Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

[NeoRequiem]

Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Obviously, physical dmg aspect of javelin matters for skills like jab.

However, for light fury and other "elemental" attacks, does the physical damage on javelin matter?

For example, would a guy using 150% non-eth titans do significantly less dmg than a guy using 200% eth titans?

 

[KremBanan]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

For the lightning damage from LF/CS, the ed doesnt matter at all.

 

[syndrohm]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

If you are talking lightning damage then it doesnt matter. Only difference I find it makes on a lf Javazon is for mana leech since leech only calculates using physical damage.

 

[otap]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

if ed does not matter, then why are ethereal titans so popular and expensive?

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Sometimes the extra damage is needed, but most of the time people are just perfectionists.

 

[zzzackkk]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Perfectionist and most are just stupid. Most people you find with eth titans only have them because they came to some forum or read some guide that said to get eth titans.

 

[drake]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

... physical damage goes hand in hand with leech, which is important for java (unless you use phoenix). it also helps a bit with LIs (infinity or not).

eth/up'd titans do a boatload more physical damage than standard ones, so they're worth it.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Eth./Upp'd Titan's only do a boatload more damage then then standard ones if you start using Jab (very handy against LIs). If you're not Jabbing and don't have any alternate sources of enhancing physical damage, the difference in physical damage is like ~80 points of damage in Hell on average. In PvP, this damage is er, not noticeable.

The only bonuses of using Eth. > Non-Eth. on a pure LF 'Zon is a stronger Jab for LIs (you'll get maybe a ~150 damage advantage with an Jab at Slvl 30+), a very slight improvement in leech when you LF/CS, and -10/-10 STR/DEX = +20 VIT.

 

[drake]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

ok, so a regular ceremonial jav has 36 average base damage. add in the 200% ed and the "adds 25-50 dmg" from titans, and you get 146 damage. and eth matriarchal javelin (up'd) has 76 base damage (50.5 + 50.5/2), so 266 damage in the end.

266/146 = 82% more leech, more than a "very slight improvement" to me.

with 150% ed:
228/128 = 78%

if you upgrade non-eth 200%ed titans:
189/146 = 29%

if you upgrade eth 200%ed titans:
266/200 = 33%

eth vs non-eth, both non up'd (200%)
200/146: 37%

also, pierce enables you to hit more than one monster per throw/mana depletion...

the dex requirement of upgrading sucks to some people, but imo the added life leech and a potentially higher block easily compensates for that. for max-block javas, the higher dex req is moot.

now damage wise (non up'd non eth vs eth up'd @ 200%ed), add in 230% ed from a might merc with an andys (why not, i've had holy freeze for a while and i think its useless)

146*3.3 = 475
266*3.3 = 879

now add the high chance a zon has to get a critical strike (61% with 1 point invested and +12 skills)

475*1.61 = 765
879*1.61 = 1415

with 35% deadly strike from highlord's wrath (no its not 61 + 35)

475*1.75 = 831
879*1.75 = 1538 (85% more, even better than 82%...)

thats roughly 700 more damage, 350 with 50% dmr (some monsters will have less than that...). it doesnt seem like much but against LIs its not insignificant. after conviction with no griffon they will still have what, 85% res? a good griffonless java will do about 3500 LF dmg/bolt.

3500*0.15 = 525 dmg
525+350/525 = 66% more dmg

now i know its not really 66% because LF bolts fly around a lot. its even less with a griffon because of the -% res. its hard to estimate what the added physical damage really does, and it depends a lot on the situation.

but typically for an infinity java its not rare that every non-LI will get vaporized with one throw, while a few LIs will still be there. in that context there isnt that much bolts flying around. granted, you're probably better off using CS there anyway .

so whats the tradeoff anyway, a little bit of life? who cares! i think life is overrated in pvm. imo mana and LIs are a bigger problem than 200 or so life for a java. and if you're using phoenix... imo you're much better off using a 20/20 and leeching...

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Don't forget monster properties either... in hell, they have an addtional ~33% physical damage reduction, which further lowers the difference. Also... not all monsters in hell have 100% drain effectiveness, which further closes the gap. And you're considering perfect situations (as was I)... with a lower %ED roll or less perfect situations, the gap closes even further.

[edit] Also, I'm confused by a lot of your calculations. Not quite sure where you're getting certain numbers from.

I do agree with you - you'll definately get a better leech with Titan's, but is it really gamebreaking enough that you'll see the bulb filling much faster/experience an sudden increase in speed of clearing monsters? In my experience, not really... if the 'Zon isn't the love of your life and you have no intentions of making her "perfect", there really is no reason to overpay for Eth. Titan's.

But of course, this is just my opinion. Some people swear by their Eth. Titan's, and I respect that. :thumbup:

 

[Neuuubeh]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Perfectionist and most are just stupid. Most people you find with eth titans only have them because they came to some forum or read some guide that said to get eth titans.

Why? Ethereal do more damage. Ethereal have lower requirements. Ethereal look better to most people (yes, me included, I like the eth look).
So, why?

What do I lose by using ethereal Titans really? What would I gain if I used noneth ones? One list is empty really - guess which

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

My previous calculations were done in my head and I assumed upp'd vs upp'd, 50% DR, no *2, which wasn't very realistic... so I re-did the calculations.

If any calculation is wrong, feel free to correct me, or if any situation seems unrealistic, or other aspects to be considered, go ahead and throw them in.

---

Assumptions:
i. Ethereal Titan’s Revenge (ETR) is upgraded. Plain Titan’s Revenge (PTR) is not.
ii. In all scenarios, the Amazon has 100 strength/150 dexterity.
iii. 25% physical damage reduction on monsters.

Therefore:
Perfect ETR: Throw: 181-347 (264 avg)
Perfect PTR: Throw: 79-212 (145.5 avg)
Minimal ETR: Throw: 155-297 (226 avg)
Minimal PTR: Throw: 70-185 (127.5 avg)

Statsbonus: 0.8 + 0.75 = 1.55

Statsbonus with monster %DR: 1.3

Scenario 1:
- Perfect %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Perfect %ED Titan’s Revenge
- Slvl 24 Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is positive

ETR: 264 * 5 * 2
PTR: 145.5 * 5 * 2
Difference: 1185

Scenario 2:
- Perfect %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Perfect %ED Titan’s Revenge
- No Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is positive

ETR: 264 * 2.3 * 2
PTR: 145.5 * 2.3 * 2
Difference: 545

Scenario 3:
- Perfect %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Perfect %ED Titan’s Revenge
- Slvl 24 Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is negative

ETR: 264 * 5
PTR: 145.5 * 5
Difference: 593

Scenario 4:
- Perfect %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Perfect %ED Titan’s Revenge
- No Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is negative

ETR: 264 * 2.3
PTR: 127.5 * 2.3
Difference: 314

Scenario 5:
- Minimal %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Minimal %ED Titan’s Revenge
- Slvl 24 Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is positive

ETR: 226 * 5 * 2
PTR: 127.5 * 5 * 2
Difference: 985

Scenario 6:
- Minimal %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Minimal %ED Titan’s Revenge
- No Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is positive

ETR: 226 * 2.3 * 2
PTR: 127.5 * 2.3 * 2
Difference: 453

Scenario 7:
- Minimal %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Minimal %ED Titan’s Revenge
- Slvl 24 Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is negative

ETR: 226 * 5
PTR: 127.5 * 5
Difference: 493

Scenario 8:
- Minimal %ED Ethereal Titan’s Revenge vs. Minimal %ED Titan’s Revenge
- No Might Aura from mercenary
- *2 modifier from CS/DS is negative

ETR: 226 * 2.3
PTR: 127.5 * 2.3
Difference: 226

---

If I actually did these calculations right, I have to take back my previous statement... :scratchchin: the difference is actually quite nice between an Eth/Upp'd vs NonEth/NonUpp'd (especially with a Might mercenary and a critical hit), although I expect the difference to lower significantly if comparing Eth/Upp'd vs NonEth/Upp'd. Not gamebreaking, but noticeable.

[edit] @OP: sorry for derailing, the quick answer is that physical damage is not associated with lightning damage.

 

[drake]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

Don't forget monster properties either... in hell, they have an addtional ~33% physical damage reduction, which further lowers the difference. Also... not all monsters in hell have 100% drain effectiveness, which further closes the gap. And you're considering perfect situations (as was I)... with a lower %ED roll or less perfect situations, the gap closes even further.

[edit] Also, I'm confused by a lot of your calculations. Not quite sure where you're getting certain numbers from.

I do agree with you - you'll definately get a better leech with Titan's, but is it really gamebreaking enough that you'll see the bulb filling much faster/experience an sudden increase in speed of clearing monsters? In my experience, not really... if the 'Zon isn't the love of your life and you have no intentions of making her "perfect", there really is no reason to overpay for Eth. Titan's.

But of course, this is just my opinion. Some people swear by their Eth. Titan's, and I respect that. :thumbup:

er you're right i forgot about dmr. i also forgot to add in the ed % from the titans, LOL (no more posts after i wake up!). that did anything but "close the gap even further", its not 54% more leech anymore... but 82% (i edited my post btw). 150% vs 200% ed doesnt change things much.

leech wise the dmr or drain effectiveness doesnt change anything because its a % (unlike DS). hence, the % of added leech will be the same in the end.

which numbers are you dubious about? i'm sure you and/or some other people will be wondering where the hell the total DS with highlord's came from, so here it is:

DS/100*(100-CS) + CS

finally, eth titans are expensive indeed, but nothing crazy. they're worth the price difference imo.

 

[drake]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

LOL... you made that post after i had edited mine and was in the process of answering to you. time for some cross-checking i guess

 

[drake]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

sigh, forgot about stats too. oh well, tips the balance in favor of eth/up'd anyway.

i could be wrong, but from memory i dont think u can get more than a 20 might from merc, its capped.

 

[Neuuubeh]

Re: Does damage on javelin matter for light fury / CS?

of course Ethereal do more damage. I dont think anyone can deny that - I think most people were just saying its not really worth the price.

However if you do like your amazon of course you'll get her some - my 190's were just an ist around a month ago - definately not the most expensive piece of equipment around.. I doubt they have gone up in price much..