Skeleton Level for 'To Hit' Purposes

[Bongo Fury]

Skeleton Level for 'To Hit' Purposes

Hey All.

What level do skeletons use for their 'to hit' purposes? I tried searching the forum for the answer, but all I got was frustration.

I want to build a low level character (40ish) to try to make it through Hell, and someone suggested trying a Skellimancer. Skellies and Mastery only need 40 skill points, so that will leave me with enough for some curses and utilities. But I'm concerned that if the character level is used in calculating the skeletons to hit chance, my skellies won't be able to hit anything. Even if I use a BA merc. Also, is it any different for a Golem or Revives, are they also tied to character level?

Thanks for any help. And if anyone has any suggestions for my low level Hell run, I'd appreciate that as well.

 

[Mad Mantis]

But I'm concerned that if the character level is used in calculating the skeletons to hit chance, my skellies won't be able to hit anything.

IIRC the Skeletons own level gets used in the formula. Your Skellies will probably not be able to hit anything, because of the penalties imposed on a lower level character hitting a higher level character.

 

[JoJeck]

Hey All.

What level do skeletons use for their 'to hit' purposes? I tried searching the forum for the answer, but all I got was frustration.

I want to build a low level character (40ish) to try to make it through Hell, and someone suggested trying a Skellimancer. Skellies and Mastery only need 40 skill points, so that will leave me with enough for some curses and utilities. But I'm concerned that if the character level is used in calculating the skeletons to hit chance, my skellies won't be able to hit anything. Even if I use a BA merc. Also, is it any different for a Golem or Revives, are they also tied to character level?

Thanks for any help. And if anyone has any suggestions for my low level Hell run, I'd appreciate that as well.

In the melee calculation to hit, skeletons use the level of your necro when they were summoned. The level part of the chance to hit calculation will become dominant in this case. That means level 40ish skellies will have a bad time hitting level 85 monsters and level 85 monsters will have an easy time hitting them... You should use a Blessed Aim merc to stand any chance.


I think you will have a difficult time getting a low level Necro through Hell ... unless you have a fantastic amount of + skills and some great equipment. However, if you really want a challenge, go for it, if any low level character can do it will be one of us

Good luck, you're going to need it.

 

[rickcarson]

In the melee calculation to hit, skeletons use the level of your necro when they were summoned. The level part of the chance to hit calculation will become dominant in this case. That means level 40ish skellies will have a bad time hitting level 85 monsters and level 85 monsters will have an easy time hitting them... You should use a Blessed Aim merc to stand any chance.


I think you will have a difficult time getting a low level Necro through Hell ... unless you have a fantastic amount of + skills and some great equipment. However, if you really want a challenge, go for it, if any low level character can do it will be one of us

Good luck, you're going to need it.

Because of your level being used as the hit % you won't get *anywhere* as a lvl 40 Skellimancer in Hell.

Oh, and with such a low level, you will also get diddly squat experience. If you do manage to kill anything, which seems unlikely.

Other alternatives which might actually work:
* Mages (no AR problems :-D (your problem here will be (a) starting the army (also a problem with the Skellimancer), and (b) keeping some kind of defense between the monsters and the mages
* Revives ??? (Though they might also have the level / AR problem ???) and of course they also have the problem... how are you planning to kill the first one???
* Poison Nova
* Bone Spear / Bone Prison
* Curses (Eg Attract/Confuse - nb duration savagely reduced in Hell)
* Dim Vision (some crazy dude made a Pacifist Necro that ran through Hell not killing anything except for quest monsters, go look it up)

But Skeletons? Thats going to be hard work. I've solo'd into Hell at lvl 59 with a Necro, and that was really slow going. With +20 skills (I assume an inventory full of charms specifically for this purpose) you *might* pull it off.... if you're incredibly patient. But even then anything under lvl 50 seems a huge stretch to me.

My prediction: you'll get annoyed, and either (a) proclaim to all forums, friends and family that Necros suck, or (b) go back to NM and level him up some more.

How are you planning to get the first half a dozen corpses? A lvl 40 merc is going to get pimpslapped into oblivion by the first fallen it runs into. Even a decent clay gumby won't save him if there are two (or more) fallen. Same with a single Skeleton, its got 'pimpslapmeplz' written all over it.

 

[[D]Rui[D]]

why would anyone wanna make a lvl 40-ish get into hell for its hell run where a NM run is more rewarding in term of exp and killing power/speed .....
you won't even survive the 1st pack of quill rats outside blood moor.
not to mention your army is gonna be so unbelievablely weak, they will be going down aka "1 hit 1 kill" style.

 

[Bongo Fury]

A little background:
Back in 1.09 I was bitching about all the low level characters in Cow games. These characters had no business being this far along in the game at their level. Then I thought, just how low level of a character could I get through the game getting all the WPs and completing all the quests? So was born my Barb, Limbo_Jr. I played him SP, HC and purposely twinked for each challenge he faced. In order to keep him from gaining too many levels, I only killed what I had to in order to complete the quests. So he did a lot of running and leaping past monsters, and he did tons of herding and parking of monsters. I killed NM Diablo at L14, but by that point he was becoming incredibly tedious to play. I think the Diablo fight lasted 2 hours (it was SP so I was able to take a break and do a 20 mile run in the middle). Nilathuk was proving to be a real ball buster, so I leveled him up to 18 so that I could use a 6 PE bow. That made it much better and I got past Nilathuk. But he ended up dying to the Ancients when the leaper guy one hit killed me (after I had killed the whirler). I posted the full story, but it was lost in the forum change. If anyone would like to read it let me know and I can give you a link to another forum where it is still available (it's against the rules to post the link here).

