my best, to be respected for my effort, and to be jolly and pleasant.

3. I am NOT enjoying the chat. We are not supposed to have cross-discussions about strategy and our characters at this time; please honor that. There is supposed to be an element of surprise in the early stages of the tourny. Stop talking about strategy during this first phase of the tournament - which rune-words to make in the future, what items to imbue, what to hang onto for personalization, etc. This does not make you look smart; quite the opposite.

I am going to repeat it: please stop breaking the rules (about coordinating); stop discussing strategy.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Yes, back to jolly and pleasant it is. And another kudos to Skunkbelly - enjoying the challenge!

Young Skywalker has cleared act I and is awaiting his next adventure. He'll in the Lut Gholein cantina.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Farr dropped the daemon queen the first of 10 times, so is ready for the changeover

will get some runs in though

enjoying this muchly skunk

ps, email is soulmanz att hotmail dott com
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Just read soulmanz post and noted that he is going to do some "runs". I did the countess ten times and thought that was enough. But, I am beginning to really miss Binks (really miss D2), so I went back and read the rules. Yeah!!! I can rerun as much of act 1 as I want as long as I do not rerun the countess again or Andariel more than 9 more times. .....of course, I might kill Binks too..... But, the optimist in me is not a bit worried. Binks may be level 25 before I have to pass him!!!!

Rats and double rats! I went back, fired up D2 and then realized that I had already taken Binks to Lut Gholein. Oh, well, January 9th will be here before I know it....sob
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

I installed 1.13 and set out but I haven't made much progress yet. I'll get more chance to play in a while and should be fine for finishing by the deadline.

I'd like to join Quickdeath reminding people not to write anything that indicates what the build, approach, or items their character is using. The rules were clear on that:

Please do not discuss the characters you are playing/have played until we reach ACT 5 in normal difficulty. After that, discussion is fair game.

Discussing overall strategy (general question of what to imbue, what runewords are in reach at what point) doesn't break the rule as far as I can tell, but discussing the particular characters, their equipment, mercs, build, the difficulties they had, their particular experiences, level, etc. is definitely forbidden.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Discussing overall strategy (general question of what to imbue, what runewords are in reach at what point) doesn't break the rule as far as I can tell, but discussing the particular characters, their equipment, mercs, build, the difficulties they had, their particular experiences, level, etc. is definitely forbidden.

Yes, exactly.



 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Awww... First time in a tournie charsi is kind to me and I can't tell y'all about it!

Farr is now in lut gholein. No more damn runs! Got an eth s/u for my grail, which was nice.

I know I have said this twice already, but this tournie is great!

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Man, I'm being annoying with the questions!

skunk, got 1 thing I'm not clear on.... If I store an item for later personalisation, but that item is also equipable (ie it is grey), can I bring that item out if stash and use it before it is personalised?

For example, I find a great grey druid pelt in act 1, while playing as a sorc. I store it for later. In act 3 I get a druid. Can I use the pelt, or do I have to wait to personalise/socket it?

Cheers
 
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Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

(Han) Solo cleared out the last of Act 1 a couple of days ago. Had some interesting drops. Definitely looking forward to nightmare when these characters start to mature.

Happy questing in the New Year.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Ackbar the Druid has completed all the Act 1 quests and is getting drunk in Atma's Bar & Barf-a-rium in Lut Gholein. He looks forward to a long drunk and rest stop but will be ready to roll on January 9.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

If I store an item for later personalisation, but that item is also equipable (ie it is grey), can I bring that item out if stash and use it before it is personalised?

If it's equipable by the rules, it's equipable. So if you are keeping an item in your ATMA stash, but it is also equipable by your character based on the rules, then you can take it out and wear it just like any other item.

Note that this *also* means that, while you are wearing that item, you have an open space in your ATMA stash. Stashed is stashed, equipped is equipped.

So say you have two items in your stash now, a Gull dagger and a gray socketed druid pelt. You get your next character and it's a Druid. Now you can wear the pelt, if you wish. That means you only have one item in your stash now. You find a sweet Rare armor in act 2... you can't wear it, but you can put it in your stash, and you do. Now, when you finish act 2, if you still want to hang onto that druid pelt, you have to make a decision: you can only have two items in your stash, so one of the three has to go. Either the Pelt, armor or Gull has to be sold to Fara.



 
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