Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

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==============================================================
Forum Name              Email Address
==============================================================
Brak		 	prwillia   at gmail dot com   
Jason Maher		nswhorse   at gmail dot com 
jiansonz	        04084370   at bredband dot net
Joosh			jooshm     at gmail dot com
purplelocust            purple_locust at yahoo dot com
scrcrw                  scrcrw.spf at gmail dot com
Smilts			smiltstomb at gmail dot com  
Thomh                             lillelab at hotmail.com
Wolron			wmemmer9   at comcast dot net
WoRG                    Not Given Yet

This sounds like it will be crazy fun. Oh, and good to see Wolron, Joosh and Skunkbelly coming back to this game:)
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

I rethought my timeschedule and decided to give this a go.


Code:
==============================================================
Forum Name              Email Address
==============================================================
Brak		 	prwillia   at gmail dot com   
Jason Maher		nswhorse   at gmail dot com 
jiansonz	        04084370   at bredband dot net
Joosh			jooshm     at gmail dot com
purplelocust            purple_locust at yahoo dot com
scrcrw                  scrcrw.spf at gmail dot com
Smilts			smiltstomb at gmail dot com  
tavaritz                tavaritz at gmail dot com
Thomh                   lillelab at hotmail dot com
Wolron			wmemmer9   at comcast dot net
WoRG                    Not Given Yet
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

You can assume whatever you like, but I normally read tourney rules: What ever is not permitted is forbidden.
Item restrictions on consumables are quite uncommon in tournies that allow any interactions with the townsfolk.



 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

I'm in. This is one thing that could get me playing again.




Code:
==============================================================
Forum Name              Email Address
==============================================================
Brak		 	prwillia   at gmail dot com   
Hoop76                  BHoop76  at gmail cot com
Jason Maher		nswhorse   at gmail dot com 
jiansonz	        04084370   at bredband dot net
Joosh			jooshm     at gmail dot com
purplelocust            purple_locust at yahoo dot com
scrcrw                  scrcrw.spf at gmail dot com
Smilts			smiltstomb at gmail dot com  
tavaritz                tavaritz at gmail dot com
Thomh                   lillelab at hotmail dot com
Wolron			wmemmer9   at comcast dot net
WoRG                    Not Given Yet
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

@Skunkbelly: Here is my rewrote on the equipment rules, so that IMHO they are more clear.


1. You can shop any white or grey items. This includes all consumables: scrolls, tomes, potions and ammo.

2. You can use and equip any white or grey items, this includes all you find in excess to those you have shopped. You can socket those with sockets using any socketable item (runes, gems & jewels), this means that you can make runewords.

3. You can gamble any item you want.

4. For other type of items they must be either earned or created:

a. Any item Imbued can be equiped.
b. Any item shopped or found can be equiped if it is Personalized.
c. Any quest reward item or quest item can be equiped or used. Quest rewards are: Rings from Akara & Ormus, Anya's gift. Quest items are for example: Wirt's leg, the Gidbinn, the Viper Amulet and the Scroll of Resistance.
d. Any ring, amulet or charm can be equiped or used.
e. Any item you create using the Cube. The ingredients must be something you've found, gambled, shopped or earned.
f. You can modify an item you can equip which ever way you want and it's still equipable.

- Shopping is not gambling and vice versa.


That's it as the transfer rule stays the same.

What do you think? Should the e. be "...you've found, shopped or earned. Gambled items can only be used in crafts."

A question: Is the Cows sixth act or part of the fifth?
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

@tavaritz: I agree on most of the list, and it´s pretty clear.

But your point 4e clearly goes against the original rule number 1. As I read the original rules, you can not equip e.g. chippie-rerolled magical weapons, cubed Savage Polearms etc. Unique, set, rare and magical items can only be equipped if they have been modified through a quest reward or received as a quest reward. @skunkbelly: what about Larzuk socketing? Does that make items from these four qualities usable?
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

@tavaritz: I agree on most of the list, and it´s pretty clear.

