OT: The SPF Mafia Game Round Three

[skoolbus1]

OT: The SPF Mafia Game Round Three

In the peaceful Sicilian village of Salem, a dark presence is about to make itself known. For years, the family based crime organization known as the Mafia has been establishing itself in the foundation of the community. Until now, the naive citizens have been unaware of the evil among them. Tonight, however, the Mafia makes its move. Tonight, someone will die, and until the Mafia has eliminated all opposition, the innocent will continue to die. Unless, of course, the Mafia is destroyed first...

This is round three for the mafia game. Rules are going to be basically the same as the first two, and I'll post then when night one starts. Right now this thread will be used for signup and discussion until the round starts. It will start thursday night (my time) which is about 72 hours from now, plenty of time to give everyone a chance to sign up.

If you have not played before you MUST read the first few posts of the previous two threads, just to get a summary of the roles and rules. Once we start, I'll post the official rules for this round. Round 1 and Round 2 threads.

Roles (certain)
Townsfolk
Mafia
Doctor
Cop

Roles (maybe)
Witness - See Round 2
Crooked Detective - See Round 2
Serial Killer - Is on their own team, and kills a person once per night. During day they act like a normal person. In order to win, they must be the last person alive.
Traitor - Is on the mafias team. They know who all is in the mafia, but the mafia do not know who the traitor is. The traitor does not discuss with the mafia during the night, and acts like a townsfolk during the day trying to steer suspicion away from mafia members during the day. They win if the mafia win.
Army Veteran - A townsfolk that gets to kill one person at night during the entire game. You could make it either up to the person, or have them automatically kill the first person that targets them at night (if they are killed by the mafia, they choose one to kill, if the doctor tries to save them, the doctor gets killed, if the cop investigates them, the cop gets killed. If the cop, doctor, and mafia all target them, then I'll give them all the names, not roles, and they choose one).
Roles suggested in this post.
Any new roles you guys suggest.

The townsfolk to mafia ration will be ~6:1, last time it was ~4:1 which was way too low to give the town a reasonable chance to win it seemed.

Things I want you all to voice opinion on (if you don't I choose and you must live with it):
- How we do day/night. Either like round 1, or round 2. If round 2 style, how long of time limit do you want?
- Reveal roles upon death? Keep in mind, if you all decide you want this, this hurts the mafia when the game starts.
- Roles you want and ones you do not want.
- Any changes to the game or rules.
- Anything else you can think of.

Sign up list
xductster
RevenantsKnight
Sir Lister of Smeg
jrlafrance
Jaago
LORD NIKON
Jaedhann
Drixx
Neksja
muzzz
Rashiminos
CDRToast

These are the people explicitly saying they wanted to play in the previous thread. If I've missed anyone who has expressed interest in one of the threads, I apologize, please just post here. To sign up, just post in this thread that you want to play, and I'll periodically update the list. There will not be a cap on the number of people who can play this round, just those post before my arbitrary deadline of around 72 hours from now.

I've probably forgotten something, so please remind me. Thanks!

 

[Rashiminos]

I think we could do without 2 kills a night, no Serial Killer please.

Edit: We could opt to start with the day phase so a person doesn't have to die before participating in the festivities...

 

[xduckster]

If we do have a serial killer/veteran, will townsfolk know who was killed by the mafia vs who was killed by the other people?

I don't understand what your clarification was about the veteran.
1) If the cop tries to ID the the veteran the cop gets killed.
2) If the doctor tries to save the veteran, the army veteran kills the doctor.
3) If the mafia and the army veteran both try to kill the same person and the doctor tries to save him, the veteran and the mafia have to choose which of them gets the kill.

Not sure I understand why you think 1 and 2 are necessary. Number three makes sense, but I'm not sure if that's what you mean.

