Ye, I think you may be at a slight disadvantage :loving:
I also believe your sanity is more intact.
Pharphis's 75K /p3 AT run thread - Help needed!
- Thread starter pharphis
- Start date
Ye, I think you may be at a slight disadvantage :loving:
I also believe your sanity is more intact.
I join the race.... at /p1 haha
I do not think I will ever reach the finish, but I might get a nice chunk into lvl 98 in 1-2 years, just need to make sure to die less as once each 10.000 runs, which is easy compared to you crazy HC guys that can never die.
I do not think I will ever reach the finish, but I might get a nice chunk into lvl 98 in 1-2 years, just need to make sure to die less as once each 10.000 runs, which is easy compared to you crazy HC guys that can never die.
I still can't believe I haven't died with this char.
A friendly race sounds awesome! We're both at a disadvantage for different reasons. I'm in my 3rd yr of university now, which gives me very little time to play. Certainly not enough to finish in a year or 2, so I'm hoping to finish in 3-4 years.
A friendly race sounds awesome! We're both at a disadvantage for different reasons. I'm in my 3rd yr of university now, which gives me very little time to play. Certainly not enough to finish in a year or 2, so I'm hoping to finish in 3-4 years.
- Jan 3, 2007
- 9,174
- 967
- 113
Great! So it's us 3, with EasyG having the most experience with running AT? Even if it takes long - some friendly competition might keep us more motivated after the first 30k runs or so :badteeth:
Having a job and a baby isn't really compatible with racing to 99 either :wink: But I still have ace up my sleeve: My Blizz sorc didn't fight Hell Ancients yet :evil2:
Having a job and a baby isn't really compatible with racing to 99 either :wink: But I still have ace up my sleeve: My Blizz sorc didn't fight Hell Ancients yet :evil2:
Dont worry, I also have a full time job + other stuff. Like I wrote in the elite runners thread, my goal is 100 runs average a day, some weeks 0, some weeks 1500. The race is on!
Since you wrote this, after each blue sacred armor, I think: I should have listened to Fabian...
Since you wrote this, after each blue sacred armor, I think: I should have listened to Fabian...
Yeah.. I was stupid and wanted to Guardian after I reached 92.8ish and the Pre-D3 MFO was over. I was just excited about making it this far in HC. Woops 
I agree that DF, nightwings veil, Snowclash etc. is the best if looking at pure damage. BUT thats not all to a build, especially not an MF build and in HC.
My recommendation was based on the fact that you get great res with Tal along with nice MF and 15 procent added cold damage, no it doesnt match DFs 20 to 30, but its still quite nice
Another point to be made is that you can add a less than perfect facet to a tal wep, something I wouldnt do in a DF.
- Jan 3, 2007
- 9,174
- 967
- 113
I interpreted your first post that you would recommend full Tal's over all other equipment possibilites, that's why I disagreed. I agree that it's a good set overall, but efficiency is much better with partial Tal's and safety isn't necessarily worse. I for example have maxed resists for Cold, Fire, Lightning with 3 Tal's. If you use complete set over 3 piece tal's, you will miss the following relevant mods (I didn't include Defense, %LL, %ML, FM, LM:I agree that DF, nightwings veil, Snowclash etc. is the best if looking at pure damage. BUT thats not all to a build, especially not an MF build and in HC.
My recommendation was based on the fact that you get great res with Tal along with nice MF and 15 procent added cold damage, no it doesnt match DFs 20 to 30, but its still quite nice
+4 to all skills
65% Res all
+2 Cold Mastery
+127 Mana (includes the +10 ENE from Lidless Eye)
+117 Life
30% FCR
15% Cold Skill Damage
With DF and Shako you get:
+5 to all skills
25-40% Fire and Lightning Resist
15-30% Cold Skill Damage
20% FCR
+142 Life (clvl 95)
+142 Mana
10% Damage Reduction
50% MF
So the only big benefit is 10% FCR, +1 CM, and the big resist boost.
You lose 10% PDR, 50%MF, 0-15% Cold Skill Damage, +1 Skill level, some life and mana.