But your point 4e clearly goes against the original rule number 1. As I read the original rules, you can not equip e.g. chippie-rerolled magical weapons, cubed Savage Polearms etc.

Original rule 5 says that you can create items by cube. Like I already wrote that the epiteth, "...provided they do not break any of the rules above." doesn't make any sense.

Either you can use cube to make other items than crafts or you don't. The rules above doesn't mention anything about what you could put into the cube except that rule 4 allows crafts.

Let's say if you want to reroll a charm you've found. Charms are ok to use, but gems are only allowed in sockets. So no deal. If on the other hand rule 5 means that you can reroll your charms, why not make a savage polearm? Either you clearly state what can go into the cube or you just point out which recipes are useable. I wrote my interpretation based on the idea that you can use cube to create items.

If Skunkbelly meant that you can only reroll or upgrade those items you can equip, why not state so?

EDIT: P.S. I'm not trying to say that you should be allowed to make savage polearms, I'm just trying to clarify the rules.


 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Skunkbelly's tourney rules tend to be some of the most complete and least ambiguous of SPF tourneys; I think what he posted was basically a draft for comments so I'm not worried about the actual rules being unclear.

I've looked more carefully at the Core Skills; here are a few comments from the perspective of a character levels 1-29 in acts 1,2, and 3 normal with an eye towards builds that could manage Hell and how they would be affected bt the choice of core skills:

>Sorceress Core Skills: Elemental Masteries, Teleport and Warmth.

There isn't much that would be useful for a level 1-29 character, but I think that is OK since the sorcs will probably be pretty strong characters further along, with a lot of different possible builds to consider. I would anticipate a lot of saved skill points for a sorc until A3 normal with these core skills. Of these core skills, the ones to actually eventually put a lot of points into are just the masteries, unless one is building an Enchantress, I would think.

>Barbarian Core Skills: Increased Speed, Iron Skin, and all Weapon Masteries

A single weapon mastery would be the sensible thing for a 1-29 character to invest in. Increased Speed doesn't really give much for additional points, and the chance of having high enough defense gear late in the game isn't really worth an early Iron Skin investment. Again, I anticipate saved skill points until A3 normal. Many barbs would want BO maxed, so if that is a power skill, that means we may be looking at some Concentrate barbs for the BO synergy. Concentrate barbs are not everyone's cup of tea. There isn't anything in the core skills for a Singer but that would be a difficult build with the gear limitations.

>Amazon Core Skills: Inner Sight, Critical Strike, Penetrate, Pierce

Critical Strike seems like the one for early investment; pierce and penetrate may be worth maxing eventually depending upon the build. If people have an eye to eventually choose Valk as a Power Skill, natural early investments are things that strengthen the Valk.

>Assassin Core Skills: Claw Mastery, Burst of Speed, Fade, Cloak of Shadows

Investments in Claw Mastery will lean toward melee assassins, for which decent later gear could be problematic. One of Burst of Speed or Fade seem like safe early investments, but neither one will help kill things early on. Trappers may be a good eventual choice (they generally did well in the earlier incarnations of the tourneys) but they may be slow to get started with these. Death Sentry is a potential Power Skill that serves a lot of builds well but none of these core skills help it.

>Paladin Core Skills: All Defensive Auras, Holy Shield

This is a little trickier- there are a lot of potential paladin builds, but with these core skills, the tendency I foresee would be elemental zealots with one-handed weapons, or maybe avengers. Unless an early player saves points, the eventual path could well be determined by which of the Resist auras (or Vigor) is chosen early, to synergize the appropriate Holy Aura. A hammerdin is of course a possibility which would be served well with Vigor, as would a charger.

>Druid Core Skills: Lycanthropy, Werewolf, Werebear, Oak Sage, All Creepers

There isn't much here for elemental or summoner druids except saving early skill points. The suggestion of Cyclone armor as a core skill would tilt the elemental ones towards wind and away from fire. Having played a Bowler already, that's OK by me!

