Guide: WS K Amazon

[wangbu]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

First of all thank you Fishy for this guide! I re-specked my WWS strafer into the fishyzon and I must say it is awesome!!!! :crazyeyes::thumbsup::thumbup:

In two days of playing this zon I have accumulated the following:
2 facets (I already traded one for a mara)
5os BA (not sure if this is counted as a magic find)
a tal armor
an eth titans (which I'm using now)

and the best of it all!!!!!! a Zod rune! yes it is legit! woohoo!!!!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/legitzod.jpg/ :yes::yes::yes:

 

[baldanders]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

5os BA (not sure if this is counted as a magic find)

The opposite, really- high MF makes good whites less likely, just because it makes whites less likely.

Congratulations on the Zod. Have yet to find one myself... they are more common in 1.13, but still pretty rare . Unfortunately they only have two uses... here's hoping you also find a good use for it. No matter what you do with it you will have some bragging rights.

EDIT: If only there were a cube recipe for breaking runes into lesser ones... you would be fabulously rich. But Zod is still amazing, in itself, and if you can find the right use for it very valuable.

 

[Finalnoob]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Great guide.. got me hooked and making me want to build one of these babies:smug:

One question though:.. the guide didn't elaborate much on gloves aside from bow/java skills.. To those with experience with this build.. What would you benefit more from if you want to run purely WSK; bow or java skills? I've been gambling and running Anya obsessively in the last few days to prep for my amazon and so far have found

3+bow/20ias
3+bow/3ML
3+java/14dex

Should I be satisfied with one of these or should I keep trying for a 3java/20ias one? My impression(as someone who's only read about this build, not played it) si that you'd be spending MUCH more time with a javelin in hand so the +javelin skills would be infinitely more useful but I could be wrong. Anyone have any comments on this? Thanks.

 

[baldanders]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

My impression(as someone who's only read about this build, not played it) si that you'd be spending MUCH more time with a javelin in hand so the +javelin skills would be infinitely more useful but I could be wrong. Anyone have any comments on this? Thanks.

I don't have experience with this build (though I have been thinking bout trying it) So take this with a grain of salt, but...

If you want to hit only areas where the javelins rule then go for upping javelins. But if you want a general runner, up the weaker skill. For WSK I think it is definitely going to be the latter.

NF talks about this in the guide, IIRC. At a certain point the javelin skills are strong enough. Of course you'd like them to be even stronger, if there were no trade-off. But if you have to choose I'd choose making FA stronger here, if I wanted to run WSK.

The main question is whether or not upping FA makes it more effective. I'm not sure about that. If it does you should up it. If it is not very useful to up it then you might as well up the javelin skills, and kill faster with them. This is the basic question that guides all multi-purpose DII builds, and the basic calculus is always the same.

If you want to run cows it is a different story, but if you want to run cows you shouldn't have anything in FA anyway.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

The idea behind this build is to be pretty good against everything. If you want to be a single element build, be a blizzard sorc or be a pure lightning javazon.

Lightning Fury and Charged Strike are a lot stronger than FA, that is true, but that is precisely the reason FA needs more help (read: +skills) than they do. If there's a lot of things on the screen, LF will kill them. Even at base slvl. If there's one big thing on the screen, CS will kinda kill it the same way. The problem arises when you're facing things that are immune to lightning, like gloams.

At the end of the day, there's only very few slots that offer +bow or +jav skills but not +all skills. Gloves is pretty much it. Personally I'd take the +20% IAS +3 bow gloves over the others. Together with a decent melody that's +9 FA right there.

 

[Finalnoob]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Gotcha. Thanks for the response

 

[Locohead]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

The opposite, really- high MF makes good whites less likely, just because it makes whites less likely.

While true, it's hard to justify having less MF just for whites/sockets, because the decrease isn't that large in most cases. I remember doing the math for a fairly worst-case scenario, and the whites were a little more than 10% less.

