[confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

Kris, I was trying highlight what I felt was a lack of understanding on how markets work in general, and how availability of commodities affects them (or break them). Beyond the scope of a DII forum perhaps, but I didn't start the discussion

Botting indeed has no effect on me as I am exclusively SP.

In any event, I've said as much as I want to on the matter (more than I want, TBH )

 

[Coipre]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

If people can get the stuff more easily in a legit manner, it would still be even more easy with a bot.

Yes? That was exactly what I was implying.

 

[zarniwoop]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

I'd prefer yearly resets or 9 months.

I may fire up this ladder though. I might move to Europe as its a much, much more viable trading ladder than east and west combined.

I've almost entirely lost interest in D3. I'm certain that I will play it, but I sincerely expect it to be far less deep and engaging except for the first playthrough.

 

[Sony Walkman]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

I have never traded with anyone ever
I give away everything I find (I only play sorcs and necro summoners, so I actually find a lot of stuff that is no use to me)
When I join a trade game, I just throw my stuff on the ground and leave.
If anyone runs up to me and the trade invite pops up, I just ignore it, keep throwing my stuff on the ground and leave
I don't bot, but I don't care at all if anyone else does
It doesn't devalue my stuff in the least, and if items are devalued, how is that a bad thing ?
if I were to start trading it would just mean the items I want would be cheaper

I look at the "what's your best item found today" thread and I see TONS of stuff I've never found and have never had because I won't participate in trades,
Enigma would be awesome for my necro, but I don't have to have one; I've never even seen a rune higher than Vex
Infinity ? Dream ? ha, in my dreams
Stone of Jordan ? never seen one
some of those items would be nice, but they aren't necessary to enjoy the game
I've just never understood the excitement/fun with trading; to me its the most boring part of the game, so I never do it

my original point was more that item find bots aren't annoying, but I can't even join a public game to drop my stuff on the ground without 100's of spam messages flooding the screen

spam bots affect me, they are completely annoying
item find bots don't affect me, so I don't care about them at all

You are 100 % right mate,i like your view of the things ! :thumbup: :bow:

Just make more runs and u will find some cool stuffs like high runes or unique rings like stone of jordan.

Ofc. everything about the trade is stupid.About the boters and the market places,they dont deserve to be part of tha game.

 

[Flax]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

You have any proof on that item bots devalue everything?

Are players who MF without a bot to blame for devaluing as well?

Tough, I don't believe bots devalues items, seeing as a price is determined by the demand, not the supply.

Whats really screwing up the market is players who dupe

If you dont understand basic supply/demand mechanics maybe you shouldn't use it in arguments.

In your own words please explain why someone duping HRs screws up the market while a person getting them by letting his bot run while he sleeps doesn't

 

[Flax]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

It doesn't devalue my stuff in the least, and if items are devalued, how is that a bad thing ?
if I were to start trading it would just mean the items I want would be cheaper

I've just never understood the excitement/fun with trading; to me its the most boring part of the game, so I never do it

No it just means the items you where trying to trade with would be worthless

 

[Coipre]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

In your own words please explain why someone duping HRs screws up the market while a person getting them by letting his bot run while he sleeps doesn't

Quiz!
What do you think would have the biggest impact on today's market?

A. Printing fresh money in countless amounts

or

B. Letting a robot go to work for you while you sleep

 

[Flax]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

Ask the fed, they know all about it

In a flawed economy like D2 where the only items lost are due to players leaving the game,
ofcourse there will be gear inflation have you never played a ladder ?
Why do you think ppl actually trade for occys and shakos at the start of a ladder.
When at the end of a ladder i couldn't get someone to accept an occy if i threw it after them.
Botters vastly increase the item influx in the game (well rune influx to be more precise items take too much stash space i guess)

On the other hand items that are actually consumed tend to keep their worth much better (crafting material in NL is a great example)

I do find it interesting that ppl who acquire a almost cube of hrs and a stash of ums ists mals hels etc isnt in anyway affecting the economy.

I've seen it myself as an acquaintance showed me when he had gathered just that after a few nights,
but this is totally legit as he didnt dupe the runes ?
Well atleast i know not to trade with him.

 

[Coipre]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

Ask the fed, they know all about it

I'm sorry but theres no way you're expecting me to read trough all that?

Ofcourse there will be gear inflation have you never played a ladder? Why do you think ppl actually trade for occys and shakos at the start of a ladder.

First off all, I've never said that there's no such thing a gear inflation. I don't know why you assume I have. I've also played on several ladders during my 6 years of playing, if that's even relevant.

And people trade for Occys and Shakos for the very same reason they trade anything, it's because they need them. Up to this day, 7 days prior to the reset, I still trade away Shakos and Occys. I don't know when or where you're trading if you can't get rid of them.

Botters vastly increase the item influx in the game (well rune influx to be more precise items take too much stash space i guess)

On the other hand items that are actually consumed tend to keep their worth much better (crafting material in NL is a great example)

Why would someone who's botting keep something if it's not meant for consuming in any form? I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

I've seen it myself as an acquaintance showed me when he had gathered just that after a few nights,
but this is totally legit as he didnt dupe the runes?

