Dual Dream Melee sorc

[PV_]

Dual Dream Melee sorc

Well, I was wondering whether this would or not be viable. I've always wanted to try a melee sorc, and realized this might be my opportunity. I've heard that if you have two DREAMS (helm and shield) the auras stack, so you'd have a level 30 Holy Shock, which gets boosted by Lightning Mastery, and twice if you attack wth it (or is it just for enchant?), then you'd have a very high lightning AND fire damage, making you able to kill fire immunes and even have some shot at PVP since you'd be having 1 hit kills.

Dream 3 Socket Helms/Shields Io + Jah + Pul
10% Chance To Cast Level 15 Confuse When Struck
Level 15 Holy Shock Aura When Equipped
+20-30% Faster Hit Recovery (varies)
+30% Enhanced Defense
+150-220 Defense (varies)
+10 To Vitality
Increase Maximum Life 5%
+0.625-61.875 To Mana (Based On Character Level)
All Resistances +5-20 (varies)
15-25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (varies)


If possible, what would be the best setup? Would it be better to wear + fire stuff to boost enchant, + lightning stuff to boost lightning mastery (and the pulse + dmg) or use + sorc stuff to boost both?? That is what I was thinking, both for PVM and for PVP (camon, it must be very fun to melee someone to death with a sorc).

20 Lightning Mastery
1 Teleport
20 Enchant
20 Fire Mastery
1 Hydra (hydra gets sinergies from Warmth if I am not mistaken, so with + skill itens this will be able to get some considerable damage (yeah, I know it is low), but the main purpose would be to make them move and to deal damage to them while you are meleeing/teleporting. If you have hydras, they can't stop to shot you, and that makes you able to teleport to wherever you want.
1 Cold Armor
Rest in warmth

Itens: (keep in mind I'm not RICH so after getting 2 dreams I'll be a bit poor :\)

Dream Helm

Dream Shield (what would be the best shield for this?)
weapon: Maybe a crescent moon?? would a phase blade be the best for that? it must bne a fast weapon to make use of holy shock.

armor: if I can't afford enigma or coh, what should I go for? ormus? doesn't seem all that useful since the %dmg just stacks with lightning mastery...

ammy: tals?

Rings: raven and .. ? soj maybe, so you can keep teleing? and + skills = + dmg so...

gloves: magefist

boots: ?

belt: arachnid?

This would be able to get me a lvl 25 lightning mastery/26 enchant if I use a +1 armor, which is not NEARLY enough. Say I get +5 lightning charms (lets be realistic), it will be lvl 30/26. without a shield/helm/weapon, i just don't see places for + skills! Can you guys help me? is it viable? is it better than normal enchantress? what should I use? should I go for max block or vit?

 

[Sartok]

You seem behind... check the forum and see all the posts about it. All of your questions should be answered there. It also saves me writing alot more... phew! :thumbsup:




:xfrosty:

 

[MarkN]

Of course its viable! after 2 Dreams you will do a ton of Holy shock damage.
The trick is to get LM as high as possible since LM is applied twice when you melee.

 

[rockboy888]

about the weapon..cresent moon sounds great..but I was considering passion phase blade ? since I think the zeal action looks cool...but the monster flee is kinda ***

 

[Sartok]

Passion Phase would be the best weapon for this, CM would be nice, but much to slow without zeal.

 

[buster]

A Grief Phase Blade works great with the dual Dream set up. That way you can be hitting quickly (add another 10-20% IAS to hit 10 fpa) and doing some nice physical damage along with the two types of elemental damage. The higher physical damage also allows your leech to work better. Other gear that works well to complete the set up are CoH, Mara's, Arachnid, Dracul's, Raven Frost, BK Ring, and Waterwalks.

 

[Sartok]

Wouldn't passion still work faster though? The physical dmg from Grief is very nice... but it will be totally overshadowed by the big Lightning dmg, plus you will get less hits in in the same amount of time. I think that speed>damage.

 

[PV_]

Could someone please either a) do the math or b) tell me where I can find information for the followng stuff (like a calculator or something):

Lvl 30 Holy Shock Lvl 32 Lightning Mastery (twice if it applies to melee attacks)
Lvl 35 Enchant and Lvl 29 FM with lvl 20 warmth

Lvl 13 Thunderstorm with Lvl 32 Mastery
Lvl 7 Hydra with lvl 26 FM

I'd also like to know the IAS breakpoints for zeal/GA/normal attack with sorceress. Can someone help me?