 

[wangbu]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

playing some more with this zon in WS K, I found a Mal and an Ist in the same game! 3 secs apart

 

[Finalnoob]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I've so far taken my amazon to 82 starting fairly untwinked and I'm really starting to enjoy running WSK with her. With that said, I have a few more questions with the skill/equipment builds that'd bring the maximum efficiency

1)I've maxed LF and CS with Freezing/COLD arrows as suggested by the guide. I'm fairly happy with the performance of my decoy as it is, so I'm thinking I should just pump the lightning synergies for more damage. My question: Does it really matter what I max next? Charged Strike seems fairly interesting and are regarded somewhat highly in other PVM javazon guides. Can anyone comment on its place within in this particular context?(WSK farmer)

2)I haven't had much luck finding a melody-worthy GMB or mat bow so I've been using a wizendraw for much of my time in hell. Can anyone comment on the difference between a 9+skill melody and a good wizendraw in performance? How big's the difference?

Thanks in advance!

 

[nepeta]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Cheers for the guide again Nightfish, just wanted to say Finished re-equipping my zon and she is great fun to play.

Finalnoob: 1) Depends on what you're having difficulties with. I spent a little more in lightning synergies as I like a strong CS for baal/waves. I also used only jav/spear skill charms for that reason. 2) Tested it with a -34/70ed Wizendraw on p1 hell RoF, and it does pretty well actually. Especially if I upgraded it twice there was little difference with the Melody. If one were to socket it with some kind of damage jewel it might even be considered an equal. See spoiler tag for readouts. 2.1) Melody only gets +6 to bow skills total.

My final setup for reference: L91 Gear: shako/3mpk/30pres jewel, skin/um, razortail, ravenfrost, rare with ml, mpk, mf, min, mdr, mara25, 2/20jav gloves /lr, wts, titans+hhg/res+ias jewels, +3 matron bow melody, gheeds, 6jav skillers, mana/res/mf scs, merc: kelpie/ga/kira. Skills: 20 LF, CS, FA, FrA, 1 IS, SM, DE, CS, PE, PI, rest in light synergies. Using it to run p1 rof and wsk which is very easy and relaxing

Spoiler

Wizendraw
Crusader Bow
Two Hand Damage: 25 - 107
Durability: 42 of 44
Required Level: 69
Required Strength: 97
Required Dexterity: 121
Fingerprint: 0xc504a132
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Increased Attack Speed
Fires Magic Arrows
70% Enhanced Damage
+82 to Attack Rating
-34% to Enemy Cold Resistance
+15 to Energy
+30 to Mana
Cold Resist +26%
Required Level +12

Melody
Matriarchal Bow
ShaelKoNef
Two Hand Damage: 30 - 70
Durability: 46 of 48
Required Level: 39
Required Strength: 87
Required Dexterity: 187
Fingerprint: 0x53c70714
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+3 to Bow and Crossbow Skills (Amazon Only)
+3 to Bow and Crossbow Skills (Amazon Only)
+20% Increased Attack Speed
50% Enhanced Damage
+300% Damage to Undead
+3 to Critical Strike (Amazon Only)
+3 to Dodge (Amazon Only)
+3 to Slow Missiles (Amazon Only)
Knockback
+10 to Dexterity 3 Sockets (3 used)
Socketed: Shael Rune
Socketed: Ko Rune
Socketed: Nef Rune

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Glad to hear that, nepeta. I've always rather liked the build as well. One thing I kinda disagree with is upgrading the wizendraw. The physical part of FA is nearly as unimportant as the physical damage on a sorc staff. Not quite, but nearly. If you'd socked anything into it, a 5/5 cold jewel would be thing to go with, probably.

But this is from someone who uses pots and/or insight for mana. YMMV. (Then again, I cannot see wizendraws physical damage maintain FA. I can't even do that with a windforce. Especially in the WS K where half the things I need FA against are unleechable.

 

[nepeta]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Oh, the mana required to keep FA going couldn't be leeched even with a ranged grief ^^ I just upgraded the wizendraw in order to see if it would help, and it did a little, for on p1 the monsters are not very strong.

