fools weapon and dualwielding
- Thread starter morotsjos
- Start date
Spankeh
New member
Dude! Its 100% certain because there is two att rating figures (with frenzy), and each weapon has its own value. Equiping fools mod weapon will skyrocket just one of the values, while the other weapons att rating stays the same.
Beast's fanta aura, (damage, speed, att rating) applies to both weapons.
Beast's fanta aura, (damage, speed, att rating) applies to both weapons.
@morotsjos
If you don't believe us, test it yourself. Here's one way:
Equip yourself with CB. Go WW a hell monster (high def) with 2 equipped plain weapons. Switch one out for Fools. Then Switch both out for Fools.
If the Fools applies to both weapons, the monster should lose hp at least 3x faster than with only 1 Fools since the Fools should double up if you are correct.
Another way is to use fire or lightning charms and go WW a cold immune.
If you don't believe us, test it yourself. Here's one way:
Equip yourself with CB. Go WW a hell monster (high def) with 2 equipped plain weapons. Switch one out for Fools. Then Switch both out for Fools.
If the Fools applies to both weapons, the monster should lose hp at least 3x faster than with only 1 Fools since the Fools should double up if you are correct.
Another way is to use fire or lightning charms and go WW a cold immune.
Lyrs said:
That's not really a reliable testing method since chance to hit doesn't scale linearly with AR. I don't think you'll notice a very big difference between 10k AR (no Fool's weapons), 17k-18k AR (one Fool's weapon), and 25k AR (dual stacking Fool's weapons) on monsters.
IMO a better way to do it is to pair a high AR, low damage weapon like a Fool's War Axe with a plain high damage weapon like a Grief zerker. Drop all other sources of AR from your barb (charms, ravens, angelics, etc.) and go WW some high HP, high defense monsters. If the Fool's AR applies to both weapons, the monsters will take a lot of damage from the Grief hits. If the AR only applies to the weapon that the Fool's mod is on, then you should still be able to see and hear hits from one weapon except that you'll be doing little to no damage since the Grief isn't hitting. I'm almost completely positive that +AR on one weapon doesn't transfer over to the other, but it couldn't hurt to test.
Well I tested that with a hawkeye(ar on lvl) greatsword from larzuk...mythical happened to be on ladder where my ww char is not:smiley:
The ar does in fact increase in the ww ar counter when the hawkeye sword is equipped.There is only one reading for ww not one for each sword.
So dual weilding the ar would average out per hit.Im looking for a link that gives some more info.From that test that seems how it works.
The ar does in fact increase in the ww ar counter when the hawkeye sword is equipped.There is only one reading for ww not one for each sword.
So dual weilding the ar would average out per hit.Im looking for a link that gives some more info.From that test that seems how it works.
see i don't know why ppl keep bringing up frenzy cuz that and ww are 2 different attack and they function differently and ar wise only one ar is shown and IIRC the chance to hit is aveaged out between the 2 weaps, hence why u only get one ar, cuz the nxt question is, if the ar did not stack, why on hell would a wwsin use a fools mod?
Err...what evidence is there to support the AR being averaged between the two weapons? WW-sins would use Fool's weapons even if the AR didn't average out or stack because it's still better to have 1 high AR weapon and 1 low AR weapon rather than 2 low AR weapons.
The single AR value displayed for WW only accounts for the AR on the main-hand weapon; it's not an average of anything. If you put a Fool's weapon on main-hand and a Grief/Chaos on off-hand, you'll see a big AR number. If you put the Fool's on off-hand and the Grief/Chaos on main-hand, the AR will be much smaller since the Fool's AR isn't factored into the display. If you put on two Fool's weapons, the AR will be the same as with one Fool's on main.
Of course, the LCS isn't necessarily indicative of how the game mechanics actually work. The fact that it only shows one AR value doesn't prove anything.
The single AR value displayed for WW only accounts for the AR on the main-hand weapon; it's not an average of anything. If you put a Fool's weapon on main-hand and a Grief/Chaos on off-hand, you'll see a big AR number. If you put the Fool's on off-hand and the Grief/Chaos on main-hand, the AR will be much smaller since the Fool's AR isn't factored into the display. If you put on two Fool's weapons, the AR will be the same as with one Fool's on main.
