Please help this Javazon rule the earth

[FrostBurn]

Please help this Javazon rule the earth

Hey All,

Well, the time's coming for the 6th in my septavirate. My Javazon, who will start her quest on 1st August 2006. I have, over several days, read all the javazon guides.
There is Nightfish's WS K Amazon Guide.
Flux's LF Javazon Guide is immensely detailed and a great read to grasp the basics.
Jek's Lightning Amazon Guide is well structured and emphasizes the lightning skills.

But the guide that I am most impressed and in-tune with is Nidlav's LF/PJ Javazon Guide. Poison is seldom used by many characters, and Plague Javelin offers some good poison damage over time against LIs. Here is my twist on the build:
Stats
Str: Enough for gear
Dex: Max block
Vit: Everything else
Erg: Zilch

Gear
Helm: Harlequin Crest sox with pTopaz
Amulet: Mara's 25 resist all
Weapon: Titan's Revenge
Shield: Stormshield sox with pDiamond (or Um rune depending on HF drops)
Switch: Upgraded Witchwild String (or Eaglehorn for the ITD)
Armour: Skullder's Ire sox with Um rune (or Vipermagi 34 with Um rune)
Gloves: Soul Drainer for the mana leech (or Trang's for the +25% poison damage)
Ring1: Ravenfrost
Ring2: SoJ
Belt: Razortail
Boots: War Traveler 46% MF
5 Java Skillers (some of Life and Sustenance)
Gheed's Fortune 36% MF
Small Charms of MF or Lightning Resistance (aiming for 75% LR)

This setup gives +8 all skills, and a further +7 javelin skills. Assuming clvl 95 (achievable for me), the skill layout is as follows:
Javelin Skills
Lightning Fury slvl 35, 36 bolts, 1-1598 damage
Charged Strike slvl 35, 10 bolts, 3-2246 damage
Plague Javelin slvl 35, +336% AR, 36105-36338 over 16.6 secs, or 2182 per 1 sec
Poison Javelin slvl 35, 44004-44308 over 76 secs, or 581 per 1 sec (last skill to be maxed)
Jab slvl 16, +145% AR, +30% damage

Passive and Magic Skills
Valkyrie slvl 17, 1936 life, +400% damage, +720% AR, +160% defence bonus
1 point in all other skills

Bow Skills
Multiple Shot slvl 9, 10 arrows
Guided Arrow slvl 9, +40% damage
Strafe slvl 9, Attacks up to 10 targets, +45% damage
(note: I am not sure on these; see question 3 below)

Having never played an Amazon before, I would appreciate some help with the following questions please:
1. Clearly LF and CS compliment each other well, but can I do without Lightning Strike? I understand that LS is ideal for non-LIs that are spread out. Without LS, I'll have to LF or CS them individually. Is this too much of a hassle?

2. No discredit to Nightfish, but I calculated that Freezing Arrow, with +283% AR, would only do 1638-1672 damage. Compared to this setup's PJ that does 2182 damage per second over 16.6 secs. Throw and forget, so to speak, against LIs. And if I put on Trang's gloves... So is going the poison route sound, or does it turn out differently in practice? (also note that by going for a secondary attack in the javelin tree, I utilise the java skillers, which would not be the case if I went with 20 Cold Arrow and 20 Freezing Arrow).

3. Going through Arreat Summit's monster stats, there are only two WSK monsters that will pose a serious problem; Gloams and Horror Mages, both of which are LI and Poison Immune. The Horror Mages can be dealt with by Jab, or WWS on switch. The Gloams are a different story, as they have 90% physical resistance as well. Should I get Strafe to use against them with WWS, hoping for 2% CtC Amplify Damage to trigger? Or should I use Multiple Shot and save some points? Or should I not bother with the bow skills and rely on WWS's slvl 20 Magic Arrow to deal with them?

4. Continuing with the bow on switch dilemma, will my AR suck so much that I'll hardly hit anything? If yes, should I switch to an Eaglehorn with its ITD? Or are there other bows you would recommend? I don't have a WF, but I have all the others.

5. Strafe breakpoints for WWS:
-10 WSM Bow
0% IAS 13/3
2% IAS 12/3
13% IAS 11/3
15% IAS 10/3
37% IAS 9/3
60% IAS 9/2
80% IAS 8/2
If I do go with the WWS, is it worth socketing with ShaelShael for a 9/3 strafe? Considering Next Delay in this thread, and the fact that I'll use the WWS only for WSK Gloams, can I put up with an extra 13 - 9 = initial 4 frames and use the 2 sockets for something else?

