Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism's Orb-it-aller

Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

This is of course as everyone else has mentioned a great build.

I played it untwinked, in hardcore until level 76 (I had a single +skill item). And I had solo'd every act and every baal run up until that point with very little trouble, and this is the first char I've ever gotten to hell untwinked that had absolutely no trouble clearing though once in hell. I played a max blocker - using twitchtroe/deflecting bone shield. I had found a wizard spike which probably made hell alot more tolerable. And my merc was armed to the bone with a low level insight and a guardian templar coat which I had off baal.

Then I got one shot by hell Szzarc :(



What I learned:
When your merc dies in one hit - Don't stand next to that mob
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

meteor also shreds hell meph, or anyone whos busy not paying attention

i like this build, the first one i made wasnt great as it had too much str [156 hard points]
i remade it, and it works well for rushing and general pvm

This is what I dont understand about this build. Why put 20pts in Fbolt when you could swap those 20 into meteor, for the same +14%dmg/lvl to Fball? At lvl20 meteor/lvl20 FB & lvl10 FM that gives you about 7k fire dmg for meteor, + area effect. For the packs of gloams above, a better tactic for me is cast a meteor in the middle of them while teleporting around them. They are ranged so dont move while the fire dmg burns 'em. I realise then this build would just be more or less a standard meteorber, but I have put 10 points into ice bolt to strengthen my orb but only 10 into FM. It would still be a FO/FB build, but just have a stronger back-up 3rd spell in meteor rather than fire bolt.



 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Jack,

My guess is that Socialism is just saving the 4 extra points needed to get Meteor, since hes not actually USING meteor for anything (he said it was just too slow). I kind of agree that meteor is a pain to play with and it may shred Mephisto, but you can kill mephis just fine with FO/static. I think its just a play style preference. I built a few Meteorb sorcs and always hated them in Hell, trying to kill things with meteor. But maybe I was supposed to be killing them with fireball all along? :) Obviously Meteor is better than firebolt as a skill, but this build doesn't really NEED a 3rd skill.
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Jack,

My guess is that Socialism is just saving the 4 extra points needed to get Meteor, since hes not actually USING meteor for anything (he said it was just too slow). I kind of agree that meteor is a pain to play with and it may shred Mephisto, but you can kill mephis just fine with FO/static. I think its just a play style preference. I built a few Meteorb sorcs and always hated them in Hell, trying to kill things with meteor. But maybe I was supposed to be killing them with fireball all along? :) Obviously Meteor is better than firebolt as a skill, but this build doesn't really NEED a 3rd skill.

Why have points in the cold armours tho? Thats 2 points saved there, then 2 out of CM (with +skills, those 2 are pointless anyway IMO) & there you go, meteor. I think that hardly anyone uselss a meteober as meteor/FO, most people use it as FO/FB, using meteor for packs/bosses, as I do. I would suggest a merge of this build & a meteorber would be the most effective route-

Cold
20 orb
10 mastery
10 Ice bolt
4 pre-reqs

Lightning
1 teleport
1 pre-reqs

Fire
20 FB
20 Meteor
10 FM
4 pre-reqs

Only 100 points, done at an easily achievable 89. With an easy +5 all skills, it gives FB dmg of about 2,5k, meteor dmg of about 6k & about 400 orb dmg with -90% resistance from mastery. With this, you could solo hell with relative ease in a 1 player game, add in another 4 or 5 +skills, & 3, 4 or 5 player games become just a do-able.

As for not needing a 3rd skill, no, really you probably dont need a 3rd skill. But if you have 20 points to put into a synergy, why put it into a skill you will never use when you could, for the same synergy to the primary skill, put it into a very usefull skill that you could use if you needed to? Place your merc in a doorway, a load of cold immunes swarm up to him, meteor on him & fry them all without spamming FB. This works particularly well on countess runs, as all her minions are cold immunes. I also find that if I come across a pack of ranged attackers (such as gloams) casting a meteor in the middle of them, tele-ing away & then leaving the meteor to burn them for a while works much better than attempting to tele around spamming FO or FB, & is much safer too.



 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

I've made this sorc, gear and all (except those boots. definitely opted for war travs for the MF and to lighten the strength load for the spirit monarch), and I must say that it is fantastic. Everything easily dies using just fo and fb. I don't miss meteor at all. The setup allows for just enough survivability and speed to literally stand in front of meph (and many other enemies) and spam fb-fb-fb-fo-fb-fb-fb-fo until they're toast.

