chance to cast spell on strike with cast delay (rift?) ifr

[acceleration turkey]

chance to cast spell on strike with cast delay (rift?)

ive used items before that cast when struck such as Tgods, and i remember that the fist of heavens attack momentarily turns your skills red whn it goes off, indicating a cast delay. this is why i removed it from my tristram smiter because it would interrupt a constant attack against a life-tapped uber.

im wondering if the same would be true for frozen orb on rift. i know it would momentarily red-out my skills when it goes off, but zeal will continue uninterrupted, unless of course it was the 5th zeal hit, in which case there would be a stall before the next zeal could be inititiated, right?

does the cast delay on the frozen orb also affect additional frozen orbs, such that if i trigger a frozen orb on strike one, i cannot trigger another frozen orb until the cast timer has gone away? this would reduce the number of frozen orbs pretty significantly, as you would have to wait a full second to roll for another 16% chance.

assuming a 5 frame zeal attack, you have a 53% chance of triggering a frozen orb roughly per second with a 16% chance, but that includes the possibility of rolling two back to back to make up for going 12 hits without rolling one, for example. since a zeal attack takes about a second, and the cast timer is about a second, the 53% chance becomes the ceiling, rather than the average, for triggering an orb, and thus maybe the orbs trigger as if the chance were halved (average of 53% and 0%), or 26.5% in terms of equivalent frequency of orb output.

is this correct?

 

[Ouallada]

This is a great question, and one I have been meaning to ask. Going to build a firework zealot soon. I don't have the answers though, so I'm gonna camp here with you and wait for the usual gurus to step up, if you don't mind.

 

[acceleration turkey]

im asking not only if the casting of a cast delay spell will prohibit further cast on strike spells from going off, but also how exactly to calculate the functional percent once the cast delay is taken into account, to see just how much of an affect it has. in my view, if you have a spell with a second delay, and a series of attacks that take a second, you have X% chance of setting off one attack, and if you can ONLY have one spell, then that X% becomes the ceiling, and so the average of the ceiling and 0 is 1/2 ceiling, since you either get 0 or 1 frozen orbs per zeal, where a full zeal is roughly a second.

 

[SSoG]

ive used items before that cast when struck such as Tgods, and i remember that the fist of heavens attack momentarily turns your skills red whn it goes off, indicating a cast delay. this is why i removed it from my tristram smiter because it would interrupt a constant attack against a life-tapped uber.

im wondering if the same would be true for frozen orb on rift. i know it would momentarily red-out my skills when it goes off, but zeal will continue uninterrupted, unless of course it was the 5th zeal hit, in which case there would be a stall before the next zeal could be inititiated, right?

Actually, Zeal is a rather odd skill. If you hold down the mouse button to continuously Zeal, the game treats it as one long uninterrupted attack until you let go. As a result, even if the Frozorb comes on the 5th hit of the Zeal, it won't red out your skill- you'll continue zealing uninterrupted until you stop.

does the cast delay on the frozen orb also affect additional frozen orbs, such that if i trigger a frozen orb on strike one, i cannot trigger another frozen orb until the cast timer has gone away?

No, there is no timer on ctc skills. The "everything gets redded out" is the result of a glitch, not a timer. Speaking entirely theoretically, it would be possible to trigger 5 consecutive orbs on 5 consecutive attacks if you got extremely lucky on your rolls.

 

[acceleration turkey]

is that right. thanks.

 

[Hrus]

No, there is no timer on ctc skills. The "everything gets redded out" is the result of a glitch, not a timer. Speaking entirely theoretically, it would be possible to trigger 5 consecutive orbs on 5 consecutive attacks if you got extremely lucky on your rolls.

I really don't like this glitch, when all "turns red" I usually drink a mana pot immediatly (if in a battle). :undecided:

 

[jakotaco]

No, there is no timer on ctc skills. The "everything gets redded out" is the result of a glitch, not a timer. Speaking entirely theoretically, it would be possible to trigger 5 consecutive orbs on 5 consecutive attacks if you got extremely lucky on your rolls.

Except for torch right? never see that fire twice simultaneously afaik. Or am I mistaken about that?

 

[SSoG]

Except for torch right? never see that fire twice simultaneously afaik. Or am I mistaken about that?

The Torch is weird. For some reason, I think it doesn't trigger one while it's still animating another. I don't really know, I've only had one torch, and I used it on a caster (FoH Pally), and I've never tested it any. I do know that you can trigger back-to-back orbs with Zeal, though, because I've done it. I've also triggered back-to-back Hydras with Strafe. And I've even triggered two Orbs simultaneously once with a Rift-wielding Blade Shield Spamming Assassin (yes, I make weird builds).

 

[stephan]

Does anyone how multiple CtC on striking effects work? Are each of them rolled seperately (you can have multiple effects with one hit) or are they rolled after each other?

