OT: The SPF Mafia Game Round Three

[Rashiminos]

So your past actions need to come under a more intense review? I agree.



That's one thing that's been bothering me. Did you kill Nikon believing he was the cop? Or did you decide he was the cop afterwards?

When you announce Nikon as the cop, you add that Sint and Moar are mafia. Goltar and Thyiad are NOT [sic] mafia. Then you neatly discover an odd voting habit of Thyiad and cast the next-to-last vote for her. See the first quote for implications. To top it off you accuse Moar of agreeing with you and casting the final vote.

This smells like a set-up. And even if it isn't, I'm curious how this leaves you any less suspicious than Moar. There's still some daylight left...

Unvote: Moar
Vote: Rashiminos

Yes, I lynched Nikon believing he was the cop, he's the reason I voted Moar on day 2...

post 133

Remarkable perception, Batman!

post 272

There were 2 nights before he said that, why those people when he hadn't mentioned them before? Maybe he was trying to invite one of them to overplay their hand. Then he votes very quickly for Moar.

Then day 4 came along and he jumped at Sint, eventually substituting logical argument with plain stubbornness. It started rattling my image of him, if I hadn't thought he was the cop, my vote would have been immediate right after he refused to reply to Sint's post. As it was, he had unusually strong sights on two players, so he was not looking like an ordinary townie. I chose to vote him on day 5 in order to a) avoid the 4th no-lynch, b)eliminate an endgame disruption (he would probably lose us the game if it came down to the last lynch), and most importantly c) not taking post 769 back.

As for goltar and Thyiad, those are guesses from Nikon's mention of them without calling them mafia. I have no better idead of who he might have investigated if he was cop. The better question yesterday was why three people seemed to fall the exact same way in the 3 lynch votes. I wanted to lynch Moar, the rest of the town was voting Thyiad. Lynch Thyiad or no-lynch, great choice there.

I didn't accuse Moar of agreeing with me yesterday. In post 867 I was correcting your (muzzz) oversight of noticing that Moar had cast the lynching vote. Failure to read?

 

[Rashiminos]

It should read "I have no better idea...."

 

[SiTro]

It seems another no-lynch is likely. Unless muzzz changes vote back to Moar, it doesn't look likely that enough people will jump ship in the shot amount of time left today to vote Rash out. I'm not changing my vote anyway. Moar fits with my list of mafia candidates, Rashiminos doesn't. Simple.

But a no-lynch hurts the town more. I've lost faith. This town will burn.

 

[muzzz]

I didn't accuse Moar of agreeing with me yesterday. In post 867 I was correcting your (muzzz) oversight of noticing that Moar had cast the lynching vote. Failure to read?

I wasn't talking about "post 867" anyway. You mentioned Moar changing her vote to Thyiad as suspicious, while her main argument for changing that vote was her agreeing with you. But it's almost as if you don't believe someone can trust you, because you entirely ignore that part of her post. Instead you go on about her confusion with regards to Nikon. Confusion you probably caused yourself.

And I don't care much for your rehash of previous arguments mixed with some jabs at my reading ability (FYI: there never was any oversight). I didn't ask you to clarify your motives. I asked you to clarify how they are less shifty than what you are accusing Moar of.

@SiTro: please understand that I don't mean to cause a no-lynch. But right now I think that Moar is truly innocent, and that Rash is setting her up. And I have serious trouble convincing myself that voting Moar is better for the town. Perhaps if I really believed we would be lynching Rash tomorrow. But he'll probably have another wacky distraction ready. For all we know Moar might become the cop tonight.

 

[SiTro]

Fair enough. You shouldn't find yourself voting for someone you're reasonably sure is innocent just so that the town can chalk up another lynch. You might find that you were right.

 

[skunkbelly]

I hate doing this, but muzzz has left us little choice. We cannot let another day go by without a lynching... two in this tournament has already crippled our chances.

unvote Goltar
vote Moar

My symbolic but fairly useless vote against Goltar will at least now go to (hopefully) good use.

ADD: and if Moar is the cop, now would be a DARN good time to come out of the closet.