>Necromancer Core Skills: Skeleton Mastery, Golem Mastery, Summon Resist, Bone Armor

There aren't any curses in here, which is basically OK as most of them work well with just a point anyway. Dim Vision or any of the AI curses might be ones to consider here as they can serve a lot of different builds without really biasing the build selection one way or another. Nothing in the core skills serves a poison build well, so for that saving skill points would be natural thing to do.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Wow, I step away for a day, and things get interesting! I'm glad to see so many of the old SUTC crew back for this one, and welcome to the newcomers.

I'll address most of the recent posts sometime this weekend, but to clarify the one question that seems to be getting the most heat:

The rule about making items with the cube is intended as written. You can use the cube to make items, BUT the items made must be usable within the context of all other equipment rules. Some examples of what is "legal":

-- You could use the cube to create a normal socketed item. No worries! These are legal all the time.

-- You could use the cube to re-roll jewelry or charms. No worries... you can already equip any jewelry or charms, any time. You could also re-roll jewels... they're legal under the rules with no restrictions.

-- You can use the cube to craft.

-- You could even use the cube to create re-roll a magic weapon that you find. That's OK... *BUT* you still cannot equip the thing unless you get Anya to personalize it for you in Act 5.

@jiansonz: I think I already mentioned this, but the Larzuk quest does *not* make an item wearable (but you could have Larzuk socket an item, and then have Anya personalize it for you, which WOULD make it legal).

@whoever asked: charges and +skills on items are legal under all circumstances. But of course, the item would have to meet the usual equipment limitations before it could equipped in the first place.

Anyway, I'm at work, so I can't do more answering now... but I wanted to clarify that one quickly. I will probably post a new version of the rules this weekend sometime, for more organized discussion. And thanks for keeping the ideas coming!
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

By the way... could the next person to edit the table add me in as well? Thanks!
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

@Skunkbelly: Here is my new rewrote on the equipment rules, so that IMHO they are more clear. Changes based on your clarification.


1. You can shop any white or grey items. This includes all consumables: scrolls, tomes, potions and ammo.

2. You can use and equip any white or grey items, this includes all you find in excess to those you have shopped. You can socket those with sockets using any socketable item (runes, gems & jewels), this means that you can make runewords.

3. You can gamble any item you want.

4. For other type of items they must be either earned or created:

a. Any item Imbued can be equiped.
b. Any item shopped or found can be equiped if it is Personalized.
c. Any quest reward item or quest item can be equiped or used. Quest rewards are: Rings from Akara & Ormus, Anya's gift. Quest items are for example: Wirt's leg, the Gidbinn, the Viper Amulet and the Scroll of Resistance.
d. Any ring, amulet or charm can be equiped.
e. You can equip crafted items. You cannot use shopped items in crafting.
f. You can modify an item anyway you like but it retains it's class. Shopped is still shopped, gambled is still gambled, found is still found, created is still created and earned is still earned.


- Shopping is not gambling and vice versa.
- Note point f: It covers all cube recipes and Larzuk's reward.


That's it as the transfer rule stays the same.


A question: Is the Cows sixth act or part of the fifth?

Another question: You didn't mention it, but are the recipes to create resist rings & ammy useable?
 
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Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

I have coined a new term... RENEWBE

Yes, I am a newbe all over again. I tried to patch D2. I went to Blizzard's patch site and downloaded 1.13c. But, when I tried to apply it, I received a message that said that I am already patched beyond this level. My current patch is 1.11b and that is what I applied a very long time ago. What is going on????? Do I have to download and apply 1.12 first?
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

@ Wolron: have you tried logging on to Battle.net? Maybe that would do it.

***

Here is a new draft of both the general rules and the equipment rules. I think this pretty much does the trick... but if something still isn't clear, let me know and I will address it. These rules should not be taken as final until I post the official, final rules on Christmas Day. You'll know the real thing because there will be a witty, dramatic preamble.

