Kick/Trap Help

Thy Tempest

New member
Kick/Trap Help

Hello

I am currently playing a trapping kicksin

I have DS, LS and Dtal maxed(dtal maxed to get to lvl 30)
I am wondering if i should put pts into charged bolt sentry for lightning dmg, or fire blast for more shots on DS, as it only has 5 right now

I have ~7 skills saved up now, and have put i believe 5 in cbs, 1 in fb

Another question, Since i am a c/c, does it matter which claw is primary?

I know that only the primary's stats that would affect dmg/kick etc transfer, and not the secondary, but for the speed modifier and ias, it doesnt really matter, as long as i shael my primary, right?

tks for the help
tempest
 
You only need to make one thread. Sometimes it takes a while for a response to get through. ;)

I would put FB to level 3 base (for 1 extra shot), then put the rest in synergies. Also, if you don't already have it, then a level 1 Venom is nice to have around.

The WSM is the average of the two claws, so order won't matter there*. IAS is only counted from the primary, so shaels or any on-weapon IAS will not be counted there.




*It is possible for it to make a difference, but it usually takes intentional tweaking to work it properly.
 
Yeah, sorry about the double post, I completely forgot about my other post.

Tks for the info on wsm/ias, and i am using treachery, so i get a lvl 15 venom pretty quickly

Tempest
 
Hi Tempest

I cleared Uber Tristram last night with Tasmia, my kicker/trapper. It wasn't easy, but I didn't die once, and strangely (very strange), neither did my Shadow Master .... Merc lasted about 15 seconds :(

Tasmia is level 88, dual claw Bartuc and Jade Talon :

11 Dragon Talon ... 20 after skills (4 kicks)
MAX Death Sentry
MAX Lightning Sentry
MAX Shadow Master
1 CoS
1 Dragon Flight
1 BoS
1 Fade
rest in prerequisites and Weapon Block (21 after skills = 58%)

I recommend against Fire Blast .... if you have spare points, taking it up to 3 as Ilkori suggested increases DS to 6 shots, but it's also easy to recast. CBS only helps if you use LS a lot. I only ever use DS ... just drop a few Death Sentries and start kicking. With max DS and LS, the damage per blast is about the same for both - LS fires more shots, but the corpse explosion from DS is fantastic it's easy to recast if you're not switching skills all the time.

I don't use Mind Blast or Venom ... 1 point in MB wouldn't do any harm, but with Venom, the damage increase is negligible. Also, as I understand it, I kick faster that the Venom resolves, so it doesn't apply to every kick (it just resets). Elemental damage that applies directly to each kick appears to be more effective - I'm fortunate enough to own a "Dream" runeword tiara, which adds (about 700?) lightning damage each kick. Physical immunes are never a problem, except occasionally I notice that I'm not leeching life.

Make sure that you have Crushing Blow somewhere on your equipment.

Hope that helps.

Mahric
 
Yah, now that shes 72 and still sucks in hell even with her good boots (up gores), i am seriously thinking about remaking her with a max shadow mast instead of more in cbs only adds about 200 dmg to ls, and that is only used in massive grups to get some corpses quicker, and on bosses

tks for the info
 
The best k/t need high traps (including trap gcs), high cb (which screams last wish), and high physical damage (up'd gores with a damage aura if possible). Infinity on a merc is also handy, as is Static on striking.

It's sad to see another k/t scrapped.
 
ok well here I go...
I have a lvl 75 ghost trapper
20ds
15ls
20sm
and other points I cant remember where I placed at the moment besides the prerequists


I personaly dont use LS unless Im attacking a boss (normaly useless cuz DS hits with lightning a bit weaker but the CE effect rocks)

I mostly use my shadow master as a tank wile my merc backs her up and I cast my traps and then jump into the party...

If you ask my honest oppinnion SM is a great skill that will do more for a sin than any merc out their, besides if you havent invested points in mind blast dont worry she has a nice one that she uses alot. Also she is a lot more cheaper than the mercs to rez hehehehe
 
Agreed Ilkori

The K/T assassin is a combination of fast attack, high physical damage with crushing blow, and strong trap support. But I think the trick is to find a balance between them all.