 

[Rashiminos]

I wasn't talking about "post 867" anyway. You mentioned Moar changing her vote to Thyiad as suspicious, while her main argument for changing that vote was her agreeing with you. But it's almost as if you don't believe someone can trust you, because you entirely ignore that part of her post. Instead you go on about her confusion with regards to Nikon. Confusion you probably caused yourself.

And I don't care much for your rehash of previous arguments mixed with some jabs at my reading ability (FYI: there never was any oversight). I didn't ask you to clarify your motives. I asked you to clarify how they are less shifty than what you are accusing Moar of.

@SiTro: please understand that I don't mean to cause a no-lynch. But right now I think that Moar is truly innocent, and that Rash is setting her up. And I have serious trouble convincing myself that voting Moar is better for the town. Perhaps if I really believed we would be lynching Rash tomorrow. But he'll probably have another wacky distraction ready. For all we know Moar might become the cop tonight.

Her main argument was that it looked like to her (Moar) that Thyiad was protecting Sint. That does not mean the same thing as agreeing with me. If I'm not a mason, does anyone really have a reason to trust me? I haven't seen anyone else with a credible case of being the cop as Nikon's case was.

I'm in reality accusing Moar of having been caught red-handed by the cop. proceeding to call over several days for the cop's lynch, trying to set up a lynch queue after the cop's death, voting Jaago next in queue because either he or nikon were "mafia", changing that vote to Thyiad since she became less sure it was jaago (somehow...), and then today her first vote is Jaago, who somehow became more likely to be mafia again.

I've put the last votes on Nikon and Sint, lynch > no-lynch.
Each time I've changed my vote to a leading candidate, I indicated that I would rather it be elsewhere. I've claimed someone to be the cop, which no one else has earnestly tried to refute, although they have shown skepticism. (No one else has tried to find the real cop, the cop hasn't stood out and explained that Nikon couldn't possibly have been cop, etc.)

I'll admit that the two consecutive final votes are shifty, but I'll also say the town lacks backbone when it comes to lynches (3 no-lynches so far, not 2). Someone had to step in and set things right. I decided to do that. If you don't want me being the only one doing these things, then step up and do some moar mafia hunting yourself.

Oh yeah, going with the Nikon was cop argument, Moar would absolutely have to be shiftier than me.

 

[Rashiminos]

I wasn't talking about "post 867" anyway. You mentioned Moar changing her vote to Thyiad as suspicious, while her main argument for changing that vote was her agreeing with you. But it's almost as if you don't believe someone can trust you, because you entirely ignore that part of her post. Instead you go on about her confusion with regards to Nikon. Confusion you probably caused yourself.

Oh and muzzz, I'm getting tired of your lies and misrepresentation, please start backing up your words with relevant posts...

 

[muzzz]

I didn't provide quotes because I refuse to go monster-vs-monster. But I'm willing to provide one if not doing so makes me a liar This is from your monster-post against Moar:

I've said that I wasn't that sure that Jaago was mafia any longer (if Nikon was, he can't).
There are interesting things shown about Thyiads voting habbits. It indeed looks like she vas trying to protect at least Sint. If Sint was mafia, then I think we need to lynch Thyiad as well.
So I'll go for having a lynching rather than another missed opportunity (spelling? it's before my first cup of coffee).

Unvote: Jaago
Vote: Thyiad

Her suspicion of Jaago was dependent on her suspicion of Nikon. Now she's saying nikon was mafia, so jaago must therefore be town, and she can switch her vote to the main lynch candidate.

This is one of the things I was talking about. The way I read this, Moar's statement is that Rashiminos might be right regarding Thyiad's voting habits. Wether or not Jaago is mafia did not seem to have as much to do with it in my eyes.

But Rashiminos seems to ignore that part of her post completely. All he mentions is how convenient it is that she's confused about Nikon, and hence Jaago.

Her main argument was that it looked like to her (Moar) that Thyiad was protecting Sint. That does not mean the same thing as agreeing with me. If I'm not a mason, does anyone really have a reason to trust me? I haven't seen anyone else with a credible case of being the cop as Nikon's case was.