I found it hard to maintain resistances under the pressure of mana leech or mpk, in the end I ended up with 3 ml and 4 mpk, which is adequate for LF, but neither of which do very much for FA. I settled for some mana charms and playing on p1, the main consideration being having more fun from playing a fa/light zon on p1 than a carpet bombing character on p8. On p1 I manage not to run out of potions, most of the time

 

[Takth]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I am having fun with this build, my equipment is carp but it doesnt seem to matter much. At first I didn't understand the reason for not taking Valkyrie but (DUR!) the dodge skills are pre-reqs. And as I get into Act 5 NM I can see the point of that, standing around dodging and evading is not as practical as just mowing down everything in site.

Not being used to melee characters I had a hard time with Diablo until I realized "Hey dummy. stop running around and just tank the big lug". He went down pretty quick after that

 

[zabu]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Hi nightfish, awesome guide.

I have a few questions. Basically I am in search of a good untwinked SP character and found yours..


1. Why are fishyzons well-known for being good at clearing WSK? Simple question but would love to know why.

2. How good is she, untwinked? I will have to level her all the way from lvl 1 normal to hell act 5, can she do it?

3. Also, how good is she at running other lvl85 areas? Such as pits and Chaos Sanc? And of course, what to do vs LI/CI? Jab?

4. This may not be a a proper question, but is this fishyzon a good character choice for, say, an untwinked character?

I guess that is all, this looks promising, I shall consider and tomorrow I may start one

Thanks Night!

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

1) I advertised her as such because the WS K has a lot of different (random) monsters and at the time of writing there were still a lot of people that considered the WS K too hard to run. This build is good at it because she can handle anything the game throws at her, quickly and safely. And she can wear a good amount of MF while doing so without cramping her kill speed. If you've got a plan for killing hordes of average monsters (FA, LF) as well as taking down bosses quickly (charged strike) and are able to handle immunities (lightning / cold) you'll be good at anything, including the ws k.

2) There isn't much that *cannot* do it. With respecs she'll be even easier to level untwinked because you can pump skills from lvl 1. But she's no Fishymancer.

3) If something can make it in the WS K, it can make it anywhere. Someone sang a song about that once, I think. Or was that New York? Personally I never saw a good reason to run the chaos sanctuary, though. But she can do it. For the rare LI / CI critter there's always the merc.

4) Kinda like 2), no? Personally, I'd rank her above average, but you gotta keep in mind that average for me may mean something radically different from average for other people (Jiasonz, for example :3 ) . I haven't found anything that outperforms my necromancer untwinked, and I dont think I ever will.

 

[zabu]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Thank you fishy.

Alright! Perhaps I should make a fishyzon now...

1. Just a few more if you dont mind. People seem to say not to use valkyrie, why? Is decoy strong enough as a tank? And slow missile, do you use that skill?

EDIT: Oh, just found out. You....advise not to get D/A/E ? Is it really not needed? I mean, yeah, thousands of flayers shooting at you will put you into D/A/E animation and you basically cant do anything, but....should I really skip D/A/E? Feels weird lol first time using a zon without dodging skills. I should be better off putting spare points to decoy, yes?

2. I am lucky, I just checked that I have a Mosers. Is this good shield for fishyzon? What should I socket it with, 2 P diamonds for resists?

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

The D/A/E is pretty much covered in the guide. It's not part of the build which means it's nothing I would spend points on. In the spare points section I explain why I wouldn't drop points in it even if they were spare. It's not as bad on this build as on, say, strafe, but it's still pretty horrible. And totally unnecessary. Overall it does more harm than good.

Decoy: No tank is needed at all. There are times when casting decoy can be useful but honestly, even in HC, i almost never used it. The merc was more than enough.

Moser's is a neat shield. I think I used it a lot. Upgraded, too, because that increases chance to block by a fair bit which frees up points to dump into vit. On my fishyzon i dont use shields for resists because half them time I'm not using a shield, especially when i need resists the most (gloams). You should try to be at 75% LR without the shield.

 

[korci]

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Thanks for the great guide Nightfish, as well as to all who have contributed to it with good advice!

She really rocks! She'd just killed Ancients on Hell /p3 by mistake... It was the most epic battle I had in a while so I want to share for this build greatness can be seen!