What? I never said that botting is legit, or duping is the only evil in Diablo 2. I'm just saying that duping is destroying the market in a much greater way than botting. You have to stop assuming things I haven't said.

 

[krischan]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

I'm just saying that duping is destroying the market in a much greater way than botting.

That depends on how you compare things. It's like the question whether mice weigh more than elephants. A mouse weighs less than an elephant, of course, but all mice together weigh more than all elephants.

Duping causes more damage than botting if duping is as widespread as botting. It isn't, however, else Jah/Ber prices would be lower by a factor of 5-10 on ladder. For some reason, duping has become much less since 1.13. Did Blizzard close any loopholes?

In effect (and that's what it depends on), duping currently has a lesser effect on the market than botting.

 

[scollin]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

I agree with Krischan here, there are so many bots out there and not that much duping. And yes botting has destroyed the economy, since most of the rich players on Bnet (not these forums) bot and therefore have no need to trade for anything. I've heard the Europe economy is still ok but USeast absolutely sucks, its impossible to trade off anything other than HRs and incredibly common but useful uniques such as Shakos and Jalals.

 

[krischan]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

I believe there are more botters and their supporters in the ETF than you think, like those who trade for others while choosing not to ask whether his buddies are botters themselves, respectively pretending not to know it. However, I stopped bothering about it. Sometimes even I buy items from dubious people. It's difficult to decide where to draw the line and things get even more difficult if I don't have enouch proof in addition. However, that doesn't mean that I'm too naive to notice the situation.

If somebody doesn't want to support botters, then he should use his brain when reading trading threads. For example, somebody with a thread with 500 items, among tham a dozen Arachnid Meshs, has certainly not found them by playing the game manually. He either uses a bot or trades what others have found and nobody knows or can can ask these other people about it. I guess most of it is bot loot.

I guess I'm a bit bitter and desillusioned about the situation.

 

[Coipre]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

Duping causes more damage than botting if duping is as widespread as botting

You know what, that's a fair point. I can't believe I actually forgot to take that into consideration even though it's pretty obvious. Now I feel a bit silly :scratchchin:

 

[scollin]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

I believe there are more botters and their supporters in the ETF than you think, like those who trade for others while choosing not to ask whether his buddies are botters themselves, respectively pretending not to know it. However, I stopped bothering about it. Sometimes even I buy items from dubious people. It's difficult to decide where to draw the line and things get even more difficult if I don't have enouch proof in addition. However, that doesn't mean that I'm too naive to notice the situation.

If somebody doesn't want to support botters, then he should use his brain when reading trading threads. For example, somebody with a thread with 500 items, among tham a dozen Arachnid Meshs, has certainly not found them by playing the game manually. He either uses a bot or trades what others have found and nobody knows or can can ask these other people about it. I guess most of it is bot loot.

I guess I'm a bit bitter and desillusioned about the situation.

I agree with this, I guess I just hope that there are some honourable traders out there

The worst is when you see threads and people have like 5 unidentified Herald Of Zakarum's... this just screams botting to me.

 

[Flax]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

First off all, I've never said that there's no such thing a gear inflation. I don't know why you assume I have.

Because you say botting doesnt affect the economy even when its glaringly obvious that it does.

They vastly increase gear inflation.

Why would someone who's botting keep something if it's not meant for consuming in any form? I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

Consume
verb (used with object)
1.
to destroy or expend by use; use up.

Because crafting materials are consumed when you use them.
The ral p_amy and jewel is gone thus leaving less of them in the game.
And if you want to craft again you need to get more thus creating a demand and lessening supply.

When you find a shako and put it on its still there and the supply of shakos in the game is now bigger and demand is less as you now have one on your toon and dont need a new one.

I really dont see how this can be so hard understand.

 

[nepeta]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

What's so special about having 12 arachnid's meshes? I've got 25 and that's only because I've stopped picking them up -^

But tbqh, they should just remove indestructibility and repair options, that'd make for a cleaner economy ^^

 

[krischan]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

Where do you find all these Arachnid Meshes? In the secret spider level? :azn:

 

[Flax]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

What's so special about having 12 arachnid's meshes? I've got 25 and that's only because I've stopped picking them up -^

But tbqh, they should just remove indestructibility and repair options, that'd make for a cleaner economy ^^

thats an interesting option or atleast for the better items so you'd have the choice of a low power level but hassle free inventory or a good one that needed replacement.

Never struck me as an option for D2 but i have been discussing similar solutions for other games.

 

[nepeta]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

Where do you find all these Arachnid Meshes? In the secret spider level? :azn:

16 from mephisto, 9 from baal, 2 from various lvl85 areas to be precise

 

[krischan]

Re: [confirmed] Diablo II - Ladder Reset October 25

In order to find that many, you need an average of 13400 Meph runs and 7900 Baal runs in 8 player games with 400%MF. Distributing them over let's say 150 days (3/4 of the days of the current ladder season), that's 90 visits to Meph and 53 visits to Baal, each and every day. A Meph run might take 2 minutes, Baal needs 5, so it's 430 minutes of Meph and Baal runs, more than 7 hours a day!

Edit: OK, explanation found, you seem to be a SP player and your numbers probably involve a couple of years. I was talking about trade lists of people having that many from the current ladder season which started last March.