 

[melianor]

Could someone please either a) do the math or b) tell me where I can find information for the followng stuff (like a calculator or something):

Lvl 30 Holy Shock Lvl 32 Lightning Mastery (twice if it applies to melee attacks)
Lvl 35 Enchant and Lvl 29 FM with lvl 20 warmth

Lvl 13 Thunderstorm with Lvl 32 Mastery
Lvl 7 Hydra with lvl 26 FM

I'd also like to know the IAS breakpoints for zeal/GA/normal attack with sorceress. Can someone help me?

Forget the Thunderstorm and Hydra damage, even with that high masteries.

damage formula works like this. WIll only give you the elemental damage though and not whatever physical damage you do:

full damage = base damage * (1+synergies%) * (1+masteries%) * (1-(monster%-negative resistances%))

If you just want the raw damage leave the alst part out of the formula.

Under masteries% are also any sources added that give +xx% fire/cold/lightning damage.

 

[PV_]

Yes, but where can I check the dmg of a lvl 30 holy shock or the added% of a lvl X lightning/fire mastery, etc ?

 

[BodomSaint]

Yes, but where can I check the dmg of a lvl 30 holy shock or the added% of a lvl X lightning/fire mastery, etc ?

clacs? you want calcs?

here you go:

Skill Calc: http://diablo2.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?lang=en

Speed Calc : http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

Damage Calc: http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/dmgcalc/dmgcalc.php?patch=110&lang=eng

another note: I was fooling around with making a new Enchantress (besides my beloved Kingslayeress) and i think AR would be a problem and since ITD does not work on Bosses but Eth Runes do why not use a 6 OS Phase Balde with EthEthEthEthShaelShael? with this weapon you'll need 8% more IAS for max speed and you'll have -100% enemy Defense and it's quite cheap.

 

[melianor]

clacs? you want calcs?

here you go:

Skill Calc: http://diablo2.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?lang=en

Speed Calc : http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

Damage Calc: http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/dmgcalc/dmgcalc.php?patch=110&lang=eng

another note: I was fooling around with making a new Enchantress (besides my beloved Kingslayeress) and i think AR would be a problem and since ITD does not work on Bosses but Eth Runes do why not use a 6 OS Phase Balde with EthEthEthEthShaelShael? with this weapon you'll need 8% more IAS for max speed and you'll have -100% enemy Defense and it's quite cheap.

Diablo2 ingame calculators are wrogn with base values....

For holy shock or just lightning damage combined with masteries there is no calculator ai know of. Those all use the skills from the 3 sorceress trees. So you will have to use the formula above that i gave to figure this out for yourself. By taking the base lightning damage you do (from all sources, Holy Shock, scs,....) and calculate it with the masteries you will have.

 

[BodomSaint]

Diablo2 ingame calculators are wrogn with base values....

For holy shock or just lightning damage combined with masteries there is no calculator ai know of. Those all use the skills from the 3 sorceress trees. So you will have to use the formula above that i gave to figure this out for yourself. By taking the base lightning damage you do (from all sources, Holy Shock, scs,....) and calculate it with the masteries you will have.

are u sure? :uhhuh:

full damage = base damage * (1+synergies%) * (1+masteries%) * (1-(monster%-negative resistances%))

now let me get this straight...

let's assume we have a lvl 30 Holy Shock aura (two dreams), this give us 1 - 1668 Lightning Damage. Let's go on and assume we have a lvl 31 Lightning Mastery (to get a round number ). This gives us +410% ED.

so we just take the maximum damage of 1668 for our calculations.

Full damage = 1668 * (1+synergies [we do not have any synergies, do we?]) * (1 + 820% [mastery x2 due to meleeing]) [I won't calculate the -res in]

this gives us:

1668 * 9,2 = 15345,6 so far so goodm, so what?

check this: http://img94.exs.cx/img94/4084/calc2rn.jpg

 

[PV_]

another guy posted 62K max with lvl 39 mastery... how was that possible?

 

[IceFires]

Full damage = 1668 * (1+synergies [we do not have any synergies, do we?]) * (1 + 820% [mastery x2 due to meleeing]) [I won't calculate the -res in]

this gives us:

1668 * 9,2 = 15345,6 so far so goodm, so what?

Lightning mastery bonus works once on the skill then once more when damage is dealt (if you melee).

So it should look more like this.

skill damage = 1668 * 1 * 5.1 = 8,506.8
Total lightning dmg (melee) = 8506.8 * 5.1 = 43,384.68

In essence, you multiply it by x^2 not 2x.