Of course, the LCS isn't necessarily indicative of how the game mechanics actually work. The fact that it only shows one AR value doesn't prove anything.
that is true also as when u do switch the weaps arround i.e fools on secondary, the primary weap shows the ar in the LCS so.. atm i can't think of a test that can clearly tell the difference, i tried the psn cold test but this only shows that primary weap, i.e the fools hits more which we allready know in WW sequence. Hitting a monster does not exactly prove much so we need to test i.e player vs player or something.
WhiteAlien
Banned
morotsjos said:
I'm testing this out.
This question have bothered me very long time, since I have started to play with wwsin. So far no one could give me satisfied answer so I have done some tests myself.
WhiteAlien
Banned
I've done some tests with ww. I did over 800 ww's, I think this should be enough objective.
Test environment: Open Battle Net.
Test objects: ww barb and high defense pala.
Pala setup was simple: edited high defense armor and defiance aura, gives total defense of 30179, no shield of course to effectively measure hits.
Barb setup is more complicated:
1. First setup, Fool's Axe left hand, normal Axe right hand, screen ww AR 20197
2. Second setup, Normal Axe left hand, Fool's Axe right hand, screen ww AR 1093
3. Third setup, 2 Normal Axe's, screen ww AR 1093
4. Forth setup, 2 Fool's Axe's, screen ww AR 20197
All tests were done in Hell difficulty, Act1, Open B.Net. I did 200 ww over pala for each setup and here are the results:
Setup.....|Test hit chance %|Theoretical H.C. %|
First.......|.........38............|.........34.............|
Second...|.........32............|.........34.............|
Third......|.........16............|..........5..............|
Forth......|.........73............|.........34.............|
To calculate theoretical chance to hit I used this formula:
= 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
Conclusion:
Looking at test results, 1st and 2nd, it seems that Axes swapping from left hand to right hand does not make any difference in average chance to hit target. That makes me think that it is Fool's axe that does successful hit most of the time. Also look at forth test with dual Fool's Axes. Screen shows ~20k AR, but chance to hit had risen drastically from 36% to 73%. Even if you add together 2 fool's axes AR you get ~40k AR and theoretical CtH 52%, here it's 73%. To get so high chance to hit AR for each axe must be calculated individually.
So in my opinion test shows that AR for each hand is calculated separately with ww skill and other hand (off-hand, primary, whatever) does not benefit from Fool's mod!
3rd test did not surprise me - 2 normal axes with only 1k AR, theoretical CTH = 5%, real = 16%, if I could do more ww's probably % could drop even less.
If I'm somewhere wrong you can correct me. Also, can someone post here what mods works with offhand axe.
WhiteAlien :wink:
Test environment: Open Battle Net.
Test objects: ww barb and high defense pala.
Pala setup was simple: edited high defense armor and defiance aura, gives total defense of 30179, no shield of course to effectively measure hits.
Barb setup is more complicated:
1. First setup, Fool's Axe left hand, normal Axe right hand, screen ww AR 20197
2. Second setup, Normal Axe left hand, Fool's Axe right hand, screen ww AR 1093
3. Third setup, 2 Normal Axe's, screen ww AR 1093
4. Forth setup, 2 Fool's Axe's, screen ww AR 20197
All tests were done in Hell difficulty, Act1, Open B.Net. I did 200 ww over pala for each setup and here are the results:
Setup.....|Test hit chance %|Theoretical H.C. %|
First.......|.........38............|.........34.............|
Second...|.........32............|.........34.............|
Third......|.........16............|..........5..............|
Forth......|.........73............|.........34.............|
To calculate theoretical chance to hit I used this formula:
= 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
Conclusion:
Looking at test results, 1st and 2nd, it seems that Axes swapping from left hand to right hand does not make any difference in average chance to hit target. That makes me think that it is Fool's axe that does successful hit most of the time. Also look at forth test with dual Fool's Axes. Screen shows ~20k AR, but chance to hit had risen drastically from 36% to 73%. Even if you add together 2 fool's axes AR you get ~40k AR and theoretical CtH 52%, here it's 73%. To get so high chance to hit AR for each axe must be calculated individually.
So in my opinion test shows that AR for each hand is calculated separately with ww skill and other hand (off-hand, primary, whatever) does not benefit from Fool's mod!
3rd test did not surprise me - 2 normal axes with only 1k AR, theoretical CTH = 5%, real = 16%, if I could do more ww's probably % could drop even less.
If I'm somewhere wrong you can correct me. Also, can someone post here what mods works with offhand axe.
WhiteAlien :wink: