Justification for cheating?

[suggestivename]

Most of what you are showing are VISUAL aids, thats all...all those things are fully possible within the game or are you telling me that you cannot read sockets when you pick it up?

Leave the game at low health and show other equipments must have been really recent additions to maphack, because they were not around when I had it...and they are not visual aids, they are visual spying which is not possible within the game no matter what you do.

This has nothing to do with rightous or whatever else labels you wish to give it, its common sense...heck even Ultima Online had the sense to add UOAssist as a legit program addition to their game (and banned all others) simply to give an aid to players and at the same time keep the features under control so nothing destructive was added.

Visual aids that provide unfair advantage. Charms are purple, making them stand out from a pile of items. You can check the sockets WITHOUT picking up the item with maphack. All of those features I mentioned have been around a LONG time, ever since early to mid 1.09.

Common sense? It's common sense to play the game within the rules and abiding by the eula. If you don't want to do so, fine, that's totally your choice, just don't try and call yourself legit or claim you don't have an unfair advantage.

If blizz wanted to make any maphack features real game features they would have done so already. So as I said before: cheat or don't cheat, theres no middle ground.

 

[Lord Chaos]

It doesn't give an unfair advantage...tops it levels the playing field for people...heck if you want to go for cheating, talk about netstats and other programs which allows you to see which server you connect to, so that you can get DC easier.

Its an unfair advantage amongst everyone elses unfair advantages.

If blizz wanted to make any maphack features real game features they would have done so already.

Or maybe they just didn't think about it, or didn't think it was worth working on for a free game....no idea, not all decisions Blizzard makes are smart ones.

cheat or don't cheat, theres no middle ground.

No, but the definition of cheat varies...heck, by the definition of "outside unfair advantage" we're ALL cheaters here.

 

[suggestivename]

It doesn't give an unfair advantage...tops it levels the playing field for people

Agreed, it levels the playing field for visually impaired players.

...heck if you want to go for cheating, talk about netstats and other programs which allows you to see which server you connect to, so that you can get DC easier.

That was incredibly ignorant, netstat is not cheating, it is COMPLETELY within the EULA and your rights to know what connections your computer has with other computers and servers. Blizz meant for Dclone to spawn on servers from selling soj, and that is EXACTLY what is happening. No unfair advantage since anyone can do it legally.

(Also netstat is not so much a program as it is a feature of windows, you don't need to download anything to use it.)

EDIT: The morality of doing this is arguable, the way I see it, it's so tough to get on a "hot" server even using netstat that it's really not important to worry about.

Or maybe they just didn't think about it, or didn't think it was worth working on for a free game....no idea, not all decisions Blizzard makes are smart ones.

They did a whole lot of work on this "free game" for 1.10 and I don't see any maphack features implemented. They are well aware of maphack and if they liked any parts of it I'm sure they wouldn't be making such a fuss about it.

And yes Blizzard often makes bad decsions, but that doesn't give you any right to break the EULA or rules of the game.

No, but the definition of cheat varies...heck, by the definition of "outside unfair advantage" we're ALL cheaters here.

How about the definintion as a 3rd party program which changes game code to provide an unfair advantage. Are we all still cheaters?

 

[Kitriara]

Please stop

No, we are not all cheaters here. It is not an outside unfair advantage for a group of people to get together and discuss something. So what, are all the programmers who attend Linux conferences getting an unfair advantage in the job market since they know more? It's just information exchange - how are people supposed to get better at the game if they dont talk to other players?

As for netstating the DC - that I dont agree with. I think its BS and people should just suck it up and hope he spawns. Sadly, this is a world/game where everyone thinks because a DC simply EXISTS that they have the right to fight him and get his drop... spoiled brats, man.

Suggestive has been 100% right with everything he has said.

Chaos, I have some news... just because Blizzard didnt make what you think were the smart/right decisions featurewise doesnt entitle you to them. Colored items let you locate things on crowded screens MUCH faster... these "visual aids" are NOT available through the game normally. If there is an option I've been missing to turn on special colors, please tell me where it is!

Your character has to run around the map to find things?... oh no! You have to play the game? Lets cry about it. Why the hell is everyone always rushing around anyways? To what? More endless boring baal runs?

Yes, duping and botting are worse than maphacking, however the increased speed on runs that it makes possible allows more elites than normal to be found and helps to unbalance the economy. But I wont say its worse than duping or anything... agreed there.

I dont rush, I dont hack, I dont cheat; I dont even twink characters anymore! It's amazing how much fun the game is when you simply play through, do all the quests, find the waypoints, etc... and I've been playing since the games release. It's not like you're gonna be on top of the ladder or anything right now anyways.

People who use a cheat are cheaters... props to everyone who keeps this game great by playing legit; and to the rest, consider making the realms a better place and uninstall your hacks.