So rather than trying the same thing in 1.10, I'm planning to just try to make it through Hell with as low a level character as possible. So once again I'll be avoiding as much combat as practical, while still getting all quests and WPs. Level 42 seems to be a good starting level since it will allow some very helpful items like skiller charms and Occy/Homo. In discussing my plan many folks suggested trying a Skellimancer, but I was concerned about the level differences and hitting. Hence my post here for the Necro experts. I think the only way I could make the Skellimancer work would be with a BA merc and a Beast Iron Golem. That would give my horde the best chance of killing. But they'd still get hammered in return. So I don't know if they could kill faster than they be killed off.

The other options I'm considering are a FB Sorc and a Shadow Warrior cheeze Assassin. Depending on a moron Warrior sounds doable, but it could be too frustrating to make it through.

So, now that y'all know exactly what I'm looking to do, what say ye Necro experts? Is there a Necro build that will let me accomplish my goal without being painfully tedious?

 

[Mad Mantis]

I think the only way I could make the Skellimancer work would be with a BA merc and a Beast Iron Golem. That would give my horde the best chance of killing. But they'd still get hammered in return. So I don't know if they could kill faster than they be killed off.

The IG and the Merc will be killed very quickly. Besides that, I doubt that even the level 9 BA will be all that helpful. It offers a mere +195% AR.

Let me think a bit about a build, but I can not guarantee that it won't be tedious or cheap.

 

[JoJeck]

In principle you can do this with a Necro at fairly low level since your "power" is in the minions and these can be boosted a great deal using + skills. Skeletons life and damage in in Hell is soley determined by the level of RS and SM at the time of casting and not by their level. As I said in the post above their level only affects the probablity that they hit and the probability that they will get hit by the much higher level monsters you'll face.

Regarding the number of + skills you could have theoretically in the levels 40-ish. Homunculus, +2 skill wands and Grand charms with +1 summoning become available at level 42. The +3 summoning mod on Circlets, Amulets, Wands and Necro Heads become available at level 45 and you could use that set up to pre-buff your skellies enormously. It just depends how rich you are.

Assuming you have access to this exotic equipment I guess you could almost complete Hell and only gain a level or two... Although you have to be level 60 to get past Hell Ancients - if I remember well - so that is a hard limit on completion.

 

[AvatarMyth]

get to 42 so u can use the nice + skill equiptment and when ur done with hell cap urself off at 45-50 just cuz even/rounded numbers are nice.

 

[Planet_Smasher]

A little background:
Back in 1.09 I was bitching about all the low level characters in Cow games. These characters had no business being this far along in the game at their level. Then I thought, just how low level of a character could I get through the game getting all the WPs and completing all the quests? So was born my Barb, Limbo_Jr. I played him SP, HC and purposely twinked for each challenge he faced. In order to keep him from gaining too many levels, I only killed what I had to in order to complete the quests. So he did a lot of running and leaping past monsters, and he did tons of herding and parking of monsters. I killed NM Diablo at L14, but by that point he was becoming incredibly tedious to play. I think the Diablo fight lasted 2 hours (it was SP so I was able to take a break and do a 20 mile run in the middle). Nilathuk was proving to be a real ball buster, so I leveled him up to 18 so that I could use a 6 PE bow. That made it much better and I got past Nilathuk. But he ended up dying to the Ancients when the leaper guy one hit killed me (after I had killed the whirler). I posted the full story, but it was lost in the forum change. If anyone would like to read it let me know and I can give you a link to another forum where it is still available (it's against the rules to post the link here).

HEY!!! I remember reading your stories/adventures
:winner:

Those were amazing... I would love the link personally. I just want to mention the Ancients minimum lvl requirements..

Please PM the link for your adventures :clap:

 

[Bongo Fury]

HEY!!! I remember reading your stories/adventures

Those were amazing... I would love the link personally. I just want to mention the Ancients minimum lvl requirements..

Please PM the link for your adventures

Links sent, enjoy the stories.

As far as geting past the Ancients, I'll have to be a dirty rotten cheater and use an editor to give myself the WK2 WP after I kill the Ancients. Then I'll backtrack to the Summit so as to 'complete' the quest. Rereading the story I just sent you it was the same way back in 1.09, you had to be L20 to fufill the quest in Normal. So I had to resort to the editor there too.

BTW, I think I'm going to give the Skellimancer a try. So if anyone has any spare SP gear to donate to the cause I'd really appreciate it. I could probably use an editor to create any 'legit' item I could want, but I really don't want to use any more hacks than absolutely necessary. I could particularly use a nice rare Ammy with +skills and teleport, and hopefully some FCR and resists. I'm also short a few summoning charms.

And a big Thank You to the Necro Forum for your help and advice for my off beat project.

 

[JoJeck]

Good luck with your off-beat quest. Keep us informed of your progress and any special tricks you had to employ

 

[Bongo Fury]

I've got my character rushed to Hell, and just about have him and his merc leveled up to 42. I'm in the process of putting his gear together, but I've lost my link to the Faster Hit Recovery breakpoints. Can someone give me a link, or let me know what they are for a Necro.

Thanks Again!

 

[Mad Mantis]

Hit Recovery Rates:

FHR		Frames
0		13
5		12
10		11 
16		10 
26		9
39		8
56		7
86		6
152		5
377		4