1. Weapon/Shield:

Stormlash = Crushing blow + Static Field
or Last Wish = Crushing Blow + Might Aura + Life Tap
+
Stormshield
Treachery or Enigma Armour (+skills), Shako and Trap/Shadow Charms
=
higher DR, higher DEX for max block
lower LIFE and lower skills = lower traps, thus the armour choice.


2. Claw/Claw :

Bartuc (socket with BER = 20% Crushing Blow)
Jade Talon (resists)
+
Weapon Block
=
lower block (50%-58%)
lower crushing blow (35% BER and Gores)
higher LIFE and higher skills = higher traps
*Fortitude (increased damage+chilling armour, which looks cool) or Duress Armour (15% Crushing Blow, but not much else), Dream helm (Holy Shock and Confuse when struck, my favourite curse). No + skills on either, but I like the combined defence of Weapon Block, Chilling Armour, Confuse and CoS.


Upped Gores and Draculs for both builds
Ravenfrost
Amulet and second Ring fill in resists and/or Mana leech - I usually use Manald Heal and Metalgrid, sometimes swap to Carrion Wind+Crescent Moon, or rare amulet with Mana leech and resists (and reduced poison duration).


3. Merc:

Act2+Infinity (Might + Conviction)
Conviction is great for trap damage, CE damage and elemental damage from Stormlash or Dream, and Might Aura is good for physical damage. Holy Freeze merc is an option if using Last Wish. Merc uses Fortitude Armour or Duress or Bramble for Thorns (not great, but Assassin and Shadow gets thorns to).

Act1+Faith (Fanaticism)
Fanaticism is slightly better than Might. Merc has a ranged attack, good damage, faster attack speed and doesn't die as often as the Act2 merc. Merc uses Fortitude for extra damage or Bramble for another aura.


While I still need more time with the Weapon/Shield assassin, I'm currently in favour of the dual claw with an Act1 merc. While none of my attacks are exceptional, Fanaticism and Fortitude give solid kick damage (35% CB should activate at least once per kick sequence), Dream gives elemental damage for physical immunes, Death Sentry supports with lightning damage and corpse explosion (good enough without Conviction as its not my primary attack), while a high level Shadow Master and fast, high damage ranged merc both assist my killing speed.

Use Blade fury, traps and ranged merc for Arcane Sanctuary.

Both builds are effective in hell and the choice may be down to playing style. The best thing about the k/t is its versatility - it has few (if any) weaknesses in PvM and is great fun to play.

Mahric
 
I don't know about ur builds.. but myself i use only dtalon & ds & fade with sm and merc (but he dies so fast (tal helm,duriel,obedience-bad equipment)).. she stay good at 8ppl bnet games in pack of Souls, lister pack, etc..
89lev
120str
120dex
200life
20 dtalon + skills =30
20 master
20 ls
20 ds

helm - guilammes 15%ias 20pois res
armor - treachery
mara
draculs
upp gore
ik belt
raven
dwarfen
primary jade shael
second bartuc with 1 unused socket

and only on boses i use ls (becouse 10 hits)..
life tap helps stay in packs..
i have unused 9 skill points & 40 atrrib points (i think i put them in life)..
where my build is wrong? as i said that i use ds so put 9 skills in ls synergy - i think is bad idia(with sm, ds, dtalon she kill speed is fast, and no much problems light & phis imms)... differece between ls & ds is 1-2k & 1-1600 - is not so mach for averege damage..
so, any1 have any idias how to improve my build?...

sorry for my english.. ^)
 
Mahric said:
Agreed Ilkori

The K/T assassin is a combination of fast attack, high physical damage with crushing blow, and strong trap support. But I think the trick is to find a balance between them all.


1. Weapon/Shield:

Stormlash = Crushing blow + Static Field
or Last Wish = Crushing Blow + Might Aura + Life Tap
+
Stormshield
Treachery or Enigma Armour (+skills), Shako and Trap/Shadow Charms
=
higher DR, higher DEX for max block
lower LIFE and lower skills = lower traps, thus the armour choice.


2. Claw/Claw :

Bartuc (socket with BER = 20% Crushing Blow)
Jade Talon (resists)
+
Weapon Block
=
lower block (50%-58%)
lower crushing blow (35% BER and Gores)
higher LIFE and higher skills = higher traps
*Fortitude (increased damage+chilling armour, which looks cool) or Duress Armour (15% Crushing Blow, but not much else), Dream helm (Holy Shock and Confuse when struck, my favourite curse). No + skills on either, but I like the combined defence of Weapon Block, Chilling Armour, Confuse and CoS.