Peace,
*Kitriara

 

[CookiesnCream]

It doesn't give an unfair advantage...tops it levels the playing field for people...heck if you want to go for cheating, talk about netstats and other programs which allows you to see which server you connect to, so that you can get DC easier.

Its an unfair advantage amongst everyone elses unfair advantages.



Or maybe they just didn't think about it, or didn't think it was worth working on for a free game....no idea, not all decisions Blizzard makes are smart ones.



No, but the definition of cheat varies...heck, by the definition of "outside unfair advantage" we're ALL cheaters here.

Well I do know someone who does use maphack and I can tell you that using maphack in hardcore is a lot easier than not using maphack. And in hardcore, knowing your enemies gear is an advantage in PvP. And there is a version of maphack that I'am aware of called "stinger's map hack" that allows you to use color in the text you type. You might think this is no big deal, but I have recently read reports if people using the color feature to try to pk people in hardcore. And not to mention maphack is a third party program and violates the user agreement.

 

[Cloud_Walker]

Objectively:
Nobody should use maphack, and it gives players unfair advantages because even things like viewing immunities on the map, or seeing sockets on the ground were not abilities programmed into the game by Blizzard. The game is meant to be played as it was bought. These are the rules of the game. Anything and everything used to break these rules was not meant to be in the game. If it was, then, obviously, they would be features of the game without use of such programs.
What I'm saying is, Blizzard set the level of the playing field. Anything at all that gives a player higher ground (such as viewing the map without exploring it) is cheating, and not allowed.

Subjectively:
Yes, maphack is the "lesser evil" of hacked D2. Most features just provide upfront information that you could have obtained by doing a little running around and mouse hovering. But STILL, such information was not intended to be given upfront, and maphack STILL is cheating. Period.

About the sorc teleport "advantage": It's not an advantage. Its just a class specific skill. Lets say that sorc tele's to a certain spot and a swarm of gloams ambushes her and she dies due to 800 life and 20 lightning resist. It's not like that sorc can accuse the barb of having an unfair advantage because he can run into that pack of gloams and tank them all with beserk because he has natural resist and BO. If she can, then every character and even monster in the game has an "unfair advantage".

 

[Lord Chaos]

but that doesn't give you any right to break the EULA or rules of the game.

Just to give you a little headsup before you start too much about the EULA. It is not valid here and our laws override Blizzards...like for instance I can install 1000000 copies of Diablo if I so please and for instance I may alter the code of the game in any way I chose that allows me to play the game (like No-CD hacks, etc.)

Blizzard on the other hand can ban me for any reason and still restrict battlenet (but not single player), so that balances eachother out.

Oh and another note, several programs here, PLUS gaining the information from the MPQ files are also against the EULA.

And as a final note...the singleplayer ATMA program or heck even netstats, all violate the exact same EULA rule as maphack does.

 

[Lord Chaos]

How about the definintion as a 3rd party program which changes game code to provide an unfair advantage.

So you would be ok with sites that gave out exploits or windows programs/drivers/etc. that gave unfair advantage in the game?

 

[Orion241]

Heh, I don't know if I want to get into this discussion or not. Most MH threads end up quickly degenerating into ten pages of flaming.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. :uhhuh:

I feel that maphack is cheating to a certain extent, no matter minor it is. Alot of players don't use it as they want to play the game the way it was meant to be played. On the other hand, maphack is readily available to anyone who would want it, so it's not like a maphack user has an advantage noone else can have. It's a double-edged sword and the debate could go on from now until Diablo 3. :yawn:

 

[Lord Chaos]

No, we are not all cheaters here. It is not an outside unfair advantage for a group of people to get together and discuss something.

Hey, its a breach of the EULA to disassemble the MPQ files or other Diablo files to gain an information advantage over other players in ALL playstyles..knowing how the game mechanics works down to that degree gives you an advantage.

]As for netstating the DC - that I dont agree with. I think its BS and people should just suck it up and hope he spawns. Sadly, this is a world/game where everyone thinks because a DC simply EXISTS that they have the right to fight him and get his drop... spoiled brats, man.

Oh yes, so sorry for spending 350+ dollars on this game, logging in thousands of hours of gameplay and actually expect to actually try out a game feature...I so humbly appologize[/dripping sarcasm]

Colored items let you locate things on crowded screens MUCH faster... these "visual aids" are NOT available through the game normally. If there is an option I've been missing to turn on special colors, please tell me where it is!

Faster is relative compared to whom you are, if you natively read english or read it very fast and easy.

Your character has to run around the map to find things?... oh no! You have to play the game? Lets cry about it. Why the hell is everyone always rushing around anyways? To what? More endless boring baal runs?

We log in about 6-10 hours of Diablo 2 play per day, so don't preach to me about PLAYING the game, I don't do endless boring bhaal runs, I actually play the game...to bad its only those really fast spiffy people who do NOT who gets all the rewards of the game.