I read up a lot because I was under the common misconception that partial tal rasha was better (replacing the staff and helm with shako and occy/other), but I'm officially a convert now. The full set is great!
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

I stayed away from Tals set. Mainly because I just rushed this char and plopped on most of the gear from my pure orber. See, this is basically an orber, it's just that it has the luxury of a hefty fireball when you really need it. For those, perplexed about the ommision of meteor and the 5 points in teleport, ... read the guide again. This sorc is to be played aggressively. I will quote:
Dual-tree builds keep you self-sufficient and efficient (if you read the Hardcore forum… you’d know I’m all about efficiency/aggressive playstyles …and that I’m Awesome [note: general descriptor and character name]). Meteor’s great, but too slow for me. I’ll prune the 4 skill points.

[highlight]Kill stuff[/highlight]

Frozen Orb on left mouse button (but don’t use shift-click while spellspamming) – this never changes

For big-life mobs that stand up to you:
1) hold down the right mouse button (RMB) to cast Frozen Orb
2) without releasing RMB, hotkey to Fire Ball
3) wait for the 1-second-timer from Orb to expire, then without releasing RMB, hotkey to Frozen Orb
4) if enemy still exists, repeat ad nauseum from #2

Frozen Orb from slvl 1 becomes your primary attack; Fire Ball is just an afterthought for Cold Immunes and helping Orb (in between casts) destroy huge-life-enemies (whee 8-player Izual).

With infinicast Teleport (slvl high enough + mana pool large enough + regen rate fast enough to let me teleport indefinitely), I held down the RMB and never let go… I’d teleport in place while waiting for the group. Enemy pops on screen = hotkey to Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike if necessary, Fire Ball, Frozen Orb, etc—meanwhile, the RMB is still depressed from 10 minutes ago.

Not exactly something that lends itself to meteor. As for the 5 in teleport, well, if you don't play hardcore, then you don't need them. Pretty simple really. Having said that, it's nice to have that low cost tp if your insight merc dies and since those 5 points wouldn't make a huge difference elsewhere then why not have that nice buffer?
The point in the cold armour is great for areas like frigid highlands where you WILL encounter mass hard hitting ranged attacks and since you don't have block ....
Basically, you need to to think of this as an extension of the pure orber. If you want a meteorb, .... go build a meteorb.
My orb does just over 800 max without anything that adds to cold damage (except + skills ofc) and chews through screens of non cold immunes. My fireball is nicely effective at a bit under 5 k max (could get more but I use a 3 cold ammy), which at my current 105 fcr is more than enough (still gathering the gear to try a 200 fcr version - just crafted a 20fcr ammy tho so almost there :)) to take down anything that might give me and my merc some trouble. It's also lovely to have on tower level 5 since, well obviously, it speeds things up greatly.
My current gear is:
Shako "ort"
Upped 35 res viper "Um" (50 res then)
3 cold/ 22 dr amulet
HotO (39 res)
Spirit monarch
Arachnid mesh
Dual sojs
Sandstorm treks
Magefists
Torch/anni
2 or 3 cold skillers (not needed but I had them).

Switch is CtA/Spirit and merc is the Prayer/Insight sort with blackhorns helm.

Level 88 at the moment and extra points have been going into ice bolt.
Due to the amount of + skills I knew I'd have, I only needed 1 point in cold mastery.
If souls really bother you (erm, they bother most people without max res and some sort of absorb btw..) then tele past/around them, go kill baal and then make another run where there might not be souls and you can go hog wild.
If you want to kill everything, every time, then stack lightning res rather than all res, since once all the other res's are near max or max then you don't really need any more. Lightning is the only element that that will one shot omgwtfpwn you, so protect against it. Also, souls are kinda double trouble in that they will gobble your mana too. Take steps to minimise the problems this might cause. A holy freeze merc would mostly likey be the top choice for wsk tbh, since you'll both have a much easier time against souls with his aura but then I've not used a holy freeze merc in a while, so don't take my word on that.
You shouldn't really have any problems with this build unless you're building from scratch as your first character - which would be like completely ignoring the guide in the first place. You do need a teensy bit of D2Wealth to get this one running nicely.
MrGohl - lose the visceratuant, gain a spirit :)


 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Nice guide as always, but there's always a price to pay for aggressiveness: the user is expected to possess the necessary skill (if not itamz) to avoid mishaps with certain boss packs in the area of ultimate leveling.
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Wow. When did this thing get stickied?! Guess I've been away awhile.

Anyhow; everyone - thanks for your comments and whatnot. I'll answer what I can as briefly as I can.

I completely love your sarcastic approach to the way you made this guide.
Best thing I can honestly say I've read in along time Diablo related.
Sir, I admire your honesty and awesomeness. Thanks, and high five.

I hate Meteor too, but I just don't understand why you would want to sacrifice an option like this just to gain 12% extra Fireball damage. Could you explain this decision a bit further?

Also: 5 skill points in Teleport? Sure, you're saving mana, but... Why man, why?
Meteor does nothing for me that Fire Ball can't. The # of times that I've thought, "man, I could really use a good Meteor right about now" have numbered... 3. Or maybe 4. The "what if" scenarios just don't come up that frequently -- and when they do, they get solved by Fire Ball fast enough for me not to wish I'd have picked up a skill that I'd so very rarely ever use.

Teleportwise, anything that gets you closer to infinicast teleport is worth its weight in skill points. Especially if you're dumping Insight. I'm sure I had better reasons, but the two off the top of my head right now are: 1) safety vs. mana burn and 2) convenience.

which should be the main skill. Orb or fireball.
Orb, then Fire Ball.

I am considering switching out my Defiance merc for a Holy Freeze one.
This is fine for normal/nightmare, considering Defiance only shines when you're wearing beefy 700+ armor and no longer rely on walking/running. When you reach endgame, you'll see greatly improved merc survival with Defiance over HF (vs bosses).


just curious as to the advantages of bolt over meteor?
(see above)


Socialism talks about getting bored with it because its so overpowered. I want to believe him, and he didn't steer me wrong with the Budget Teleporting MF Hardcore Sorc, so I have faith. But.....

At what point am I going to start feeling overpowered?
The build's overpowered with regular runewords and blue/yellow items once you get the 'right' mix.

You're far too low at level 76 to be doing solo WSK runs; consider that your mercenary won't last long enough to be a distraction. Also, if you're knowingly going into gloam-heavy areas without mana burn immunity (read: infinicast) and stacked lightning resistance, nobody can help you. Don't rush! You're probably also not feeling overpowered because you're not casting frequently enough. I'll bet you're not fully blue-potioned-up... since a strong-enough Fire Ball should be putting gloams into hit recovery anyway...


meteor also shreds hell meph, or anyone whos busy not paying attention

i like this build, the first one i made wasnt great as it had too much str [156 hard points]
i remade it, and it works well for rushing and general pvm
Glad you're seeing success. I hate overdosing on stats, too.


When your merc dies in one hit - Don't stand next to that mob
Hah! Thanks for making my thread the one you have your first post in. Way to go! Looks like you learned your lesson; fire and forget - move on, forge ahead, improve! Good luck.


You shouldn't really have any problems with this build unless you're building from scratch as your first character - which would be like completely ignoring the guide in the first place. You do need a teensy bit of D2Wealth to get this one running nicely.
MrGohl - lose the visceratuant, gain a spirit :)
Scozzers, you're always a source of important insight and information. I do disagree with you on one point though -- the untwinked part. Cakewalk build, man, just cakewalk (as long as people aren't rushing/skipping stages of level progression)!


Nice guide as always, but there's always a price to pay for aggressiveness: the user is expected to possess the necessary skill (if not itamz) to avoid mishaps with certain boss packs in the area of ultimate leveling.

Shanks! The level of skill you describe isn't unique to this build; it's applicable to every (insert fragile character) out there. No guide can compensate for inexperience!



Edit: Someone made a note at some point about wasting skill points on Shiver Armor (or something to that effect). 700+ defense armor + Defiance + Shiver Armor = significantly safer than the alternative.



 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

I like this guide. Short and sweet, speaks to the way I play a Sorc.

As I play SC, I'd personally forego the safety aspects and go all out for as much damage as possible; I'd also go for less CM and more raw Orb damage (synergy) as I enjoy area clear style MF more than Boss runs. I agree that 2% per lvl from Ice Bolt is not crappy. Orb can be a horrendous wrecking ball when it's given the power, and much more than 2% per lvl would be nuts.

Anyway... nice job. :thumbsup:
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Yes, but since the thread title starts off with HC, it would be nice to see more tips on surviving the rigors of regular baal running. Right now it can easily pass off as a SC guide with multiple points in teleport (which is possibly not so significant by itself) and strict adherence to breakpoint targets.

Also, I suspect the points in Ice Bolt can be better spent elsewhere (ES/TK?) to improve survivability, which is the No. 1 HC concern. I fully understand the argument for a stronger Orb, but just want to make sure I'm not missing anything here.
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

It is true that points could be parsed from Ice Bolt to allow for ES/TK use in this build but in my experience its unnecessary.

There are two situations I see people creating this character, which I will address in turn.
First, if you are playing the character untwinked and completing full clears you'll be well aware of your characters limitations by the time ES/TK really shines (Hell Teleporting) as you'll have been constantly balancing and reassessing your build as circumstances dictate. When you get to the point where you fell comfortable investing in strength rather than vitality for a level and pumping fireball rather than orb based on the level of safety you fell with your surroundings its a fair assumption you know just how far you can push the character you're piloting.
Second, if you are gearing this character from mules you should have no problem hitting the requisite defense to ward off most attacks when properly played. At this point we have a character who is not supposed to be hit, much like a Hardcore Summoner, and as such the discussion is analogous to the relative merits of maxing Bone Armor or maxing DV/Corpse Explosion. In the instance of this sorceress, the points in Ice Bolt as a synergy to Frozen Orb (as has been explained in Shaharris' idiotic rambling fashion) are a form of ranged protection. The increase in damage results in hit recovery and a chilling effect that will both kill your enemy faster and prevent him from attacking you. The advantage this build has over a standard Summoner is that it does not need to spend extra points to cover the eventuality of attacks landing - with no dexterity requirement you'll have high life and you are much more mobile than a Necromancer who would be a sitting duck outside of his minions.

In the end as long as the proper play style is used, the only time ES/TK would benefit you is while teleporting and the 5 base points in Teleport in combination with the points in cold armors cover this area in adequate depth for a lesser investment in points. Over time many of the HC sorc builds (even Orb/TK) have moved beyond a heavy investment in TK, preferring to focus on FCR and a balance of power and safety that seems to yield the best results. That said, the character is yours - feel free to customize the build as desired. If you feel the need to invest in ES/TK you should do so, but in my experience it will not be as beneficial as the dual function of a stronger Frozen Orb.

On a more general note to address the general nature of questions in the thread thus far: this build accomplishes its goals in an exemplary fashion. It gives you a balance of power and safety that is in all aspects in keeping with the style of the character and allows you to go anywhere in the game with the combination of Orb/FB/Static. It is not a plodding Meteor build, rather it strikes from distance while constantly moving to avoid retaliation. In order to accommodate the large amount of teleportation required for this play style infinicast teleport is a high priority. This benefits you in battle as well as during transit and in my personal opinion should not be viewed as optional. When you get mana burned and can't teleport away from the gloams lining you up I think you'll tend to agree.

Cheers
-Tai
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

I think i had almost this exact sorc in Season 2 and it worked well.

Another reason for maxing firebolt instead of meteor is if you are not getting a full hell rush. Having a lvl 1 skill to start killing with is just amazing.

Aside from that, I would just like to throw out there that this build works with lightning instead of fireball.

CB gives you great boss damage at high levels and lightning gives good straight line damage. Though a lightning variant is admittedly worse versus gloams.
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

When playing this build solo, untwinked, Call To Arms seems to be harder to get until later. That being said, without CTA or a BO friend in tow, can this build safely do NM or Hell Mehpis runs teleporting WITHOUT a high block?

I am confident in the infinicast teleporting with 5 hard points invested and +skills, but with no blocking would that be suicide to go through NM/Mephis runs to get gear as you play?

If this IS too dangerous, what would you recommend as far as magic finding runs until CTA/Full Tal Rasha gear comes on board? Walking the pits or other areas?

I plan on using this build at ladder reset, but I wonder how to gear it up until I can get CTA/Monarch Shield etc. Socialism said he would take this over a hammerdin to start a season for magicfinding...I'm wondering what kind of magic finding you do before you get that CTA (areas?mephis runs? or do you just trade for the runes?)

PS Ive never been able to figure out where to trade consistently? Do most people use forum posts and emails to set it up or hang out in the crazy trade channels?