Use Blade fury, traps and ranged merc for Arcane Sanctuary.

Both builds are effective in hell and the choice may be down to playing style. The best thing about the k/t is its versatility - it has few (if any) weaknesses in PvM and is great fun to play.

Mahric

I would do all of that if i could afford it.

However , i did get a gul rune from my forge, and combined with rest of my stuff, i may be able to get her some better gear. After hearing all of this, i dont think i am going to remake.

tks
 
Sorry Thy Tempest,

The high end equipment discussion has moved on a bit (probably my fault) from the original question, which had to do with skill allocation. While better or more expensive equipment can improve any build, the K/T assassin is IMHO actually one of the builds LEAST dependent on equipment choice.

The primary source of damage for a k/t assassin comes from Death Sentry's corpse explosion, but you need to get the first corpse or two quickly, and to get through Hell, you will need to combine your skills so that you're dealing simultaneous damage from multiple sources. Your standard PvM tactics should be to cast CoS, drop a few Death Sentries, and then go in with your kicks and Shadow Master.

SKILLS :

MAX Death Sentry - MAX ... CE range and increased lightning damage.
MAX Lightning Sentry - MAX ... synergy only, increases lightning damage.
10+ Dragon Talon
10+ Shadow Master

Ideally, you want to get your Shadow to at least level 17 for the final equipment upgrade.

I don't normally max Dragon Talon - 3 kicks (level 12 after skills) works fine for me through Nightmare, but for Hell, I've moved up to 4 kicks. The damage increase from higher levels isn't that significant, and if you hold down your attack button, 7/3/3/3..7/3/3/3 isn't much different from 7/3/3/3/3/3. In fact, if you can take out a creature with 4 kicks, any additional kicks will actually slow you down because you can't move onto the next target until the sequence is complete. It's not a problem that you've already maxed Talon, but try dropping it from 30 to 29 and see if it makes any difference.


EQUIPMENT :

Good equipment will always make your like easier, but you don't need much in the way of specific equipment. + skills increase your lightning trap damage and Shadow Master, but are not nearly as important as they would be for a sorceress or necro. CoS/Blade Fury actually work better at low levels, and the DS corpse explosion damage is always the same, only range increases.

Similarly, since kick damage comes from your boots, weapon choice isn't a major issue either ... the only item that you NEED in order to use Dragon Talon, is a boot that does high damage. Gore Riders are the best, so you're fine there.

Crushing Blow !!

The strength of Dragon Talon isn't in its damage (which is pitiful), but rather its speed. It is one of the fastest attacks in the game and is an incredible way to transfer abilities that activate on striking. The most important of these is Crushing Blow, which is essential to compensate for your lack of raw physical damage. The CB percentage is applied to each of your kicks, so the higher you can get this the better ... Duress armour (SHAEL-UM-THUL) is good and easy enough to make, and you already have Gore Riders. While more is better, 30% CB should activate twice on most 6 kick sequences.

After that, consider ways to increase elemental damage and look at special CtC on striking effects that could increase damage or otherwise enhance the build, like the CtC Amplify Damage from Atma's Scarab or CtC Life Tap from Dracul's Grasp.

You don't need expensive runewords like INFINITY, FAITH and LAST WISH, an Act 2 merc with Might aura will increase your physical damage nicely. If you can make him a CRESCENT MOON polearm with SHAEL-UM-TIR, the damage can be quite good and he gets 7% CtC Static Field. Some life leech on his armour or helm will help keep him alive a bit longer, as will the Life Tap from Dracul's Grasp if you can get them. Another interesting option is TREACHERY (SHAEL-THUL-LEM), it's quite good for you, but may even be better on your merc - Venom, Fade and increased attack speed, but then he'll probably need LL on the helm.

For your equipment : Gore Riders are fantastic, Duress a good end game armour and Dracul's Grasp superb ... the rest doesn't matter much, but you'll want some life/mana leech, resistances and if possible, get your FHR up to 86%. Ravenfrost for the cannot be frozen mod, and some lightning absorb are useful too. For your weapons, Bartuc's Cut-throat and Jade Talons should both be affordable and are quite possibly the best end game weapons for dual-claw k/t assassin. Either could work as the primary claw - I use Bartuc, but Jade would give you the mana leech.