Yes, duping and botting are worse than maphacking, however the increased speed on runs that it makes possible allows more elites than normal to be found and helps to unbalance the economy. But I wont say its worse than duping or anything... agreed there.

Oh yeah, LOL...we were simply dripping with elites 1.09 with maphack...As I said earlier, I'd rather it made semi-legit and its features controlled...things like full map is something I can live without.

I dont rush, I dont hack, I dont cheat; I dont even twink characters anymore! It's amazing how much fun the game is when you simply play through, do all the quests, find the waypoints, etc... and I've been playing since the games release. It's not like you're gonna be on top of the ladder or anything right now anyways.

Different strokes for different folks, I like doing alot of things in the game...and no, I don't really aim to get on the top of the ladder...heck, our highest character is only level 88.

 

[sasja]

Or maybe they just didn't think about it, or didn't think it was worth working on for a free game....no idea, not all decisions Blizzard makes are smart ones.

No, and you can decide whether you want to play their game or not. You can even decide whether to cheat or not, until you're banned (hopefully soon). What you can't decide is whether using maphack is cheating. Diablo and any other game has rules. Some of the rules you can disagree with and hope will change, but as long as those are the rules, breaking them is cheating and is bound to piss people off. Especially if you do it on closed bnet, which is made to be a safe heaven for people who don't want to cheat. Why else would I have my chars on their server, with no way to make a backup to guard against body popping etc? It's because I want to find other non-cheaters to play the game with. Using maphack there is an offense to the legit people there.

No, but the definition of cheat varies...heck, by the definition of "outside unfair advantage" we're ALL cheaters here.

No, it doesn't vary, and no, we're not all cheaters. None of the game's rules are about sharing information. Some of the game's rules are about what part of the map you can see, the colour of unique, magical and socketed drops, etc. If you want to change it, I think you should be allowed - I'm all for Open Source. Just stay away from the place made for and inhabited by the people who want to play the game as it is.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Yes, it is against the rules to disassemble the MPQ files and other Diablo files to gain game information, as is using netstats, etc.

 

[suggestivename]

Just to give you a little headsup before you start too much about the EULA. It is not valid here and our laws override Blizzards...like for instance I can install 1000000 copies of Diablo if I so please and for instance I may alter the code of the game in any way I chose that allows me to play the game (like No-CD hacks, etc.)

Bzzt wrong, by playing on battle.net you waive the laws and accept the eula. If you play single player you can do whatever.

Oh and another note, several programs here, PLUS gaining the information from the MPQ files are also against the EULA.

List those programs and I'm sure Elly will take them down, since this site prides itself on its legitness. Or maybe you were just making things up to support your feeble argument.

	A. Subject to the Grant of License hereinabove, You may not, in
	whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse
	engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile,
	create derivative works based on the Program, or remove any
	proprietary notices or labels on the Program without the prior
	consent, in writing, of Blizzard.

You are misreading(or did you even read?) that passage is talking about copying the code to create a similar game. It's to protect the code, not game information.

And as a final note...the singleplayer ATMA program or heck even netstats, all violate the exact same EULA rule as maphack does.

Have you even read the End User License Agreement?

You are entitled to use the Program for your own use, but you
	are not entitled to: emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by
		Blizzard in the network feature of the Program, through
		protocol emulation, tunneling, [/color][color=white][b]modifying or adding
		components to the Program, use of a utility program, or any
		other techniques now known or hereafter developed for any
		purpose[/b], including, but not limited to, network play over
		the Internet, network play utilizing commercial or
		non-commercial gaming networks, or as part of content
		aggregation networks without the prior written consent of
		Blizzard;

Explain how viewing netstats breaks this? And as you said earlier, single player doesn't have to abide by the eula, so ATMA is a moot point. Way to contradict yourself.

However maphack is clearly adding components to the Program, and it is a utility program. This is quite clear if you read.

Anyways, this argument is venturing far away from my original point. If you want to cheat, do so at your own risk. Just stop trying to argue that you are somehow entitled to cheat, or that your cheating is somehow ok or right. Cheating is cheating, but I'm not here to tell you not to do it. You just need to understand that you are, in fact cheating.

 

[Dredd]

*Steps back into MH thread*

Ugh, why am I getting myself involved in this again?!

Just stay away from the place made for and inhabited by the people who want to play the game as it is.

Right there, and thank you sasja. That is truly what makes me so angry when I see Maphack polluting the realms. The concept behind Closed Battlenet was to create a cheat-free environment where everyone is on equal footing. Maphack changes that dynamic by giving an unfair advantage that was not intended by the game's designers.