Now, as I said, I get maxed resists with only 3 pieces of Tal's set and DF with only mediocre charms (no arsenal of 11%resist/7%MF SCs), so the only benefit would be 10% FCR and +1 CM and better resists against Conviction bosses, against which I never had problems.
I'm curious: Why wouldn't you put a non-perfect facet in DF? You can remove it anytime you find a better one...
Would you mind if I joined the race?
I am SC, lvl 94 at the moment, doing Trav runs. I will probably do some more (hoping to find that Jah) and was planning to run Baal afterwards, but this sounds like fun! I mostly do runs at /p7 as I enjoy seeing the XP bar progressing :badteeth:
I am SC, lvl 94 at the moment, doing Trav runs. I will probably do some more (hoping to find that Jah) and was planning to run Baal afterwards, but this sounds like fun! I mostly do runs at /p7 as I enjoy seeing the XP bar progressing :badteeth:
First off you get 150 life from the set + what lidless gives. Secondly loosing 10 FCR means loosing a SoJ, unless you wanna be a lot slower runner. Thirdly if you dont need 50 all resists you must either have shimmering grand charms or have used UM or the like because otherwise I dont see you reaching 75 in all resists. Again Im not saying you cannot make a really good sorc with DF and perhaps youll even be a little better, all Im saying is if a couple of cold skillers is all it takes, then it seems a lot easier to achieve without DF. Regarding the facet I just dont like waisting them, and you can always use a lidless with a less than perfect facet
Sorry maybe I wasnt clear Im talking about lidless eye the Tal wep, NOT lidless wall. My suggestion requires perfect spirit
I actually fiddled with a skill planer to see the difference. If we are saying both builds will have 105 FCR then a few skillers does indeed shift the balance to the tal set. In the following I took a setup with Tal Set + two sojs and spirit giving a total of + 10 sorc skill levels and then added three cold skillers. Thats like having three shimmering to gain resists.
That give the following result: http://www.diablofans.com/page/tool...11k0kk00j01100010000100000000l0l10l3l0l0lal00
Thats an average of 5384 Blizz damage. add to that 15 procent cold damage + a 5 facet that gives you 5384 x 1.20 thats 6461.
Now with DF but without cold skillers you get:http://www.diablofans.com/page/tool...11k0kk00j01100010000100000000l0l10l0l0l0lal00
Thats average of 4598 blizz damage. Now with a decent DF with 25 + cold damage and a 5 facet we get: 4598 x 1.30 thats 5977.
That give the following result: http://www.diablofans.com/page/tool...11k0kk00j01100010000100000000l0l10l3l0l0lal00
Thats an average of 5384 Blizz damage. add to that 15 procent cold damage + a 5 facet that gives you 5384 x 1.20 thats 6461.
Now with DF but without cold skillers you get:http://www.diablofans.com/page/tool...11k0kk00j01100010000100000000l0l10l0l0l0lal00
Thats average of 4598 blizz damage. Now with a decent DF with 25 + cold damage and a 5 facet we get: 4598 x 1.30 thats 5977.
Very useful thread. I currently have a 94.5~ Blizzer running AT and Mephisto
Goodluck with the 99 Phar!
Goodluck with the 99 Phar!
- Jan 3, 2007
- 9,174
- 967
- 113
@Korlic: Yeah, I missed the +150 Life from the full set. My mistake.
DF: Light +35%, Fire +37%
Tal's Armor: Cold, Light, Fire +40%
Tal's Ammy: Light +33%
Spirit: Cold, Light, Poison +35%
Trang Gloves (better than Magefist for pure Cold IMHO because of the Cold resist): Cold +30%
Scintillating Ring of Fortune: +12 res all/23% MF
Rare Ring (10% FCR, +19 STR, +18 Life, Cold 14%, Fire 22%)
Small Charms: 13% Cold, 36% Fire, 8% Light, 11% Poison (7%MF/5% Cold) (6%MF/5% Fire) (2 STR/11% Fire) (11 Life/10% Fire) (7%MF/11% Poison) (7%MF/8% Cold) (7%MF/8% Light) (6%MF/10%Fire). The rest is Gheed's (40% MF), stack of keys, 24x 7%MF SC, Cube.
Total: +147% Fire, +144% Cold, +163% Lightning, +58% Poison. With only 2 inventory space slots "wasted" for +11 life and +2 STR (=4 Life). So no need for Shimmering Charms My inventory is full, the only space to put items is the cube. So I could easily put in 3 skillers, but would lose 63% MF. Since kill speed is more than enough with lv 29 fully synergized Blizzard and level 29 CM, no need for skillers.
But yes, if I wanted even more damage while keeping my char safe, Tal's might be the better solution. But it all comes down to what you want your character for and how you want to balance it: MF/survival/killing speed. I found my setup to be the best solution for the equipment I have. If I want to boost one aspect (MF, speed or survival),it would be at the cost of another one.
With your setup, you get the same killing speed and slightly better survivability (+125 Life, overstacked resists), but less MF. MFing is an important part of what I do, and survivability is already great for me, so I chose my way
But thank you for your analysis! Acutally, I have now a higher opinion of Full Tal's for single tree builds than before :nod:
Nice comparison! But I don't need shimmering GCs. Here's my setup:
DF: Light +35%, Fire +37%
Tal's Armor: Cold, Light, Fire +40%
Tal's Ammy: Light +33%
Spirit: Cold, Light, Poison +35%
Trang Gloves (better than Magefist for pure Cold IMHO because of the Cold resist): Cold +30%
Scintillating Ring of Fortune: +12 res all/23% MF
Rare Ring (10% FCR, +19 STR, +18 Life, Cold 14%, Fire 22%)
Small Charms: 13% Cold, 36% Fire, 8% Light, 11% Poison (7%MF/5% Cold) (6%MF/5% Fire) (2 STR/11% Fire) (11 Life/10% Fire) (7%MF/11% Poison) (7%MF/8% Cold) (7%MF/8% Light) (6%MF/10%Fire). The rest is Gheed's (40% MF), stack of keys, 24x 7%MF SC, Cube.
Total: +147% Fire, +144% Cold, +163% Lightning, +58% Poison. With only 2 inventory space slots "wasted" for +11 life and +2 STR (=4 Life). So no need for Shimmering Charms
My inventory is full, the only space to put items is the cube. So I could easily put in 3 skillers, but would lose 63% MF. Since kill speed is more than enough with lv 29 fully synergized Blizzard and level 29 CM, no need for skillers.But yes, if I wanted even more damage while keeping my char safe, Tal's might be the better solution. But it all comes down to what you want your character for and how you want to balance it: MF/survival/killing speed. I found my setup to be the best solution for the equipment I have. If I want to boost one aspect (MF, speed or survival),it would be at the cost of another one.
With your setup, you get the same killing speed and slightly better survivability (+125 Life, overstacked resists), but less MF. MFing is an important part of what I do, and survivability is already great for me, so I chose my way
But thank you for your analysis! Acutally, I have now a higher opinion of Full Tal's for single tree builds than before :nod:
Ok so we got an interesting discussion here. But before we continue the discussion what an ideal setup is, we need to consider damage breakpoints. Yes you hear me right, damage breakpoints. Grisu feels like he deals enough damage with lvl 29 blizzard+DF, which is like 5700 damage I guess. But instead of feeling, I think it is better to calculate.
I did this kind of calculations before, but Onderduiker told I did wrong. Taking the hitpoints from arreat summit wasnt right and I had to take into account level modifiers or something like that.
Sadly I dont know how to calculate the hitpoints of the monsters, so ill just take the information from wiki: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Ancient_Tunnels and Arreat summit: http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act2-sandraider.shtml
The hitpoints vary, but since uniques are lvl 88, I will just take the upper limit.
Plague bearer: 7893 hitpoints (AS: 7893)
Embalmed: 7366 hitpoints (AS: 7366)
Horror mage: 4393 hitpoints (AS: 4393)
Invader: 9678 hitpoints (AS: 9678)
Uniques have 2x hitpoints, but lets assume we allways bring them at -100% cold resist with our cold mastery so calculations are easy. 2x hitpoints and 2x damage.
Damage breakpoints at /p1 are:
3947 damage to 2x hit Plague Bearer Boss (lvl 28 blizzard or lvl 26 blizzard with 15% cold damage)
4393 damage to 1x hit Horror Mage Boss (lvl 30 blizzard or lvl 28 blizzard with 15% cold damage or lvl 26 with 30% cold damage))
4839 damage to 2x hit Invader Boss (lvl 31 blizzard or lvl29 blizzard with 15% cold damage or lvl 27 blizzard with 30% cold damage)
Damage Breakpoints at /p3
3947 damage to 4x hit Plague Bearer Boss
4393 damage to 2x hit Horror Mage Boss
4839 damage to 4x hit Invader Boss
5262 damage to 3x hit Plague Bearer Boss (lvl 31 blizzard with 15% cold damage or lvl 29 blizzard with 30% cold damage)
6452 damage to 3x hit Invader Boss
I left out Embalmed, they have slightly less HP as Plague bearer, but might also have some cold resist if your cold mastery isnt sufficient.
Sadly I am pretty sure these calculations are wrong and we need Onderduiker or some other monsterhitpoints expert to give us the true numbers
edit
see here onderduikers reply: http://www.purediablo.com/forums/sh...Help-needed!&p=8427428&viewfull=1#post8427428
I did this kind of calculations before, but Onderduiker told I did wrong. Taking the hitpoints from arreat summit wasnt right and I had to take into account level modifiers or something like that.
Sadly I dont know how to calculate the hitpoints of the monsters, so ill just take the information from wiki: http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Ancient_Tunnels and Arreat summit: http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act2-sandraider.shtml
The hitpoints vary, but since uniques are lvl 88, I will just take the upper limit.
Plague bearer: 7893 hitpoints (AS: 7893)
Embalmed: 7366 hitpoints (AS: 7366)
Horror mage: 4393 hitpoints (AS: 4393)
Invader: 9678 hitpoints (AS: 9678)
Uniques have 2x hitpoints, but lets assume we allways bring them at -100% cold resist with our cold mastery so calculations are easy. 2x hitpoints and 2x damage
.Damage breakpoints at /p1 are:
3947 damage to 2x hit Plague Bearer Boss (lvl 28 blizzard or lvl 26 blizzard with 15% cold damage)
4393 damage to 1x hit Horror Mage Boss (lvl 30 blizzard or lvl 28 blizzard with 15% cold damage or lvl 26 with 30% cold damage))
4839 damage to 2x hit Invader Boss (lvl 31 blizzard or lvl29 blizzard with 15% cold damage or lvl 27 blizzard with 30% cold damage)
Damage Breakpoints at /p3
3947 damage to 4x hit Plague Bearer Boss
4393 damage to 2x hit Horror Mage Boss
4839 damage to 4x hit Invader Boss
5262 damage to 3x hit Plague Bearer Boss (lvl 31 blizzard with 15% cold damage or lvl 29 blizzard with 30% cold damage)
6452 damage to 3x hit Invader Boss
I left out Embalmed, they have slightly less HP as Plague bearer, but might also have some cold resist if your cold mastery isnt sufficient.
Sadly I am pretty sure these calculations are wrong and we need Onderduiker or some other monsterhitpoints expert to give us the true numbers
edit
see here onderduikers reply: http://www.purediablo.com/forums/sh...Help-needed!&p=8427428&viewfull=1#post8427428
Last edited:
No problem@Korlic:
With your setup, you get the same killing speed and slightly better survivability (+125 Life, overstacked resists), but less MF. MFing is an important part of what I do, and survivability is already great for me, so I chose my way
But thank you for your analysis! Acutally, I have now a higher opinion of Full Tal's for single tree builds than before :nod:
As it is most of the time its a matter of choice. My point is simply that Tal set is most often comparable to even the best setups, at least when MF is involved.Damage breakpoints: Are the hits casts of blizzard or ticks of blizzard that has already been cast?
Google