6. I'm going with a Might merc, but is putting The Reaper's Toll on him a good idea considering that I'm hoping WWS's Amplify Damage will trigger when I'm fighting WSK Gloams? Obviously, -100% physical resistance is better than -50% from Reaper's Decrepify, and I don't want my merc over-riding WWS's Amp Damage.

7. Initially, I was planning on getting a slvl 27 Valkyrie, because she gets Tiara at slvl 27, Amulet at slvl 25, Colossus Girdle at slvl 23, Myrmidon Greaves at slvl 21 and Crusader Gauntlets at slvl 19, all of them rare items. When I build a Mageazon with full Mavina's set, I'll aim for slvl 27. But should my Javazon also aim for slvl 27? Some of those rare items can spawn with great mods. But if I do go with slvl 27, I'll have to compromise my Poison Javelin synergy, or even ditch poison altogether. Is a slvl 27 Valkyrie worth the sacrifice to other skills for a Javazon?

8. And lastly, I like to play at higher player settings for the challenge and experience (aiming for clvl 95), so this build is geared towards high damage output. I think the lightning skills will do fine, but how about the poison against LIs? I've got a feeling that none of the bow skills would cope well with higher player settings.

Ok, this turned out much longer than I had hoped. Sorry about that, but better one long thread than five separate ones cluttering up the forum. I would love your feedback. Thanks!

 

[Noodle]

My LF/PJ zon is level 93, and I love her. She uses Gimmershred on switch for the rare times when Pindleskin spawns LI/PI. Plague Jav is awesome for leveling through nightmare with as well. Some of my funnest times in DII were running forward in Act III, triggering a horde of maniacal little midgets, tossing a PJ, and running away cackling. You wait a second, walk back, and there everything is laying dead on the ground. Plus, if you MP, it's a damage source that not many others will be likely to have, so it's likely to be very useful.

My original 1.10 LF/PJ zon was untwinked, and made it to level 90 on B.Net playing exclusively in one player passworded games. She was absolute murder in the Pit, with the PJ easily taking down LI archers.

In short, I recommend this build very highly. Your setup looks excellent. PJ will work at higher players settings, albeit a bit more slowly, and my SP one in particular does Pindle at /P8 maybe a second more slowly than she does at /P1, if that helps at all.

Best of luck! I'd love to keep posted on what build you end up going with, and how you fare.

PJ worked quite effectively on gloams, btw.

- Noodle

 

[FrostBurn]

Correction to question 5. I provided the wrong WSM for Witchwild String. It should read like this:

5. Strafe breakpoints for WWS:
0 WSM Bow
0% IAS 13/3
13% IAS 12/3
26% IAS 11/3
29% IAS 10/3
56% IAS 9/3
86% IAS 9/2
113% IAS 8/2
If I do go with the WWS, is it worth socketing with ShaelShael for a 10/3 strafe? Considering Next Delay in this thread, and the fact that I'll use the WWS only for WSK Gloams, can I put up with an extra initial 3 frames (13 - 10) and use the 2 sockets for something else?

 

[nebux1]

WSK gloams are easy with Tiamat+ Demon'arch and jab away. aven an upped WWS doesn't do enought damage to them as they have hight PI rez, so waiting for Amp to trigger is bad. what i'm doing is just skip them and in the throne switch to tiamat and merc decrep and your set

 

[salvo]

1. A well placed LF against wall = double damage, If you're not playing at p8 it won't be a problem at all.

2. PJ have long delay but FA freezes enemy for increased safety

3. Merc with reapers tol is the best, WWS amp is not triggered often enough. Use demonlimb Enchant charge for more fire damage.

4. Eaglehorn and WWS are better than WF for this build IMO, our AR is quite low since we invest a lot in str for SS.

5. no idea

6. answered above

7. The valk is not worth it, keep her slvl17 with items

8. This build is not for WSK P8, many times when I meet deadly combination of monsters like gloam & radament, OK's & putid defiler, and such, even my l33t zon is having a lot of trouble, need long time, and several merc deaths to finish them.

Two humble suggestion:

1, If you're not going to max Strafe, I say don't put any point on it at all. If you want to run area 85 only it is better to max it but boss run as a cost.

2. You must put a high lite absorb gear whether wispy or Tgod, otherwise you won't survive a lot of gloam. Your merc must have max LR and Blackhorn face too to survive and help you against gloams. You don't really need to worry about DR and other resist than lighting.