 

[melianor]

Lightning mastery bonus works once on the skill then once more when damage is dealt (if you melee).

So it should look more like this.

skill damage = 1668 * 1 * 5.1 = 8,506.8
Total lightning dmg (melee) = 8506.8 * 5.1 = 43,384.68

In essence, you multiply it by x^2 not 2x.

Yup.... Like with Fire Mastery it gets applied 2 times!

are u sure?

Well i did see some inconsistencies on base damage in the lightning tree and some others :/

 

[Uzziah]

now let me get this straight...

let's assume we have a lvl 30 Holy Shock aura (two dreams), this give us 1 - 1668 Lightning Damage. Let's go on and assume we have a lvl 31 Lightning Mastery (to get a round number ). This gives us +410% ED.

so we just take the maximum damage of 1668 for our calculations.

Full damage = 1668 * (1+synergies [we do not have any synergies, do we?]) * (1 + 820% [mastery x2 due to meleeing]) [I won't calculate the -res in]

this gives us:

1668 * 9,2 = 15345,6 so far so goodm, so what?

You have to break it out into mastery for skill then mastery for the attack otherwise your answer will be off. It is basically a squared mastery but the percents are difficult to deal with and should be multiplied seperately to avoid mistakes.

this formula was a bit confusing in melianor post

full damage = base damage * (1+synergies%) * (1+masteries%) * (1-(monster%-negative resistances%))

It works if you use a positive negative resistance.

another way to say it is:

full damage = base damage * (1+synergies%) * (1+masteries%) * (1-monster%+(negative resistance%[leave as negative])

The cross skills equations do not have a calculator yet, I am sure adventually they will get a calculator that works for those values. with skills other than sorc skills on a sorc will need to be worked out by hand for the time being to add in the masteries. Masteries are multiplied last so if the skill has synergies and you are using the charge bug you can work the skill out then multiply the mastery.

The LCS is almost never correct so other methods are often needed to get the right amounts of damage the skill give. I personally like chippydips calculator better than the one you linked to but remember every calculator has problems with synergies and masteries being added in.

Edit: your 410% melee lightning mastery:

1-1668
with 410% lightning mastery adds this to attack

1*(1+4.1) = 5.1
1668*(1+4.1) = 8506.8

now since your using it on a melee attack you get an additional mastery added on.

5.1*(1+4.1) = 26.01
8506.8*(1+4.1) = 43384.68

remember this:

(1+4.1^2) does not equal (1+4.1)^2

or

(1+4.1*2) does not equal (1+4.1)^2

Because they are multiplied twice you have to square the values not multiply by 2, because the value is enhanced damage you have to add the 1 both times.

 

[Weltkriegpally]

ok, guys. I was reading this thread thru...very informative. I posted a similar thread earlier, but got no answer. I reallize that lightning/fire mastery apply twice, but what about mastery effects? Say, I have a level 35 foh and level 20 holy shock and add in 15 percent from griffons. does it work the same as lightning mastery or does it add in differently?

zb:: 3840*(1+15/100)=4416 or 3840*(1.15)^2=5078.4

given that many pallies with similar setups have 5k+ foh damage fairly easily, then I am inclined to believe that the second setup is correct. However, I am not sure. If one of you would so kindly as to point out which is correct, I would be very grateful.

--welt

 

[Liessa Wyrmbane]

ok, guys. I was reading this thread thru...very informative. I posted a similar thread earlier, but got no answer. I reallize that lightning/fire mastery apply twice, but what about mastery effects? Say, I have a level 35 foh and level 20 holy shock and add in 15 percent from griffons. does it work the same as lightning mastery or does it add in differently?

zb:: 3840*(1+15/100)=4416 or 3840*(1.15)^2=5078.4

given that many pallies with similar setups have 5k+ foh damage fairly easily, then I am inclined to believe that the second setup is correct. However, I am not sure. If one of you would so kindly as to point out which is correct, I would be very grateful.

--welt

First scenario is the correct one.

"+15% to Lightning Skill Damage" from Griffon works exactly like sorc's Lightning Mastery skill. It doesn't get squared because there is no double application because FoH is not melee.

 

[Weltkriegpally]

First scenario is the correct one.

"+15% to Lightning Skill Damage" from Griffon works exactly like sorc's Lightning Mastery skill. It doesn't get squared because there is no double application because FoH is not melee.

ah. I see, then. The dual mastery effect only applies if the sorc is using a melee type effect. Thank you very much, that clears much up.

--welt