I have used Maphack. I have used editors and trainers and dupes and bugged items and just about everything else you can think of. But guess what?! I used those programs/cheats on Open Battlenet and SP. That stuff doesn't belong on Closed BNet under any circumstances. I'm not going to start doing so by concocting some weak justification that it somehow "levels the playing field" or "well, everybody else does it". It is NOT fair to the legit players. If you feel you need Maphack or any of its associated 'features', go play on Open Bnet and you'll never hear me complain ever again.

Chaos, the fact that you believe that the game would somehow be more fair by changing the color palette of certain items is a strawman arguement that is almost ridiculous. Runes are white. They are white for everybody. Whoever manages to spot the rune in the sea of white items deserves to have it. It is fair. If Blizzard decides to change that, great. They will change it for everybody then. Fair. Don't think you need to take the initiative and do it yourself, that is just selfish.

"Mumble, grumble"

*Kicks sand on evil maphack thread and steps out*

 

[Usufruct]

Just to give you a little headsup before you start too much about the EULA. It is not valid here and our laws override Blizzards...like for instance I can install 1000000 copies of Diablo if I so please and for instance I may alter the code of the game in any way I chose that allows me to play the game (like No-CD hacks, etc.)

What are you talking about man? We're not talking about laws here, we're talking about an End User Lisence Agreement. You get caught using third party programs, blizzard bans your noob ***, and you can do nothing about it.

Fact: Maphack is a cheat.
Fact: Those who use maphack are by definition, cheaters.
Fact: There can be no legitimate justification for cheating.

Stop trying to justify it, you dirty bastard cheater.

 

[Daemonaz]

lord chaos has a point there. as far as i know all those tables and infos from the mpq files is an unfair advantage over those who arent able to get those infos.

Although that might be, it's a whole different thing than seeing a maphack user picking up runes quicker than others cause he just sees them quicker. There's a difference between an indirect and direct effect here.

Furthermore, I know a MH user who has a tendency to always run to the uber chest just because he knows where it is. Thus stealing drops from others, because they don't know. Etc.

Furthermore, I get sick of the "Hey I want your perfect WTs, what you want for them?" I mean I'm wearing them, does it look like they are for trade? That whole let me check someone elses stuff is in invasion of someones privacy in my opinion. And a main reason for class distinction: "OMG YOU NOOB!!! YOU HAVE CRAPPY ITAMZ!!!"

Anyways, we're going down the same line again, this has been discused to death. You either use it or you don't and I don't.

 

[Dredd]

Fact: Maphack is a cheat.
Fact: Those who use maphack are by definition, cheaters.
Fact: There can be no legitimate justification for cheating.

Stop trying to justify it, you dirty bastard cheater.

:worship: Amen. Now let's get our pitchforks and torches and lynch this thread.

Threads containing the word 'Maphack' should be auto-deleted. :clap:

 

[Lord Chaos]

Bzzt wrong, by playing on battle.net you waive the laws and accept the eula.

Bzzt wrong, I cannot waiver the law by accepting any document, end of story...Blizzard could not kill you just because they wrote "You give us permission to kill you" in their EULA.

List those programs and I'm sure Elly will take them down, since this site prides itself on its legitness. Or maybe you were just making things up to support your feeble argument.

*shrugs*...last I checked the singleplayer forum linked to ATMA.

You are misreading(or did you even read?) that passage is talking about copying the code to create a similar game. It's to protect the code, not game information.

Its you who is misreading it, this INCLUDES hacking for game information, code, etc.

Have you even read the End User License Agreement?

Yes, have you?

And as you said earlier, single player doesn't have to abide by the eula, so ATMA is a moot point. Way to contradict yourself.

Single player is as much under the EULA as battlenet is...try again.

Anyways, this argument is venturing far away from my original point. If you want to cheat, do so at your own risk. Just stop trying to argue that you are somehow entitled to cheat, or that your cheating is somehow ok or right. Cheating is cheating, but I'm not here to tell you not to do it. You just need to understand that you are, in fact cheating.[/color]

Please quote me where I said it was my right...I think its you who's making it up.

 

[suggestivename]

Threads containing the word 'Maphack' should be auto-deleted. :clap:

Wrong, threads about maphack get dung flung at them:

*flings dung at maphack thread*

*...flings more dung at maphack thread*

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE WORKING!

*Loads Weapon of Mass Dungafycation*

*KABLAMMMMO!!!!*

 

[Lord Chaos]

What are you talking about man? We're not talking about laws here, we're talking about an End User Lisence Agreement. You get caught using third party programs, blizzard bans your noob ***, and you can do nothing about it.

Fact: Maphack is a cheat.
Fact: Those who use maphack are by definition, cheaters.
Fact: There can be no legitimate justification for cheating.

Stop trying to justify it, you dirty bastard cheater.

They can ban us for saying any word containing the letter "A" if they wished, this has nothing to do with the EULA.

*shrugs*...you will propably get banned on battlenet long before I would.