Thanks,

MrGohl
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

MrGohl, I'm not sure of your definition of untwinked (some people do define it differently), but to me that means using only items you find with this character.

If that's your definition too, don't EVER count on CtA for playing untwinked, because it's going to take you ridiculous luck (or several thousands of runs) to find the necessary runes. Finding either the Mal or Ist is very lucky on its own (2/11 chance for one from your hellforge quest in hell). Finding Ohm and the other necessary runes is going to take almost unbelievable luck.


Yes you can safely do runs without block. In hell or NM. And without CtA. You won't be invincible by any means, but if you're moderately cautious (read: intelligent) in your playstyle, you can be quite safe.


The emphasis for choosing equipment for MFing should be a balance of 4 things:
1. +skills to help your power (+5/+15)
2. Faster Cast Rate to help your speed (63 / 105)
3. Resistances to help you survive (75 fire & lightning, ~25+ cold & poison / 75 all)
4. Magic Find to help your drops (100-200 / 250-350)

... this is true no matter your wealth. So focus on picking up items with those 4 things (a little +mana and Faster Hit Recovery wouldn't hurt either).

The numbers I put in parenthesis should be your rough goals for (poor / rich).
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

SirPoopsAlot,

(I giggle when I type that). Thanks for the reply. I guess the part of the original post that made me scratch my head was: use full tal rasha's set, and CTA....BUT this is also the build I (Socialism) would use to start a season. Seemed like some really good gear to be counting on to be starting a season.

So...the first time i made this build, I hadn't even sniffed a monarch shield in my limited time in hell diff, so I figured I'd make it max block so I could at least do Mephis runs. This second incarnation of my sorc, i do at least have the spirit shield in storage, so I'm going to go 156 str and res in vitality, but its nice to know i can still do teleport runs for gear if needed.

Socialism mentioned stacked lightning resistances in his reply to me, is he talking about having like Thundergod's for +85 to res or does he mean having more than 75% worth of charms in your inven so that when mobs lower your resis you still have a good amount?

I guess I dont mean strictly untwinked, since I do mule, but its only the accumulated wealth of one player (and that player tends to die not long after level 78 or so in hell :) )
Also, I haven't traded, but would love to, if I could figure out a good way to accomplish it.

Thanks,

MrGohl
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

The gear suggested is just that: suggested. He doesn't give the impression that one would have that gear at the very start of a season. The "rich man's gear setup" is something to trade for when it becomes available; in the meantime, aim for what the suggested gear gives until you can obtain it.

I don't mean to condescend; I'm just trying to clarify Socialism's intentions.
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

No offense taken. Aiming for what the suggested gear provides (FCR, skills, res, MF) is the right plan, and what I was doing anyway. I'm more asking of how to MF through the game or overal gameplan for gearing up(since I wont have CTA or the full tal's set at beginning) For instance, at what point should I start Hell Baal runs(he said level 76 was too low). Should i use this toon to do Hell Mephis runs w/o block but with nice FCR and infinicast teleport? Should I slowly walk areas instead, like pits, or WSK?

Thanks for the help,

MrGohl
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

With this setup you're going the vita route and not max block because there simply aren't enough state points available to get enough max block and have enough left over for a decent chunk of life. This build relies on FCR/FHR breakpoints and infinicasts with a playstyle emphasis on teleing around for safety for survival.

You should be able to handle most areas with relative ease. Obviously in HC you should be moving more carefully. I do run pits and WSK from time to time and I tend to walk and occasionally tele back to cleared areas when things look sketchy. this character's range and quickness really make it as safe an option as it gets.
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

I run hell meph easily with my merc & 75% block with a heater with 'Rhyme' in it. I have no CtA or BO or any high-end RW, just full tals & usual MF gear. I use this build but with 20pts in Meteor instead of bolt (I think I may have mentioned that?! ;) )
 
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

a couple of quick questions....I just lost a lvl 60 orbit-all sorc today. I died running Andy in NM....tele'd into a group of enemies and got hit several times...obviously I was missing FHR.

I have literally no gear worth talking about. Money is easy to come by. Socialism told me today that I can buy the right gear. I'm wondering what I should be looking for...priorities. Would FHR be high on the list? FCR? Res? Do I need to get a socketed shield and put a diamond or two in it early on? Any advice would be greatly appreciated :-)
 
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