Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
- Thread starter RlyehExiled
- Start date
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Thanks for hosting Rlyeh! I had a lot of fun claiming cop before the first night was over.
I agree with most of RE's assessments. For dreams to work as the 6th mafioso, mafia needed to have a better understanding of what they did. Between their abilities and dream effects, mafia had a number of tools to create havoc but they first needed to know what dreams did before they could be used as a tool. The unknown effects turned into a random WIFOMY orgy.
Roles
I like the Missionary role idea but the win con needs some work. Visiting ALL players left alive is a tall order. Gwaihir wasn't even halfway there. How about survivor plus handing out enough wards to form a lynch majority? Sort of like a hidden cult but no one else changes alignment. Gwaihir wouldn't have achieved even that this game, but could have.
Necromage was $$$. Beautiful role. The powers of the necromage are dependent on who was killed and when. N1 with bus driver and vigi deaths are about as powerful as it got. It could have easily instead been missionary and silver seraph (two completely useless roles to the necromage). One shot uses from a dead cop, doc, tracker/watcher, etc are not automatically over the top powerful but the numbers of them can add up.
"The Hammer" - Yes!
Role Thief - One of the most powerful informational roles ever devised. It's fun, quirky, and possibly random, but never underestimate the power of forcing someone to role claim simply from targeting them at night or to cast "detect lie" on someone who has already claimed. SEVERELY limits mafia's ability to lie and get away with it.
I also like the Silver Seraph. Yeah it can create some degenerate situations like Seraph protecting the cop while a doc protects the Seraph. I'm not a big fan of docs anyway, so I love roles like bodyguard and this Seraph to use INSTEAD of a doc.
Martyr (lightning rod), Blessed Child (nexus) - I liked them, but then I like bus driver and bodyguard. There may have been too many of these randomizer roles though. Very WIFOA.
Dreams
Lunar Eclipse was NOT a mistake. It's a power given to pro-town roles. It's a power given to anti-town roles. It's even one of the easiest dreams to guess. It certainly has situational use, but most dreams are that way (or should be).
Good thing Crimson and Azure wasn't spoiled. That would have been bad. That THAT doc!
Were dreams one shot? I may be off in my napkin math, but I don't think mafia can win without running out of one-shot dreams.
Dreams I would have liked to see: global loved status (takes one more vote to lynch), global hated status (takes one less vote to lynch), and global bus driver!
I think Dreaming God may work better as neutral. Certainly to keep with the theme of random effects that could help or hurt any faction.
Balance
I thought mafia were underpowered. Even if given hints about the dreams, I think they were still a bit light. The town loses a bomb and party host through D1 lynch (rendering them useless for hurting scum at night) then loses bus driver and vigi N1 yet the rest of the game seemed to be all town. Mafia never really had a great course of action for dealing with the informational roles.
So much of role madness depends on the first night's actions. Somehow, the bus driver affecting a cop investigation, giving an innocent result on mafia HELPED the town more than hurt. The mafia actions effectively did nothing: I didn't have a night action (and claimed as much), I had already claimed my role, and Autti wasn't investigated. Meanwhile, the rolethief successfully stole the uber day cop but also kept it hidden long enough to put it to good use. Also, the missionary successfully gave a ward to the one person considered so townie as to not lie about receiving the ward.
Day cop being effectively immune to much of mafia's subversive attempts was too powerful. Blocking a day cop at night should have blocked day cop the next day. Global roleblock should have also blocked day cop the next day. I'm not sure if the redirections and tailor/framer would have worked on the day cop but they should have. Don't ignore day time abilities, just account for them.
Then there were 4 townie informational roles with 3 townie protective roles to keep them safe. And a necromage to make use of any roles mafia managed to kill off. The town had very synergistic roles while mafia didn't.
Thanks for hosting Rlyeh! I had a lot of fun claiming cop before the first night was over.
I agree with most of RE's assessments. For dreams to work as the 6th mafioso, mafia needed to have a better understanding of what they did. Between their abilities and dream effects, mafia had a number of tools to create havoc but they first needed to know what dreams did before they could be used as a tool. The unknown effects turned into a random WIFOMY orgy.