I've read from people here that ancients are a tad difficult, so I wanted to reach the start of the next level (82) before I challenge the ancients, so switched to /p3 to gain exp more quickly. She (WSKnyuszko) was done at 81 (max CS, LF, FA, CA, 1 to pierce, decoy + prerequisites, with all quests), so she was ready to reach the "WS K" (tm Nightfish).
I've equipped her with her thunderstroke, put 8 full rejuvs in her belt and pushed the altar.

Round 1:
The first fight was really quick. 20 sec after the start my merc horribly died when she killed Korlic (cold enchanted) and since I've panicked pushed the wrong quick key and opened a portal as I wanted to cast a decoy. First I didn't even realize what had happened. Took me about 2-3 sec to realize my mistake and stop running around... OK, no problem, go to town, resurrect Jemali, restock full rejuvs, remove TP from hotkeys, rethink what happened, push the altar again.

Round 2:
Korlic spawned fire immune, Talic with fire and cold immunity, Madawc with fire and lightning stone skin. Well, she likes difficult but doable...
A quick decoy to distract Talic, Jemali engaged Madawc and WSKnyuszko started CS-ing Korlic. With one eye on Jemali's health pool, one eye on Madawc and one eye on her health pool(wait, that can't be mathematically right... ), Korlic went down quickly.
I was surprised to find the decoy still alive despite the numerous WhirlWinds it got from Talic. Before it poofed I even had time to reach Talic and start CS-ing him as well. Merc was still fighting Madawc. Brave man I have to give him that. By that time my healing potions were gone as well as 5 from my full rejuvs and 2 super mana potions. I've started to worry a bit and I could clearly see the panicking expression on Jemali's face. Madawc wasn't even sweaty. She switched to her Wizendraw and started spamming arrows like there is no tomorrow (and for a while it seemed so). The remaining 3 full rejuvs and 1 mana pots went bye-bye and Madawc was still around 45% , Jemali at 60%, WSKnyuszko at 75%. And then it happened... Jemali died again. Few sec later WSKnyuszko was around 18% with no mana pots, no Meditation aura, Madawc still around 30% and very pissed for being made to a hedgehog...
WSKnyuszko was running for her life. Again. At every 22 mana she shot one FA arrow, then turned around and started running like mad in zigzag keeping as low as she could and praying to all deities both of us could recall on the spot. She must have been very lucky (well, she will be a WSK mf runner so luck is a must in her job description), for none of Madawc's axes hit her in the back. The next 5 minutes felt like ages. Shoot (hit), run, shoot(hit), run, shoot(miss - darn!), run and so on until Madawc finally died, and she was granted passage to her workplace knowing the next workday will be a little bit easier.

It was then when I realized the settings were left on /p3... She killed ancients on /p3 without Lifetap, CB, Decrep with only the tools Nightfish suggested for everyday usage. I think she'll fulfill her role.

Her equipment were as follows (all self found):
Helm: Shako (15ias/14@)
Amu: rare with +1 Ama, +19 str, 14@, 29 light res, life regen +4
Armor: Skullder's Ire 190ed (shael)
Ring1: BKWB 3
Ring2: rare with +6@, 90 mana
Belt: Razortail
Boots: War Traveller 47
Gloves: rare with +2 Java , 20 ias, 15 str
Wep: Titan's (upped for jab) 200ed/5ll, Thunderstoke 4/195ed
Shield: Stormshield (-15 req, +4 str, +9 dex)
Switch: Wizendraw -35 (shael)

In stash: Gheed 31, res charms, 1 Bow skiller (12 fhr), cube, TP thome, 4x2 empty, thunderstroke in cube

res in hell: 65,69,83,43 (bow)

She might be given Mara's, 1 SoJ, and a +3java/20 gloves when I find them, and test Melody for myself if a 3 sock Matriarchal bow drops.

Merc eq:
Insight great poleaxe - 12 meditation, upped shaftstop (11@, +13max), Tal's helm. At 83 he'll get Andy(ral) and an eth CV insight