Additionally, who's side is the veteran on? I'm assuming the townsfolk.

edit @Rashiminos: I don't think starting with a day phase is a good idea. By starting at night it gives the cop a chance to ID someone and gives the townsfolk some ideas as to who might have chosen to kill that person. Otherwise it is pure potluck as to who to vote for on day 1.

edit2: Unless many more people join, (say a game of 18-24 people) I think there are too many rolls.

edit3: If we do decide to announce how man mafia remain we'll need to increase the ratio to 5:1 me thinks. I vote to announce it.

 

[Sint Nikolaas]

Roles (maybe)
Witness - See Round 2
Crooked Detective - See Round 2
Serial Killer - Is on their own team, and kills a person once per night. During day they act like a normal person. In order to win, they must be the last person alive.
Traitor - Is on the mafias team. They know who all is in the mafia, but the mafia do not know who the traitor is. The traitor does not discuss with the mafia during the night, and acts like a townsfolk during the day trying to steer suspicion away from mafia members during the day. They win if the mafia win.
Army Veteran - A townsfolk that gets to kill one person at night during the entire game. You could make it either up to the person, or have them automatically kill the first person that targets them at night (if they are killed by the mafia, they choose one to kill, if the doctor tries to save them, the doctor gets killed, if the cop investigates them, the cop gets killed. If the cop, doctor, and mafia all target them, then I'll give them all the names, not roles, and they choose one).
Roles suggested in this post.
Any new roles you guys suggest.

I say witness in, but only to reveal the person who kills him. So instead of watching another murder he can write the name of (one of) the guy(s) who killed him.
Detective depends on # of sign ups. If it counts towards being a mafia in the 1:6 ratio then it's fine with me.
Serial killer too, depends on how many people will sign up. I think it'd be great to have to consider three sides because now it's not just mafia vs town, but mafia vs town vs killer. In, if there are enough people (what.. 20-25+?)
Traitor in or out, doesn't matter too much to me. It'd be a hard role, but knowing who the bad guys are would be so amusing.
Vet in, like that role. Make it a random kill though, don't send names just do a random number on the people that target him (if more then one).

The townsfolk to mafia ration will be ~6:1, last time it was ~4:1 which was way too low to give the town a reasonable chance to win it seemed.

Good one.

Things I want you all to voice opinion on (if you don't I choose and you must live with it):
1- How we do day/night. Either like round 1, or round 2. If round 2 style, how long of time limit do you want?
2- Reveal roles upon death? Keep in mind, if you all decide you want this, this hurts the mafia when the game starts.
3- Roles you want and ones you do not want.
4- Any changes to the game or rules.
5- Anything else you can think of.

1- I think something like a 48/24 ratio seems ok, a max of 48 hours to give people in various timezones a chance to discuss at least twice and 24 hours into the night. The night can be shorter, the mob just have to make a little strategy up front :tongue: dunno though, maybe even 72/48 orso.
2- I wouldn't do it just yet, changing the ratio down to 1:6 max would already make it a bit harder.
3/4/5- your show :wink3: I'll come up with the next one.

Ofcourse I'll be in.

 

[skoolbus1]

If we do have a serial killer/veteran, will townsfolk know who was killed by the mafia vs who was killed by the other people?

No, I'll just give a murder story for the dead person, not who did it.

I don't understand what your clarification was about the veteran.
1) If the cop tries to ID the the veteran the cop gets killed.
2) If the doctor tries to save the veteran, the army veteran kills the doctor.
3) If the mafia and the army veteran both try to kill the same person and the doctor tries to save him, the veteran and the mafia have to choose which of them gets the kill.

Not sure I understand why you think 1 and 2 are necessary. Number three makes sense, but I'm not sure if that's what you mean.

Additionally, who's side is the veteran on? I'm assuming the townsfolk.

The veteran is on the towns side, and wins if the town wins. There are two different variations on the veteran, and if this role does get included, only one will be used. The first variation is, the veteran gets to kill one person, during the entire game, at night. The kill will be indistinguishable from the mafia kill, I'll just post two death stories the next morning.