Roles
I like the Missionary role idea but the win con needs some work. Visiting ALL players left alive is a tall order. Gwaihir wasn't even halfway there. How about survivor plus handing out enough wards to form a lynch majority? Sort of like a hidden cult but no one else changes alignment. Gwaihir wouldn't have achieved even that this game, but could have.
Necromage was $$$. Beautiful role. The powers of the necromage are dependent on who was killed and when. N1 with bus driver and vigi deaths are about as powerful as it got. It could have easily instead been missionary and silver seraph (two completely useless roles to the necromage). One shot uses from a dead cop, doc, tracker/watcher, etc are not automatically over the top powerful but the numbers of them can add up.
"The Hammer" - Yes!
Role Thief - One of the most powerful informational roles ever devised. It's fun, quirky, and possibly random, but never underestimate the power of forcing someone to role claim simply from targeting them at night or to cast "detect lie" on someone who has already claimed. SEVERELY limits mafia's ability to lie and get away with it.
I also like the Silver Seraph. Yeah it can create some degenerate situations like Seraph protecting the cop while a doc protects the Seraph. I'm not a big fan of docs anyway, so I love roles like bodyguard and this Seraph to use INSTEAD of a doc.
Martyr (lightning rod), Blessed Child (nexus) - I liked them, but then I like bus driver and bodyguard. There may have been too many of these randomizer roles though. Very WIFOA.
Dreams
Lunar Eclipse was NOT a mistake. It's a power given to pro-town roles. It's a power given to anti-town roles. It's even one of the easiest dreams to guess. It certainly has situational use, but most dreams are that way (or should be).
Good thing Crimson and Azure wasn't spoiled. That would have been bad. That THAT doc!
Were dreams one shot? I may be off in my napkin math, but I don't think mafia can win without running out of one-shot dreams.
Dreams I would have liked to see: global loved status (takes one more vote to lynch), global hated status (takes one less vote to lynch), and global bus driver!
I think Dreaming God may work better as neutral. Certainly to keep with the theme of random effects that could help or hurt any faction.
Balance
I thought mafia were underpowered. Even if given hints about the dreams, I think they were still a bit light. The town loses a bomb and party host through D1 lynch (rendering them useless for hurting scum at night) then loses bus driver and vigi N1 yet the rest of the game seemed to be all town. Mafia never really had a great course of action for dealing with the informational roles.
So much of role madness depends on the first night's actions. Somehow, the bus driver affecting a cop investigation, giving an innocent result on mafia HELPED the town more than hurt. The mafia actions effectively did nothing: I didn't have a night action (and claimed as much), I had already claimed my role, and Autti wasn't investigated. Meanwhile, the rolethief successfully stole the uber day cop but also kept it hidden long enough to put it to good use. Also, the missionary successfully gave a ward to the one person considered so townie as to not lie about receiving the ward.
Day cop being effectively immune to much of mafia's subversive attempts was too powerful. Blocking a day cop at night should have blocked day cop the next day. Global roleblock should have also blocked day cop the next day. I'm not sure if the redirections and tailor/framer would have worked on the day cop but they should have. Don't ignore day time abilities, just account for them.
Then there were 4 townie informational roles with 3 townie protective roles to keep them safe. And a necromage to make use of any roles mafia managed to kill off. The town had very synergistic roles while mafia didn't.
flubbucket1
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
But look who gets yelled at for spamming!!!
That's right Glibskankles, an innocent bystander suffering the rage and retardation of others.
Wow, I feel more entitled than ever. I should start an occupy.................../sleepy
But look who gets yelled at for spamming!!!
That's right Glibskankles, an innocent bystander suffering the rage and retardation of others.
Wow, I feel more entitled than ever. I should start an occupy.................../sleepy
flubbucket1
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
I really thought I had screwed the town on that one. Which was odd since I was thoroughly convinced you were mafia and I wasn't changing my vote. Then when there was no reveal, I pictured RE laughing to himself at our misery.
I was actually looking forward to my own lynching. Since I was unlynchable/unkillable, upon my demise in whichever fashion, I would return to the game without the ability to vote.
RE wouldn't allow me to utter "treestump" or "unable to vote" in any form or he would modkill me. I was hoping for the Tom Sawyer moment when I reentered the game after my own funeral. Most likely few tears shed..........haters :tongue:
...And I didn't claim doc on death, I was giving my results on LoZit was rather funny that my role didn't get revealed though.