 

[crazy_bear]

2. No discredit to Nightfish, but I calculated that Freezing Arrow, with +283% AR, would only do 1638-1672 damage. Compared to this setup's PJ that does 2182 damage per second over 16.6 secs. Throw and forget, so to speak, against LIs. And if I put on Trang's gloves... So is going the poison route sound, or does it turn out differently in practice? (also note that by going for a secondary attack in the javelin tree, I utilise the java skillers, which would not be the case if I went with 20 Cold Arrow and 20 Freezing Arrow).

My main comment here is on this. While the damage from Freezing Arrow isn't as much per shot, remember you get 3 shots per second at 9 frames plus the freezing helps out too. With a few charms you can shut down non-CI monsters very quickly.

That said, I think your build will be solid too, and I wouldn't anticipate too many problems.
CB

 

[SiTro]

Not much to add here really (I'm not sure on most of your questions), but I'm currently trying out pretty much the same build. NFzon with the Freezing Arrow swapped out for a poison Javelin skill and synergy.

My plan is:

20 Lightning Fury
20 Charged Strike
20 Plague Javelin
20 Poison Javelin
1 Critical Strike
1 Penetrate
1 Pierce

It's an untwinked character, so I don't yet know my end-game stuff, but I'm hoping to find a few +skills to bump up my one point wonders there. Can't say much at the moment however as she's just about to take on Normal Mephisto.

Good luck with your own project!

 

[nepeta]

Some gear suggestions: Get some eth upped titan's, it's worth it. Gloves: Shake the trangs/soul drainers, get +2/20/xxx gloves, also worth it. Swap the SoJ for a dual leech ring, you're going to need high leech if you're to play at higher player settings.
Don't go max block. If you were concentrating on ChargedStrike it might be argued to do, but with hybrids it's a waste, everything in vita. Hence, no SS. If you're RWM use spirit, otherwise Mosers/HHglory.
Another thing: don't go 3-way: choose either cold bow skills as backup or PJ. For speed, you might want the freezing setup. About PJ: it's too slow.
Yet another thing: For speed, ditch the merc, and get a decent level of valk. You're gonna run fast with this baby, and mercs just can't keep up. You could also ditch the valk as well, and just freeze/LF everything. However, I like to be able to have a tank, if for instance something nasty turns up (PI/EF/xxx moon lords for example), you're gonna need something to take the pain for ya.

Other than this: have fun I know I had,

 

[Atil]

Some gear suggestions: Get some eth upped titan's, it's worth it.

FrostBurn, if you want to follow nepeta's suggestion, you can have these to start. (You will need to upgrade them yourself):

Titan's Revenge
Ceremonial Javelin
Throw Damage: 100 to 275
One-Hand Damage: 100 to 195
Quantity: 140
(Amazon Only)
Required Dexterity: 109
Required Strength: 25
Required Level: 42
Javelin Class - Fast Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 87
Fingerprint: 0xa87db79e
+20 to Strength
+20 to Dexterity
+179% Enhanced Damage
+25 to Minimum Damage
+50 to Maximum Damage
5% Life stolen per hit
+2 to Amazon Skill Levels
30% Faster Run/Walk
+2 to Javelin and Spear Skills (Amazon Only)
Replenishes Quantity
Increased Stack Size
Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired)

v1.11b vanilla SC

 

[FrostBurn]

My LF/PJ zon is level 93, and I love her. She uses Gimmershred on switch for the rare times when Pindleskin spawns LI/PI.

PJ will work at higher players settings, albeit a bit more slowly, and my SP one in particular does Pindle at /P8 maybe a second more slowly than she does at /P1, if that helps at all.

Best of luck! I'd love to keep posted on what build you end up going with, and how you fare.

Do you have any AR issues when using Gimmershred?

Good to hear about the PJ taking only slightly longer at higher player settings.

I'll certainly stick up a Mat thread when I'm done.

WSK gloams are easy with Tiamat+ Demon'arch and jab away. aven an upped WWS doesn't do enought damage to them as they have hight PI rez, so waiting for Amp to trigger is bad. what i'm doing is just skip them and in the throne switch to tiamat and merc decrep and your set

A very good idea. I had not given Demon's Arch and Tiamat enough thought. Tiamat has up to 35 resist all, only 5 short of WWS. WSK Gloams have no fire resistance. And a merc with Reaper's at 33% CtC will knock down their physical resistance to 40%, helping Jab do more damage. Still, at higher player settings, the fire damage is a little low, and 40% physical resistance still a little high.....

I was hoping WWS with Strafe would trigger Amp within seconds, bringing down their physical resistance to -10%. Then Deadly Strike would trigger 90% of the time for a clvl 90 amazon. That's a lot of damage to a -10% physical resistance WSK Gloam. But it sounds like you're saying that WWS's 2% CtC Amp will take just too long before triggering?