The second variation is the verteran does not get to chose who they kill. The first time someone targets them at night (whether it be the cop, doctor, mafia, or other role) the veteran must kill that person. If the mafia or more than one person targets them on the same night, I will give them a list of names to choose from, and they choose one to kill. I suppose this would be the 'paranoid veteran' and the first variation is the 'sane veteran'. The point is that the role has much more risk and much more reward. More risk in that he can accidently kill the cop, and more reward in that he can easily target the mafia.

To add more confusion, there's also a variation on the cop's role. The cop will either be a 'naive cop', 'sane cop', 'paranoid cop', or 'insane cop'. If you play with this variation, the cop will know they are the cop, but will not know which version they are. When the cop investigates someone, if they are the naive cop, they always are told the person is a townsfolk. If they are the sane cop, they always are told the person's true role. Paranoid cop is told everyone is mafia. Insane cop is told something random each time. I believe if you play with this there is another role or some other way for the cop to find out which personality they have, but I cannot remember it right now.

edit: I agree with sint on which roles should be included depending on how many people enter. If it stays at under 15 entrants, there will be fewer roles for sure, but if we get 25+ people, it opens it up for many more roles.

edit2: Unless there is an overwhelming desire for the game to start on a day, it's going to start on night, that's just how the mafia game works, someone normally gets off'ed before they play.

 

[Rashiminos]

edit @Rashiminos: I don't think starting with a day phase is a good idea. By starting at night it gives the cop a chance to ID someone and gives the townsfolk some ideas as to who might have chosen to kill that person. Otherwise it is pure potluck as to who to vote for on day 1.

Well, there are two fixes to consider.

The cop gets to examine one person on the first night, but there's no murder that night. A pretty big advantage for the town should the cop get lucky.

The murder on the first night fails, and we know who was targeted, and that person gets one more day at least.

From previous experience in a live game, even with a kill the first night, the first lynching might as well be pot luck for the number of villagers that get killed that way. First kill has no context in the current game, just metagame context.

The problem with the two fixes above is that it takes too much away from the mafia at the beginning.

I hope you have the first victim's "Dear (Relatives)" letter already written.

 

[Neksja]

good, I've signed up already, so some my thoughts.

No for serial killer. I think it's pretty nasty to get two kills per night and it's more likely that serial killer would kill townie instead of mafia, so townies have lower chance.

crooked detective is fine, if we have more people to join. It was bit hard last round because detective stayed alive whole game, so was huge advantage to mobs.

Traitor looks like nice role. It seems that if he/she tries to defend some person too hard, he get killed instead, so not so big advantage than detective.

Witness was in last round a bit irrelevant role, because he helps townies propably best, when he witnesses in first couple of nights. If we get more players than last round, why not also keep witness' role.

Army Veteran seems funny :smiley: I think it could be good role, because it would make mafia members a bit more vulnerable at night. I'd say yes.

Townies vs Mobs ratio 6:1 looks fair and better than last rounds 4:1. Even 5:1 would be better. As last round showed, we townies came more suspicious about everything and we didn't even have a chance against mobs. So more townies for next game.

As Sint said, 48/24 time ratio seems good. Enough time for everyone to discuss and vote and there won't be days that lasts way too long. Okay, one day was a bit too long, but that was because of Lord Nikon's tempban (no new in next game, ok? :smiley

No for revealing roles after dead. I like more the idea, that townies don't have any clue if they lynched townie or mob. Makes the game more interesting and challenging.

that was my 2cents, way too happy that next round starts soon :grin:
Neksja

 

[TouchOfInsanity]

I'd be happy to partake in this joyous game once more. :grin:

 

[Sint Nikolaas]

The second variation is the verteran does not get to chose who they kill. The first time someone targets them at night (whether it be the cop, doctor, mafia, or other role) the veteran must kill that person. If the mafia or more than one person targets them on the same night, I will give them a list of names to choose from, and they choose one to kill.

Problem here though, in the off-chance that the mafia AND the doctor both target the veteran and the veteran picks a mafia from your list he stays alive (because of the doc). So he now is alive, in the game and has a full list of mafia members... end of game? Doesn't matter that one on the list is actually the doctor. I still say go for a random draw... if a bunch of murderers broke into my house if I was a gun-owner I wouldn't stand around making up my mind who to pick, I'd shoot randomly and probably at the person closest to me.

I actually like the sugestion of starting with a failed murder attempt.

 

[skoolbus1]

Problem here though, in the off-chance that the mafia AND the doctor both target the veteran and the veteran picks a mafia from your list he stays alive (because of the doc). So he now is alive, in the game and has a full list of mafia members... end of game? Doesn't matter that one on the list is actually the doctor. I still say go for a random draw... if a bunch of murderers broke into my house if I was a gun-owner I wouldn't stand around making up my mind who to pick, I'd shoot randomly and probably at the person closest to me.

Good point, I'll just randomly choose one for him to kill.

 

[RevenantsKnight]

Thanks for organizing things again, skoolbus. Now, to those opinions of mine...

I don't much care how you do the days and nights; the round 1 style is more interesting, I think, but probably unfair when some people aren't present at any given time.

I don't think you should reveal roles after deaths, since the mystery factor was fun last time.

A Witness with the "revealing my murderer" power sounds good to me, and it should make for some interesting writeup opportunities, I'd think. The "choosing to witness" version is fine too, but it does feel a bit unbelievable, if that's a concern.

As has already been said, the Crooked Detective seems like it would be fine with more people.

I'd say no to the Traitor, simply because it doesn't look like the townsfolk need any help in chasing their tails. :tongue:

Serial Killer might be interesting, given a large enough pool of players. I'd be willing to give it a shot.

Regardless of the version, the Army Veteran is something that might be worth a try.

Overall, I don't know if I'd add too many roles, since if, say, half the players have some sort of not-townsfolk position, it sort of changes the flavor of the game. Given twelve players as of now, having one additional role should be fine, I'd imagine, but more with these numbers might get messy (particularly so if the Serial Killer is involved.)

And as a totally random aside, it might be more fun to be a nutjob this time around instead of an analytical player...look how far that got me, anyway. I may just have to give Noodle a run for his money on the Village Idiot title... :flip:

 

[Drixx]

I like the round TWO version of day/night better.

I like the crooked detective and the witness

 

[Rashiminos]

Well, all I can really say about not revealing townie/mafia upon death is that I hope the Cop is born under a lucky sign, else the mob is winning the charm.

 

[Cygnus]

I'm signing up. Never even heard of this game before, but I had plenty of fun following the first two rounds :thumbsup:

6:1 ratio: Yes.
48/24 day/night. In the last two rounds, I noticed that some people couldn't/didn't weigh in with their views during the day. More time = more discussion = greater chance for the mafia to slip up = less guesswork = good.
Reveal roles upon death: No. At least for this round. If the mafia win again, I'll reconsider this.
Witness: Yes
Crooked Detective: Doesn't make sense to me. How can someone take me into custody without revealing his or her identity? No.
Traitor seems interesting.
Serial Killer: Two deaths every night!! NO.
Army Vet: You are going to offend some one with that description :laugh: I think you need a more suitably negative term for a trigger-happy person. No opinion.

No village idiot? :dunce:

I have an idea for a crooked cop. This person starts off the game as legit, but can turn to the dark side if hit by the mafia. If they choose to stay with the townies, they get killed right away (but win if the townies eventually win) If they go over to the side of the mafia, they reveal townsfolk roles (doc, witness, etc.) to fellow mafia. From that point on, they perform the mafia's role, not a cop's role. As there won't be a murder that night, the townies will know that a cop has switched over.

 

[skoolbus1]

I have an idea for a crooked cop. This person starts off the game as legit, but can turn to the dark side if hit by the mafia. If they choose to stay with the townies, they get killed right away (but win if the townies eventually win) If they go over to the side of the mafia, they reveal townsfolk roles (doc, witness, etc.) to fellow mafia. From that point on, they perform the mafia's role, not a cop's role. As there won't be a murder that night, the townies will know that a cop has switched over.

This is interesting. I think another way you could do it, so the town wouldn't know someone switched over, is allow the mafia to not murder a person during the night if they choose. Another thing to discuss...

 

[jrlafrance]

This is interesting. I think another way you could do it, so the town wouldn't know someone switched over, is allow the mafia to not murder a person during the night if they choose. Another thing to discuss...

When no one got lynched the first day in round 2, I brought up that possibility to my fellow Mafia about not murdering anyone, but got out voted. It is an interesting idea though.

I like the Crooked Detective (maybe a different name), and the Witness. It is a shame that the Witness is out after the fact though.

How about a role of a Fortune Teller or Clairvoyant? Someone who is given a list of possible Mafia members (maybe 4-5 on the list, but only one Mafia), each night. This person is a townie, but can share the list with the Cop in private?

 

[Sir Lister of Smeg]

I like the idea of the serial killer, especially if there are a lot of participants (say 20+), this is just so the game will go faster.

With regards to the witness, it's a role I really don't like, unless it's in the form that the witness doesn't know (s)he is the witness (as originally suggested by Sint?). In that case, when the witness is murdered (s)he gets to write the name of one of the mafiosi with his/her blood. If the witness gets lynched instead, then the townsfolk are out of luck. If the witness gets targeted by the mafia and saved by the doctor simultaneously, then the town has a lucky day since the witness still managed to write the name of one of the mafiosi, as well as surviving. However, the next time the witness gets targeted this ability would not work anymore.

As to Cygnus' suggestion of the naming of the army vet, vet can also be interpreted differently, as veterinarian. Why not make it so that someone accidentally bumps into some horse medicine deadly to humans. Since the army is the worst organized organization, an injection needle lying around filled with medicine isn't that unlikely anyway.

I think it's better not to reveal the roles upon death, apart from possibly the cop and the doctor (documents were found in their house, indicating...).

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Just a random idea here, but if there is a circumstance where a mafioso is to be identified to the townsfolk, say by the Witness, then the mafia guy chosen to be identified can be the one who PM'd the organiser with the identity of the hit victim. There may be other circumstances where this might work, but I'm not sure. This would be instead of randomly choosing the mafia player for "outing".

This will make things interesting for the mafia, possibly sowing the seeds of discord within their ranks. As things stand, the mafiosa all cooperate very well with each other, which is slightly unrealistic in my view. Adds a certain degree of tension ... :grin:

 

[Thyiad1]

I would be happy to be in this again.

Witness - Didn't really like them
Crooked Detective - Didn't like this either
Serial Killer - Like this idea
Traitor - Don't see the point of this
Army Veteran - LIke this idea

The townsfolk to mafia ration will be ~6:1, Much better

- How we do day/night. Round 2 was better. Discussion time then voting. Makes it easier for those of us who work and don't have regular net access.
- Reveal roles upon death? Yes. Otherwise you're voting blind
- Any changes to the game or rules. I would like to see a bit more role play. I've either missed the point of some of the game; which is possible; or a lot of the townie side is just guesswork. With nothing to really hang a theory on.

 

[Basicbhoy]

Crooked Detective - Didn't like this either

you're only saying this as I took in you in first!!!!!!!!!

I'm not taking part this time but I like the idea of the crooked cop but i think it needs refining. Maybe he can do the same checks as 'normal' cop intead of taking someone into custody but if he chooses the cop, he is locked up forever.

What you think?