True, it's not necessarily the same as agreeing. But her reasoning was close enough to yours, both in time and content, that it's close enough for me.

I'm in reality accusing Moar of having been caught red-handed by the cop. proceeding to call over several days for the cop's lynch, trying to set up a lynch queue after the cop's death, voting Jaago next in queue because either he or nikon were "mafia", changing that vote to Thyiad since she became less sure it was jaago (somehow...), and then today her first vote is Jaago, who somehow became more likely to be mafia again.

If I understand you correctly, the two main accusations in this paragraph are being caught by the cop and shifty voting behaviour. At least I'm assuming that the voting queue refers to the votes you're mentioning.

I've put the last votes on Nikon and Sint, lynch > no-lynch.
Each time I've changed my vote to a leading candidate, I indicated that I would rather it be elsewhere. I've claimed someone to be the cop, which no one else has earnestly tried to refute, although they have shown skepticism. (No one else has tried to find the real cop, the cop hasn't stood out and explained that Nikon couldn't possibly have been cop, etc.)

I'll admit that the two consecutive final votes are shifty, but I'll also say the town lacks backbone when it comes to lynches (3 no-lynches so far, not 2). Someone had to step in and set things right. I decided to do that. If you don't want me being the only one doing these things, then step up and do some moar mafia hunting yourself.

For the last time, I'm not calling your voting behaviour shifty. It's when you put it together with the Nikon-as-cop story and the way your trying to lynch Moar that things become suspicious.

Oh yeah, going with the Nikon was cop argument, Moar would absolutely have to be shiftier than me.

I can't refute that line of reasoning. But for now I'm very skeptical about the assumption required.

 

[Rashiminos]

This is one of the things I was talking about. The way I read this, Moar's statement is that Rashiminos might be right regarding Thyiad's voting habits. Wether or not Jaago is mafia did not seem to have as much to do with it in my eyes.

The Nikon/Jaago tandem begins.
Nikon/ Jaago reiterated to justify Jaago vote.
Voted Jaago for the same reason again!

The post you cite: "I'll lay off Jaago to lynch Thyiad for now, saying I suspect him less for some reason" (Translation)

"I was only kidding about suspecting Jaago less, I'm ALL ABOUT the avoiding of no-lynches, apparently."

But Rashiminos seems to ignore that part of her post completely. All he mentions is how convenient it is that she's confused about Nikon, and hence Jaago.

I chose to disregard the vote change to the leading bandwagon since the singular instance here isn't very telling, many players have done it, not too important by itself.

True, it's not necessarily the same as agreeing. But her reasoning was close enough to yours, both in time and content, that it's close enough for me.

So close enough is good for you, not necessarily whether it could be factual..., (glares)

If I understand you correctly, the two main accusations in this paragraph are being caught by the cop and shifty voting behaviour. At least I'm assuming that the voting queue refers to the votes you're mentioning.

Specifically two types of voting behavior, voting Nikon in retaliation for him voting her, and then setting a Jaago lynch up in association with Nikon using the flawed argument that one or the other must be mafia.

For the last time, I'm not calling your voting behaviour shifty. It's when you put it together with the Nikon-as-cop story and the way your trying to lynch Moar that things become suspicious.

I can't refute that line of reasoning. But for now I'm very skeptical about the assumption required.

I don't fault you for being skeptical, but try showing Nikon can't be cop because so-and-so (insert posts here).

(Checks muzzz's posts over...)

 

[Jaago]

@ Rash: How come you're so sure that the police has id'd Moar? That seems to be one of your main clauses against her and there's pretty much no way to be so sure unless you're the cop yourself, which I find not very probable.

Also it seems to me that your other reason fo suspecting her is that she is stubbornly voting me from day to day; I'm flattered of course, but didn't you do about the same with sir lister?

Anyway, I think that lynching Moar should have happened on day 3 already. I think there are more important targets now.

 

[Rashiminos]

Also it seems to me that your other reason fo suspecting her is that she is stubbornly voting me from day to day; I'm flattered of course, but didn't you do about the same with sir lister?

Anyway, I think that lynching Moar should have happened on day 3 already. I think there are more important targets now.