I really thought I had screwed the town on that one. Which was odd since I was thoroughly convinced you were mafia and I wasn't changing my vote. Then when there was no reveal, I pictured RE laughing to himself at our misery.
I was actually looking forward to my own lynching. Since I was unlynchable/unkillable, upon my demise in whichever fashion, I would return to the game without the ability to vote.
RE wouldn't allow me to utter "treestump" or "unable to vote" in any form or he would modkill me. I was hoping for the Tom Sawyer moment when I reentered the game after my own funeral. Most likely few tears shed..........haters :tongue:
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
I can haz award?
It was just D1 I was killed by Skjolde.
I think I might dial back the posting next day. Most of it was me trying to get information out of Skjolde before I lynched him. I think it was actually 47 (this post is number 49 and I have had two since the end of the game.
Edit: woot I can edit now
Edit2: actually skjolde had 59, I had 47.
I can haz award?
It was just D1 I was killed by Skjolde.
I think I might dial back the posting next day. Most of it was me trying to get information out of Skjolde before I lynched him. I think it was actually 47 (this post is number 49 and I have had two since the end of the game.
Edit: woot I can edit now
Edit2: actually skjolde had 59, I had 47.
Caluin Graye
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Agreed, that win condition seems like it would be much more doable. And yeah, I did get lucky on FoE's ward.
Agreed, that win condition seems like it would be much more doable. And yeah, I did get lucky on FoE's ward.
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Skjolde gets the award, no j00! My bad.
I can haz award?
It was just D1 I was killed by Skjolde.
I think I might dial back the posting next day. Most of it was me trying to get information out of Skjolde before I lynched him. I think it was actually 47 (this post is number 49 and I have had two since the end of the game.
Edit: woot I can edit now
Edit2: actually skjolde had 59, I had 47.
Skjolde gets the award, no j00! My bad.
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Another thing that helped me was RE's announced aversion to cults. I have no idea what people would have done if that had not been said. Because really, if I was a cult leader by the last day I had both cops and 1 night action away from majority. Did anyone else actually think about that?
Another thing that helped me was RE's announced aversion to cults. I have no idea what people would have done if that had not been said. Because really, if I was a cult leader by the last day I had both cops and 1 night action away from majority. Did anyone else actually think about that?
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
You will die many more times absolving all my sins. We'll talk then.
NOT an awful role. A difficult one. You played it well!
You will die many more times absolving all my sins. We'll talk then.
NOT an awful role. A difficult one. You played it well!
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
I actually think it was a good role and would have loved having it. It was well used too, taking mutliple shots.
I actually think it was a good role and would have loved having it. It was well used too, taking mutliple shots.
LozHinge the Unhinged
Active member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Gory, the info I had on the other role was as detailed in my role PM - I was told I was a 100% Doc, as opposed to the other Doc who was only 50% - although I don't see that role listed! :scratchchin:
Gory, the info I had on the other role was as detailed in my role PM - I was told I was a 100% Doc, as opposed to the other Doc who was only 50% - although I don't see that role listed! :scratchchin:
RlyehExiled
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
@Gory and Loz: Loz's role was called faith healer, and his PM stated he worked 100% of the time and wasn't a faith healer, and that I just liked the name for the flavor.
@Gory and Loz: Loz's role was called faith healer, and his PM stated he worked 100% of the time and wasn't a faith healer, and that I just liked the name for the flavor.
RlyehExiled
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Missionary I think I took the idea from a role called ignighter, which is a 1 shot vig/SK that can ethier "prime" a player each night or kill all primed players, the skill to maxamsing that role is to, like missionary, guess who will not be lynched NK'd. Ignighter also has the added timing thing, use the skill too soon and you get too little bang, use it too late and well you can't use it cause you're dead.
Missionary I think I took the idea from a role called ignighter, which is a 1 shot vig/SK that can ethier "prime" a player each night or kill all primed players, the skill to maxamsing that role is to, like missionary, guess who will not be lynched NK'd. Ignighter also has the added timing thing, use the skill too soon and you get too little bang, use it too late and well you can't use it cause you're dead.