3. Merc with reapers tol is the best, WWS amp is not triggered often enough. Use demonlimb Enchant charge for more fire damage.

4. Eaglehorn and WWS are better than WF for this build IMO, our AR is quite low since we invest a lot in str for SS.

2. You must put a high lite absorb gear whether wispy or Tgod, otherwise you won't survive a lot of gloam. Your merc must have max LR and Blackhorn face too to survive and help you against gloams. You don't really need to worry about DR and other resist than lighting.

Another vote against the WWS. Thanks for the suggestions and answering all the questions.

While the damage from Freezing Arrow isn't as much per shot, remember you get 3 shots per second at 9 frames plus the freezing helps out too. With a few charms you can shut down non-CI monsters very quickly.

A 9 frame attack with FA? May I ask what bow you are using and what amount of IAS? So with a FA of 1638-1672 damage, that translates to 4914-5016 damage per 27 frames. Whereas my PJ does 2182 damage per 25 frames. That does make a difference.

Some gear suggestions: Get some eth upped titan's, it's worth it. Gloves: Shake the trangs/soul drainers, get +2/20/xxx gloves, also worth it.
Don't go max block. If you were concentrating on ChargedStrike it might be argued to do, but with hybrids it's a waste, everything in vita. Hence, no SS. If you're RWM use spirit, otherwise Mosers/HHglory.
For speed, you might want the freezing setup. About PJ: it's too slow.
However, I like to be able to have a tank, if for instance something nasty turns up (PI/EF/xxx moon lords for example), you're gonna need something to take the pain for ya.

I'll certainly use those items when I get my hands on them.
Vanilla for me. I might be able to go max block and still have decent life; we'll see.
A third vote against PJ. I just like the poison idea, but if it's not practical...
I'll definitely get a Valkyrie at slvl 17. She's way too cool not to get.

FrostBurn, if you want to follow nepeta's suggestion, you can have these to start. (You will need to upgrade them yourself)

Thanks Atil. Very generous of you. But I'm completely self-found. I have very good luck in finding Titan's Revenge javelins, but apart from one which has over 195% ed (but only 5% ll), all the others are mediocre at best. And none are eth.

I'd appreciate any more replies to my queries in my starter post. Thanks.

 

[RTB]

Note that the ar% bonus on all of the amazon's ranged skills does not work. Pump penetrate if you want to hit with skills other than the auto-hit ones.

 

[crazy_bear]

A 9 frame attack with FA? May I ask what bow you are using and what amount of IAS? So with a FA of 1638-1672 damage, that translates to 4914-5016 damage per 27 frames. Whereas my PJ does 2182 damage per 25 frames. That does make a difference.

I looked up short seige bow on the german weapon calculator to come up with the 9 frame number. I can't connect to it right now for some reason or I'd post an IAS table for it. IIRC it was around 65 IAS to get to 9 frames. Looking at your gear you seem to have no IAS at all though! But it wouldn't be too hard to reach that speed.

Runewords with Matriarchal bow work well too. Passion isn't too expensive, and gives HoW charges which will boost AR and damage (admittedly only minimally at lvl 3 though) I believe matriarchal bows are the fastest bow type.

 

[crazy_bear]

Too late for an edit: here are the tables, note that for a fast bow like a matriarchal bow an 8 frame attack is quite feasable.

Bow Normal attack speeds for Amazon:

WSM 0 (Short Seige Bow)
IAS	Frames 
0 %	13
9 %	12
20 %	11
37 %	10
63 %	9
105 %	8
200 %	7

WSM 10 (Crusader Bow / Hydra Bow / Ceremonial Bow)
IAS	Frames
0 %	15
5 %	14
11 %	13
22 %	12
35 %	11
56 %	10
89 %	9
147 %	8
292 %	7

WSM -10 (Matriachal Bow, Double Bow)
IAS	Frames
0 %	12
8 %	11
22 %	10
42 %	9
75 %	8
142 %	7

 

[FrostBurn]

Right, after going through my notes yet again and even more research, I'm sticking with the poison route as a secondary attack.

Firstly, at some point I'll make use of my full Mavina's set to build a Mageazon (using Freezing Arrow and Immolation Arrow), so I don't want to use FA again on my Javazon.

Secondly, I have enough +skills in the javelin tree to get PJ to a respectable level (even for a /p4-5 game), and I want to take advantage of that, as well as the cool look of poison.

Thirdly, AS's bestiary shows that for LI monsters, the vast majority of them have greater cold resistance compared to poison resistance. Even if I used a 9 frame bow attack with FA (ahievable only if I sacrifice +skills) to do more damage over 27 frames compared to PJ's 2182 damage per 25 frames, most LI monsters will resist the FA damage more than the PJ damage, which kind of evens it out.

Also, I dug this up in my stash:
Bramble Claw
Demonhide Gloves
Defense: 51
Durability: 9 of 12
Required Strength: 20
Required Level: 35
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 86
Fingerprint: 0xf5854743
+42% Enhanced Defense
Fire Resist +16%
7% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
20% Increased Attack Speed
+2 to Javelin and Spear Skills (Amazon Only)
10% Chance to cast Level 3 Nova when struck <--- this will look cool on a LF-zon

With 20% IAS, I only need another Shael in the WWS to reach a 10 frame normal attack speed, leaving the other socket free for perhaps a jewel of burning to annoy those WSK Gloams even more.

Pity that there is no mana leech, and depending on how much mana I use up, I may have to either rely on mana pots or swap out the SoJ for a mana leech rare ring.

The merc will be a Might merc using Reaper's, since WWS's 2% CtC Amp may not trigger often enough, even with Strafe. Valkyrie at slvl 17. Max block with SS (I just don't like the idea of CS Lister without max block and PDR).

I'm still a little uncertain about my chance to hit with WWS. Penetrate will be at about slvl 10. Ravenfrost will help with my AR. But is this enough to hit sufficiently well against WSK Gloams? Is relying on WWS's slvl 20 Magic Arrow a viable alternative? And again, is it better to rely on Multiple Shot or Strafe when battling WSK Gloams? Any Straferzons or WWS-zons out there who can help with these questions?

 

[jantia]

Personally, having tried both a strafe/lf/cs build and a Fa/lf/cs build, I say go with FA if you want to do well against gloams. First of all multi sucks against gloams because they usually come in packs of 5 and they're the only thing's you'll worry about (given you've cleared out the rest with LS). If you have 2 packs of gloams you're going to die if you try to kill them with multi.

Secondly, strafe lock is pretty gg against gloams, especially with the low life you're goign to have with such a high investment in strength for SS. Thirdly without high dex you simply won't kill quickly enough compared to FA (chance to hit won't be pretty). It "can" work, but I found the FA route to be far safer AND faster.

 

[FrostBurn]

Titan's Revenge
Required Dexterity: 109
Required Strength: 25
Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired)

The above Titan's is eth, but it has the requirements of a normal Titan's. Aren't ethereal items supposed to have -10 to both their strength and dexterity requirements? Or are throwing class type weapons the exception? Similarly, if I upgrade an eth pair, I guess (judging from above) that the req will be 107 str and 151 dex (the normal requirements), and not 97 str and 141 dex?

 

[Randall]

Too late for an edit: here are the tables, note that for a fast bow like a matriarchal bow an 8 frame attack is quite feasable.

Not to mention that if you have a plain matriarchal bow with +3 bow skills and you put the runeword melody in there you have a bow with +6 bow skills (FA), 20% IAS (45% more for 8fps) and knockback.

Randall

EDIT:
"Aren't ethereal items supposed to have -10 to both their strength and dexterity requirements?"
Yes, IIRC: that is a display bug in ATMA

 

[FrostBurn]

EDIT:
"Aren't ethereal items supposed to have -10 to both their strength and dexterity requirements?"
Yes, IIRC: that is a display bug in ATMA

Ah right! Which is why Atil's ATMA readout of his ethereal Titan's shows the normal requirements. In-game, his eth Titan's can be equipped at 15 str and 99 dex, instead of the usual 25/109.

So an upgraded eth Titan's can be equipped at 97 str and 141 dex, and not the usual 107/151.

 

[Lompo]

Frostburn you said you'll be using a might merc., but wouldn't you benefit more from a Holy freeze merc. (chilled and slowed Gloams looks less nasty)?

 

[FrostBurn]

WSK Gloams (Burning Souls and Black Souls) cannot be chilled and cannot be frozen by conventional cold attacks. From in-game observations, it also appears that they cannot be slowed/chilled by the Holy Freeze aura. I have a clvl 96 Holy Freeze merc, and his aura spans the entire screen, but WSK Gloams seem unaffected. They move and attack as if they have not been 'Holy Frozen'.

A Might merc will help improve my Javazon's physical damage, her Valkyrie's physical damage and the merc's own damage as well. At the moment, none of my gear has any mana leech, and I may need to swap out something for that mana leech. If so, the Might merc is even more important to increase the mana leeched.