She's stubbornly voting for Jaago for the same reason that she first voted for Jaago, either Nikon or Jaago is mafia. I had some reasons to vote lister on day 2, and more each day I voted him thereafter.

 

[Rashiminos]

Anyway, I think that lynching Moar should have happened on day 3 already. I think there are more important targets now.

Bolding mine.

So who else besides me is a more important target to you, Jaago? Why?

 

[muzzz]

So close enough is good for you, not necessarily whether it could be factual..., (glares)

Unfortunately for all of us, we're not dealing mainly with facts here. Instead we're dealing with interpretations of words. At some point you have to make assumptions. So yes, I am "just assuming" that she agreed with you. Whether or not my assumption is correct is something we won't know until the game has ended.

I don't fault you for being skeptical, but try showing Nikon can't be cop because so-and-so (insert posts here).

(Checks muzzz's posts over...)

That's funny. I didn't notice you saying Nikon is cop because so-and-so. I've gone over your post announcing Nikon as cop, but there are no reasons there. Just conclusions. I'm assuming you do have those reasons, because you seemed to be leaving hints in that direction earlier. But I wasn't able to find them.

Lack of evidence is one reason why I have trouble believing Nikon was the cop. Another one is that I don't understand why on earth the cop would throw everything away to lynch Sint. Even if Sint was the evil mastermind.

One last thing: I'd feel a lot better about you if you'd stop putting way too much weight on an unlucky phrasing. I've had to tell you that before, skoolbus has had to tell you that, and now it looks like Jaago will have to do the same.

 

[Rashiminos]

This is on the last page, but I think you should read it again

http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5867303&postcount=901

There's a difference when a players makes an "unlucky phrase" and what skoolbus says as host of this game. Skoolbus said that he would tell us when the doctor saved some, and at the beginning of the day he seemed to indicate that the doctor attempted to save CDRToast. He cleared that up for us. His words should not be as open to interpretation as a player's might (as long as player identity and killer aren't revealed of course).

 

[muzzz]

Ah, my mistake. I had trouble figuring out why you linked those posts by Nikon. Now I realize I was viewing them in the wrong context. My apologies.

Let me see if I understood this correctly. Nikon's asking if you were proposing something was your first clue to his being the cop. That's followed by him suddenly questioning goltar and Moar, and finally his battle against Sint. I have to agree that the first two arguments look plausible. Not something I would draw the same conclusion from, but they could fit. My other point still stands though.

And yeah, there's a difference between host and players. I'll even admit that I was confused about his choice of words as well. But my point was, and is, that your behaviour was the same. You took an innocent miswording and started drawing pretty big conclusions from it. Perhaps your intent was innocent as well. But even then I don't think you're doing anyone any good with it. Not me, not yourself, but most of all not the town.

 

[Rashiminos]

If you're willing to consider some things "innocent miswording," you should also consider some things "guilty miswording." There's also intentional miswording and unintentional miswording for that matter.

 

[Moar]

Geez, I'm still not lynched. Where's skoolbus when you need him. :wink3:

I have to admit I lost the plot a long time ago. That's probably why I can't come up with such big posts, I just don't get it. I've tried to reason why some people posted as they did, but all it tells me is that everybody is playing a game. You just don't know what's real and what's fake, so I've gone over to trust my gut feeling and vote according to that. If some others come up with a good reasoning why somebody should to be lynched, then I'm willing to buy that and follow them like the sheep do. They might just have a point!

Famous last words? :grin:

 

[skoolbus1]

Geez, I'm still not lynched. Where's skoolbus when you need him. :wink3:

Unfortunately I put school ahead of the mafia game, a tragedy, I know...

Anyhow, Moar has angered enough of the town that they show up at her door on horseback. They tie each of her limbs to a horse, poke the horses with a branding iron causing them to bolt in different directions. Moar is quite literally torn between which direction she must go, and suffers an agonizing death. I think it's now night nine, I need pm's from everyone who needs to pm me.

 

[Rashiminos]

Unfortunately I put school ahead of the mafia game, a tragedy, I know...

We should write a play, :jig: