TheWorldEnds
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Re: Obi Wan Kenobi: The Necromancer (Maiden/Bone Armor + Pride)
What would do more damage to a monster, Thorns + Amp or Thorns + IM
What would do more damage to a monster, Thorns + Amp or Thorns + IM
Obi Wan Kenobi: The Necromancer (Maiden/Bone Armor + Pride)
- Thread starter TheWorldEnds
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Re: Obi Wan Kenobi: The Necromancer (Maiden/Bone Armor + Pride)
Thorns + Amp. Unless you get into silly levels of IM.
Thorns + Amp. Unless you get into silly levels of IM.
onderduiker
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Re: Obi Wan Kenobi: The Necromancer (Maiden/Bone Armor + Pride)
However, a blocked hit will not apply % Chance to Cast When Struck, although it might appear to do so if you're in the middle of a blocking animation when a subsequent attack strikes, particularly when you're being attacked by multiple monsters: I've tested this by equipping 100% Chance to Cast Nova When Struck with 75 % Chance of Blocking while being attacked by a single monster, and Nova was only cast when struck (confirmed by lost hit-points due to damage), never when hits were blocked.
However, Attacker Takes Damage from items is not dependent on damage taken, so its damage is applied even when the player takes no damage due to Bone Armour. Unfortunately you can't equip enough ATD to make steady progress through Hell, but it can be fun in Normal, and possibly Nightmare (as can equipping multiple items with the Charged or Nova Shield suffix to give 100% chance to cast those skills when struck).
For example, [highlight]Edge 'TirTalAmn'[/highlight] bow's Level 15 Thorns Aura When Equipped returns 810% damage, so against DR 0% attackers level 26+ IM (825+%) returns more damage than AD; however, against DR 50% attackers, level 58+ IM (1,625+%) is required to return more damage than AD (level 58+ IM is technically but not realistically possible).
Hiring a Desert Mercenary supplying Thorns or equipping [highlight]Bramble 'RalOhmSurEth'[/highlight] armour (Level 16-21 Thorns Aura When Equipped, 850-1,050%) can result in higher level Thorns. Better yet, equip your Necromancer or a Rogue Scout with the bow and the armour for a combined Level 31-36 Thorns Aura When Equipped (1,450-1,650%); against DR 0% attackers, level 52-60+ IM is required to return more damage than AD, making AD the clear choice.
If you want to maximise returned damage per hit, I'd suggest equipping a Thorns Paladin with a means of casting Amplify Damage so that he can curse monsters, then convert one or more of them: cursing before converting reduces the DR % of the future convert, increasing the damage taken and thus returned to attackers whose DR % has also been reduced by AD. A Rogue Scout's Inner Sight can also be cast on monsters to lower their defence so they get hit more often once converted, although this isn't critical.
% Chance to Cast When Struck is applied regardless of whether or not the strike does any damage, so Bone Armour won't prevent it being applied.
However, a blocked hit will not apply % Chance to Cast When Struck, although it might appear to do so if you're in the middle of a blocking animation when a subsequent attack strikes, particularly when you're being attacked by multiple monsters: I've tested this by equipping 100% Chance to Cast Nova When Struck with 75 % Chance of Blocking while being attacked by a single monster, and Nova was only cast when struck (confirmed by lost hit-points due to damage), never when hits were blocked.
Again, in order for Iron Maiden and Thorns to return damage, the Necromancer has to take damage: if BA prevents damage from being applied, then none is returned.
However, Attacker Takes Damage from items is not dependent on damage taken, so its damage is applied even when the player takes no damage due to Bone Armour. Unfortunately you can't equip enough ATD to make steady progress through Hell, but it can be fun in Normal, and possibly Nightmare (as can equipping multiple items with the Charged or Nova Shield suffix to give 100% chance to cast those skills when struck).
It depends on the level of Thorns and IM, and the Damage Resist % of the attacker, but Amplify Damage is definitely better as Thorns level and DR % increase.
For example, [highlight]Edge 'TirTalAmn'[/highlight] bow's Level 15 Thorns Aura When Equipped returns 810% damage, so against DR 0% attackers level 26+ IM (825+%) returns more damage than AD; however, against DR 50% attackers, level 58+ IM (1,625+%) is required to return more damage than AD (level 58+ IM is technically but not realistically possible).
Hiring a Desert Mercenary supplying Thorns or equipping [highlight]Bramble 'RalOhmSurEth'[/highlight] armour (Level 16-21 Thorns Aura When Equipped, 850-1,050%) can result in higher level Thorns. Better yet, equip your Necromancer or a Rogue Scout with the bow and the armour for a combined Level 31-36 Thorns Aura When Equipped (1,450-1,650%); against DR 0% attackers, level 52-60+ IM is required to return more damage than AD, making AD the clear choice.
If you want to maximise returned damage per hit, I'd suggest equipping a Thorns Paladin with a means of casting Amplify Damage so that he can curse monsters, then convert one or more of them: cursing before converting reduces the DR % of the future convert, increasing the damage taken and thus returned to attackers whose DR % has also been reduced by AD. A Rogue Scout's Inner Sight can also be cast on monsters to lower their defence so they get hit more often once converted, although this isn't critical.