*

It’s been a while, but in honor of the long wait for Diablo 3, I thought it was finally time to have another SUTC tournament. In this tournament, like all previous SUTC tournaments, you will not want to get too attached to your characters. You will play your character for one act… then you will pass it on to the next player, who will be randomly determined each week. They will then takeover that character’s fate… while you will have a new character to push ahead with. And so on and so on, until all characters either achieve Guardian status or take a more humble title, such as Daisy-Pusher-Upper.

As if that wasn’t enough challenge, there are several skill and item restrictions that will affect your gameplay. The idea, this time around, is to give magic a different feeling… a more “realistic” feeling. Magic items are harder to come by, and must mostly be made, not simply found. Characters will also have certain key abilities, and then some special additional Powers, but in general, the number of skills that may be used is smaller than usual.

BASIC RULES

1. Hardcore characters only.

2. V 1.13 only, please.

3. No S&E to avoid death, or other similar cheese. Be honorable.

4. You may play on any /players setting.

5. Respecs are banned for this tournament.

6. Any mercenary may be used, but they are subject to the same equipment rules as characters are. Also, if you wish to select a new merc, you cannot go backwards in time to a previous town to select one… you may use the merc passed along to you, or you may hire a new one in the act you are playing. No exceptions.

7. You may re-run areas for the act that you are playing, but you cannot go “back in time” to a previous act, except to shop in town (which is permitted… you may even switch difficulty levels for shopping purposes). However, you are limited to killing the Countess and all act bosses a maximum of *10 times* per difficulty level.

8. We will switch characters every two weeks. Therefore, you must be able to play through an act in two weeks’ time. If you cannot, you will be disqualified. Act 4 will only be given one week, due to its brevity.

9. All items must be found within the game… no bringing in items from your other characters. You may, however, mule off items that you cannot use to your own stashes, if you so choose. You may also keep a stash for your characters (see equipment rules for details on this).

10. No cooperative gameplay… you can only play solo.

11. In order to join, you must sign up in this thread by December 25th.

12. The tournament will begin on December 27th. All starting characters and classes will be posted then.

13. When you sign up, list your forum name and your email address (necessary for sending character files).

14. Please do not discuss the characters you are playing/have played until we reach ACT 5 in normal difficulty. After that, discussion is fair game.

EQUIPMENT RULES

1. All jewelry may be used, without exception or restriction.

2. All charms may be used.

3. All Crafted items may be used. Please note that this does NOT mean simply using the Cube to make an item… it means making an item using one of the Crafted Item recipes (i.e., Hit Power, Blood, etc.).

4. All unique quest items (The Gidbinn, the Viper amulet, etc. etc.) may be used while they are in your possession. Wirt’s Leg may also be used, if you’re that hard-up.

5. You may use any white item, any gray socketed item, and any non-magical ethereal item.

6. Aside from those categories, items must be in one of the following categories:

-- Items that have been imbued by Charsi (items must be redeemed before leaving Act 1 in that difficulty).
-- Items that have been personalized using the act 5 quest reward.
-- Anya rescue quest reward class-specific items.

7. Sockets in any item may be filled with anything you like. This includes “vanilla” runewords. Ladder-only runewords are banned.

8. You may use the Cube to create items, provided they do not break any of the rules above.

9. Gambling is allowed, but aside from jewelry, the items you gamble may ONLY be equipped if they are Personalized in act 5 (but you could use them to make a crafted item, of course).

10. You can shop for anything you like, but again, items must meet the rule restrictions above to be equipped.

11. All potions, keys, tomes, arrows, bolts, and scrolls may be shopped for without restriction.

12. Staff mods, skill charges, and oskills on any item *may* be used, assuming the item itself meets the restrictions above.

13. The Larzuk socketing reward does NOT make an item eligible to be used… you can only use items Larzuk sockets if they meet the requirements above (i.e., they were a white magic item, a plain ethereal item, a Crafted item, or something you personalized with Anya).

