Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

jiansonz

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Jun 22, 2003
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Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

As I am making progress in Act I Hell in the Random Tourney 2012 I have noticed something weird. I think it happened with my last Paladin, too, but now I have paid more attention.

Conversion is a Paladin attack skill that will (with each swing) have a chance to convert a monster over to your side for 16 seconds. After 16 seconds, it will go back to being your enemy (but will usually keep your aura around for a second or two more, which can be nasty if you run something like maxed Concentration and don't watch out. Speaking from experience here...).

What I have noticed is that, very often, the re-Converted monster will now die from one hit from my merc, and also often from one hit from other monsters that are under the effect of Conversion. We are talking Hell /players 3 monsters here. Take some basic Skeletons in the Crypt, for example. They have life in the thousands. If you Convert one and it's figthing another Skeleton, they can beat on each other forever, and barely take any damage since their hits do such a small amount of damage compared to their amount of life. Even one hit from my Pally (who wields a rather weak javelin), be it a regular Attack or another Conversion attack that actually hits, will usually kill them. I tested with my puny Smite attack (does an average of 15 damage or so). It takes 5-6 Smites to kill them in this state! So it looks like they get reduced to less than 100 life.

These weird victims will give XP and items as usual, so the bug works in my favour most of the time. The times it does not is when I want to Convert them again so they can tank a boss.


What's this whole thing about? I do not remember reading anything about this anywhere.
 
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Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

This is one of the various conversion bugs. I noticed this once, but now while trying to reproduce it I got another bug. ( I tested it with fists - low damage ). If I convert using fists, and then it unconverts, any hit with the fist will instantly re convert it.

Some relevant threads I dug up
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?211897-Conversion-kill-bug
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?424183-Conversion-bug-)
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?382742-is-this-a-new-bug-for-paladin

Conversion is a very buggy skill in general. Don't use it.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

This mechanic helped my 1.07 Assassin kill some of the tough baddies in hell. Mind blast conversion was treated the same.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

According to the AB's wiki (based on research by onderduiker), this happens when your character level is less than the converted monster's level. If your character's level is the same as or more than the converted monster's level, this drastic drop in monsters' life doesn't happen.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

IIRC, after unconverting the monster's hitpoints gets set to one... so if your mercenary/minion/trap/weapon/whatever does any damage before the monster has much chance to regenerate, it's basically an auto-kill on the first successful attack.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

According to the AB's wiki (based on research by onderduiker), this happens when your character level is less than the converted monster's level. If your character's level is the same as or more than the converted monster's level, this drastic drop in monsters' life doesn't happen.

Aha! I did see that it does not always happen, but this was a pattern I did not pick up on. Makes sense that it always happened in the Crypt (high area level). Big thanks for this info.

TheWorkingBoor said:
IIRC, after unconverting the monster's hitpoints gets set to one...

It did not look like one point of life, more like 70-100 since the monsters did not die from one of my very low damage Smite attacks. Each hit removed about 1/5 of the life bar, so it did not look like I was working against some high speed regeneration, more that the total life of the monster (even at full health) suddenly dropped to a fraction of what it was before.



@zaphodbrx: thanks for the links to those threads. Interesting reading.

But why do you say this:
@zaphodbrx said:
Conversion is a very buggy skill in general. Don't use it.


So you think I should't use a skill that:

1. is one of the cornerstones of the build of my current character
2. among other things, allowed a very elegant solution to handling PI Griswold (merc was impossible to keep alive without constant potion use (since he could not leech life), but a single Carver could repeatedly be used as tank while my Pally whipped out some mighty Vengeance with his big polearm. Without a tank, this Vengeance use could have been deadly dangerous since Griswold would have been able to hit back
3. is my favourite Paladin skill

No way I am giving that up (especially now that I know better how it works).



 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

Of course, you should use the spell if you like it. I just don't like bugs in the game.
I tried a conversion + thorns paladin a long while ago, the idea being that monsters would hit each other and receive extra damage. Unfortunately the fatal flaw was that when the monster converted back, it would still have the thorns aura and any hit would result in near instant death. That, and the fact that thorns doesn't work well after normal mode, due to increased monster hit points.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

Yes, I know about the lingering aura problem, that's why I do not use Thorns in combo with Conversion.


IMO, the best way to play with Thorns is to play a Necromancer and hire a Thorns merc. This way, you can use Amplify Damage to get a much better effect. You can also use a golem and e.g. Revives to have the damage returning happen several places at once. And of course CE can clean up nicely (and the monsters are already Amped...).

The build is not effective in most of Hell, but it is reasonably effective against some of the more dangerous monsters (the hard hitters).
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

^I was trying to come up with a build idea awhile back that would involve a necromancer with super synergised bone armor, that would utilize thorns aura on several things, as well as iron maiden (amp damage would be better?). I thought bone armor would provide huge safety, as well as high fcr and fhr would allow fast recasting? I'm not too sure if it could be used effectively, though.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

That's pretty cool. Knowing something like this is viable, I might eventually go about making one.
 
Re: Re-Converted monsters' life getting dramatically reduced?

I'm curious: Has anyone tried converting scarab demon beetles to see how they interact with non-converted scarab demon beetles? Because it seemed to cause cascading lightning bursts when I did it.
 
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