Your build so far looks fine - don't start over, but try to add a few points to your Shadow Master. Since you already have the best boots possible, you should be fairly well set. If you don't have a better use for your GUL rune, you may want to consider trading for a couple of UM runes (+ extra if you can) and try out Duress armour and Crescent Moon for your merc, but even more important IMO is to get yourself a pair of Draculs' Grasp.

:)

I do go on a bit - but this is my favourite build by far and I don't want you to give up on it.
 
Tks for the advice, but i am going to stick with my treachery, i need the ias, and the venom/higher fade is nice(fhr too)

current gear

jade/bartucs
treachery wyrm
draculs (6% e/d from the worst possible, great trade for unid huh?)
up'd gores
guillames
+1 mart art +life/mana +16 resist ammy
Nosferatus
2 leech rings, looking for a raven now

Since i had already put so many pts in cbs, i decided to just max it, only 1 point left now, but after that im moving onto getting SM, after having about 4.1K light sentry compared to a 1.6 death, i tend to use ls a bit more, so cbs was worth it imo. After playing more in hell however, i def. need a good merc and SM, which brings my next question

What merc?

I was thinking an A1 With an up'd GS or Harmony would be nice, and cheap

Pretty much the only other good choices would be an A2 Hf/Might/Defiance(def would help much since im low def anyway), or

An A5 with an eth honor or something

Input here please.
 
Merc is up to you - I like the auras, but the ladder runewords make Act1 mercs an option too ....

Act1 low level - Edge Bow (Thorns) or Harmony (Vigor)
Act1 high level - Faith Bow (Fanaticism)
Act2 Offensive (Might) + Insight (Meditation)
or Crescent Moon Polearm
or the very expensive Infinity Polearm(Conviction).

Bramble Armour (Thorns) and Dream Helm (Holy Shock) are fun too.

I have 3 level 85+ kickers and use different mercs, but I prefer the Act 1 merc because she don't die as often. Since my assassin and shadow are generally melee fighters, the ranged attack is helpful, but I can also move back to ranged with Blade Fury and Traps, leaving the shadow alone up front.

The flexibility is nice.

Holy Freeze interferes with Death Sentry I think, but can still be useful. Defiance is more effective when your defence is already high - doesn't help assassins much, but even more important for me is that a merc shouldn't be relied on for your own survival. Aura's like might and fanaticism are the best because they enhance your killing speed, but if you rely on auras like Defiance and Blessed Aim, you may find yourself in trouble when the merc dies.
 
Hi Mahric. Were you able to clear Uber Tristram on your own, or did you have help? I'm trying the same build out. Thanks for your time.

Mahric said:
Hi Tempest

I cleared Uber Tristram last night with Tasmia, my kicker/trapper. It wasn't easy, but I didn't die once, and strangely (very strange), neither did my Shadow Master .... Merc lasted about 15 seconds :(

Tasmia is level 88, dual claw Bartuc and Jade Talon :

11 Dragon Talon ... 20 after skills (4 kicks)
MAX Death Sentry
MAX Lightning Sentry
MAX Shadow Master
1 CoS
1 Dragon Flight
1 BoS
1 Fade
rest in prerequisites and Weapon Block (21 after skills = 58%)

I recommend against Fire Blast .... if you have spare points, taking it up to 3 as Ilkori suggested increases DS to 6 shots, but it's also easy to recast. CBS only helps if you use LS a lot. I only ever use DS ... just drop a few Death Sentries and start kicking. With max DS and LS, the damage per blast is about the same for both - LS fires more shots, but the corpse explosion from DS is fantastic it's easy to recast if you're not switching skills all the time.

I don't use Mind Blast or Venom ... 1 point in MB wouldn't do any harm, but with Venom, the damage increase is negligible. Also, as I understand it, I kick faster that the Venom resolves, so it doesn't apply to every kick (it just resets). Elemental damage that applies directly to each kick appears to be more effective - I'm fortunate enough to own a "Dream" runeword tiara, which adds (about 700?) lightning damage each kick. Physical immunes are never a problem, except occasionally I notice that I'm not leeching life.

Make sure that you have Crushing Blow somewhere on your equipment.

Hope that helps.

Mahric
 
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