14. Mercenaries must abide by all equipment rules as well.

ATMA USE

You may keep an ATMA stash for your character; however, you may only use it to hold gold that cannot be contained in-game (because your in-game gold bank is maxed out), or to hold socket-fillers and extra charms. All other items must be held in your in-game inventory, with one important exception: at all times, you may keep ONE item in your ATMA stash to save for the possibility of using it in the Act 5 personalization reward. But that is all: one item, socket-fillers, spare charms, and gold you can’t hold in your in-game stash.

PASSING CHARACTERS

Before each switch day, I will post a list of who must send their character to whom. Then, assuming you survive the act, you will email your .d2s file (and nothing else!) to the next player WITH ALL OF THEIR EQUIPMENT AND GOLD, including equipped charms and potions. The ONLY items you may keep for yourself are items that you are permitted to keep in your ATMA stash (see above).

If you are going to have a problem passing your character on time, please be sure to communicate that. We can be a little flexible, if we know where things stand… but if you just vanish, that’s a problem.

For the purposes of switching acts, the Cow Level is considered part of Act 5. It is, however, completely optional. If you are fortunate enough to become a Guardian, do NOT play the Hell Cow Level… it will be used for tie-breaking purposes.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

I still don't understand the cube rule (8). Why ban item creation by cube if the item created cannot be equipped? Why am I not allowed to do this? What is allowed to put in the cube?

If I read the the rule 8 correctly: "...provided they do not break any of the rules above. "

Then by rule 1 & 2 I can put any jewelry or charms into the cube.
Rule 3 allows crafted items into the cube.
Rule 4 allows me to assemble the staff and flail (plus put any other quest item including Wirt's leg into the cube).
Rule 5 says I can put any white items (this includes I assume all potions, scrolls, tomes and gems).
Rule 6 says I can put imbued, personalized and quest rewards into the cube.
Rule 7 says I can put socketed items into the cube.

So from this I infer that I cannot use any other cube recipe than crafting that requires me to put either a jewel (blue or yellow) or a rune (orange) into the cube. This would mean no jewel rerolling, no rune upgrades, no item upgrades, no unsocketing etc. Is this what you meant?



Why not make two different sets of rules on items:

A. What you can own and use ('use' here means: keeping in inventory, consuming, casting, using in cube recipes, putting in sockets, selling, repairing ie. all item uses where you don't need to equip the item):

Everything. Ie. you can pick up all items, shop and gamble, you can modify items with cube, you can socket items with Larzuk and you can stuff anything in sockets including making runewords. EDIT: (1)

B. What you can equip:

Rings, amulets, crafts, whites, greys (as runewords are allowed in socketed grey items they stay "grey" even though their title changes to golden), personalized, imbued and quest rewards & items (including Wirt's leg).


I mean come on, why ban making of savage polearm if you need to personalize it to equip it?

(1) You might want to ban the infinite gold sell/buy combos.

QUESTIONS:

About cows: should the Wirt's leg be passed on or can the Act 5 player go and fetch it? What if the Act 1 guy didn't complete rescue Cain? This leads to a further question: Are all quests mandatory or not?
 
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Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Ill admit to some small confusion on the cube rules as well.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Alright count me in



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Forum Name              Email Address
==============================================================
Brak		 	prwillia   at gmail dot com   
Hoop76                  BHoop76  at gmail cot com
Jason Maher		nswhorse   at gmail dot com 
jiansonz	        04084370   at bredband dot net
Joosh			jooshm     at gmail dot com
purplelocust            purple_locust at yahoo dot com
scrcrw                  scrcrw.spf at gmail dot com
Smilts			smiltstomb at gmail dot com  
tavaritz                tavaritz at gmail dot com
Thomh                   lillelab at hotmail dot com
Wolron			wmemmer9   at comcast dot net
WoRG                    Not Given Yet
Gahzban                 gahzban at hotmail dot com
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

Adding in skunkbelly!



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Forum Name              Email Address
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Skunkbelly              memmers4 at peoplepc dot com
Brak		 	prwillia   at gmail dot com   
Hoop76                  BHoop76  at gmail cot com
Jason Maher		nswhorse   at gmail dot com 
jiansonz	        04084370   at bredband dot net
Joosh			jooshm     at gmail dot com
purplelocust            purple_locust at yahoo dot com
scrcrw                  scrcrw.spf at gmail dot com
Smilts			smiltstomb at gmail dot com  
tavaritz                tavaritz at gmail dot com
Thomh                   lillelab at hotmail dot com
Wolron			wmemmer9   at comcast dot net
WoRG                    Not Given Yet
Gahzban                 gahzban at hotmail dot com
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

We should call this "Old-school SPFers Resurrection Tournament." SUTC 2011 has a better ring to it, though.

Code:
==============================================================
Forum Name              Email Address
==============================================================
Brak		 	prwillia   at gmail dot com   
Gahzban                 gahzban at hotmail dot com
Hoop76                  BHoop76  at gmail cot com
Jason Maher		nswhorse   at gmail dot com 
jiansonz	        04084370   at bredband dot net
JoeBruce                JoeBruce185 at gmail dot com
Joosh			jooshm     at gmail dot com
purplelocust            purple_locust at yahoo dot com
scrcrw                  scrcrw.spf at gmail dot com
Skunkbelly              memmers4 at peoplepc dot com
Smilts			smiltstomb at gmail dot com  
tavaritz                tavaritz at gmail dot com
Thomh                   lillelab at hotmail dot com
Wolron			wmemmer9   at comcast dot net
WoRG                    Not Given Yet
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

OK, I'll see if I can make the cube rules even more clear. How about this:

"You can use the Horadric Cube in any way you want, at any time. However, in order for you to EQUIP an item created in the Cube, it must first meet all other equipment rules."

I don't see how that can possibly be misinterpreted.

About cows: should the Wirt's leg be passed on or can the Act 5 player go and fetch it? What if the Act 1 guy didn't complete rescue Cain? This leads to a further question: Are all quests mandatory or not?

Good questions here. I will make a ruling on quests in the final update (they will most likely be mandatory, but I'm still thinking about it). For Wirt's Leg... I hate having to save that darn thing, so yes, the Act 5 player can go retrieve a Leg from act 1, no problem.
 
Re: Skunkbelly's Ultimate Tournament Challenge 2011

1) In one of the previous tourneys, there were problems with characters whose names that had the underscore "_" character in them. Some people could open them, and some people could not. I think it was all fixable with ATMA but it would be good to avoid in the first place if we can.

2) It might be good to clarify what "completing the act" means. What it's been before has been: all waypoints visited in the act and activated and all quests for that act completed so that they are greyed out on the quest screen. In the case of Act 3, the character needs to step through the red portal to the Pandemonium Fortress in A4- there were problems with players forgetting to do that before. (Yes, this means that you may visit WPs you don't usually visit, like Halls of the Dead in NM and Hell and the Halls of Pain WP...)

I'm of two minds on allowing discussion of characters after A5 norm (basic rule #14.) I hope to still be alive then, in which case I don't want to hear anything about the characters. But if I've lost a character by then, I would be happy to hear about how all the rest are doing. How about holding back on the information until half of the characters are gone from the tourney, or something like that? Another idea is to have discussion about the characters in a separate thread so that those who don't want to hear about them can avoid any knowledge?

Edit: on sabotage:

I'd also be in favor of a rule that deliberate sabotage is grounds for disqualification. I don't know a good mechanism- perhaps if a player were to receive a character thought to be deliberately sabotaged, an appeal could be made to the host, sending the character as evidence. In order for the tourney to work well and for the exchanges to go smoothly and in a timely fashion, people will have to commit a fair amount of time to it and be in touch via email and the forums. The potential of someone deliberately sabotaging a character might make it less likely that people will invest the needed time. There is some ambiguity between "poorly played", "hastily played", "played with a misclick or two", "played with a very nonstandard build in mind" and "deliberately sabotaged" but I don't think it would be too hard to recognize intentional sabotage, by skill, stat or equipment choices.
 
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