 

[Ponzicar]

Didn't they change the torch in one of the more recent patches to not proc if it still had flames out? I remember that when they first came out, amazons with a torch using strafe were able to cause some bad lag.

 

[SSoG]

Does anyone how multiple CtC on striking effects work? Are each of them rolled seperately (you can have multiple effects with one hit) or are they rolled after each other?

As soon as one CtC triggers, all others automatically fail. You can never trigger more than one spell with a single attack.

 

[jakotaco]

As soon as one CtC triggers, all others automatically fail. You can never trigger more than one spell with a single attack.

hmm, any special order they "roll" them in?

 

[SSoG]

hmm, any special order they "roll" them in?

Yes there is, but I don't know it. It would be testable, but there are so many possible permutations that it would take hundreds of man-hours, and I'm just not willing to devote the work over such a trifling game mechanic.

It's possible that it checks the mods on certain pieces of gear first (i.e. weapon first, then gloves, then rings), or it's possible that it rolls them based on the order of where they appear on the skills list (lower tier skills before higher tier skills on the same character, classic character skills before expansion character skills, etc). Then again, it's also possible that the order is determined alphabetically, or reverse-alphabetically, or based on the number of letters in the name of the skill being rolled. I really have no clue.

The only thing that I know for certain is that Flee rolls before Blind. For instance, "Silence" has a 25% chance to cause Flee, and a 100% chance to cause Blind, and the end result is that monsters flee 25% of the time and are blinded 75% of the time, which definitely means that the Flee is getting rolled first.

 

[Orphan]

As soon as one CtC triggers, all others automatically fail. You can never trigger more than one spell with a single attack.

You can trigger more than 1 CtC spell with a single hit.

 

[Summerfun]

Im pretty sure it checks in the same order as you equip your items when you pick up your body. Not much help since i can remember that :thumbsup:

 

[acceleration turkey]

i just used rift today on a zeal paladin, and sometimes the zeal gets interrupted midway, and redded out when the frozen orb triggers. to avoid this, i am supposed to hold down the mouse button?

 

[SSoG]

You can trigger more than 1 CtC spell with a single hit.

Are you certain about that? Maxx Power (who I generally trust on this type of thing- not, of course, that I don't likewise generally trust you on this sort of thing) has said that only one CtC of any given type can trigger per event (i.e. only one "on striking" ctc per hit, or one "when struck" ctc per hit absorbed). He said he wasn't sure if "on attack" was considered the same class as "on striking", so it'd be possible for one of each of those to stack, maybe, but he was quite clear that you can't trigger two "on strikings" with a single attack.

When two widely respected D2 scholars disagree on something, there's really only one way to solve the disagreement. You guessed it- a good, old-fashioned gladiatorial battle to the death. Well, either that, or asking both parties how sure they are. :wink3:

Im pretty sure it checks in the same order as you equip your items when you pick up your body. Not much help since i can remember that :thumbsup:

Head
Neck
Torso
Right Arm
Left Arm
Right Ring
Left Ring
Belt
Feet
Gloves

 

[Orphan]

Are you certain about that? Maxx Power (who I generally trust on this type of thing- not, of course, that I don't likewise generally trust you on this sort of thing) has said that only one CtC of any given type can trigger per event (i.e. only one "on striking" ctc per hit, or one "when struck" ctc per hit absorbed). He said he wasn't sure if "on attack" was considered the same class as "on striking", so it'd be possible for one of each of those to stack, maybe, but he was quite clear that you can't trigger two "on strikings" with a single attack.

I'm actually quite certain infact :wink3:

I had previously modded a SP game to alter Rift so that it's frozen orb triggered 100% of the time (this was to test various interruptions...long story) but the result was both tornados and frozen orbs being dispelled on a regular basis.

Additionally, I tested this further and threw draculs grasp on, and all three (life tap, frozen orb and tornado) were triggering at the same time on a few attacks (frozen orb was the only one with 100% chance).

Although Rift's frozen orb is "on attack", while it's tornado is "on striking", Dracul's life tap is also "on striking".

In all cases, I only attacked normally. I didn't use any multi-attack skill such as Zeal or Fury, as I wanted to ensure that the proc's were occuring on a single attack.

I can do further tests simply by modding the game to have everything at 100% chance to cast, and seeing how many affects will trigger on a single attack, but that would need to wait until tonight.

When two widely respected D2 scholars disagree on something, there's really only one way to solve the disagreement. You guessed it- a good, old-fashioned gladiatorial battle to the death. Well, either that, or asking both parties how sure they are. :wink3:

*dons helmet and grabs spear*

I'm ready :wink3:

 

[SSoG]

I'm actually quite certain infact :wink3:

I had previously modded a SP game to alter Rift so that it's frozen orb triggered 100% of the time (this was to test various interruptions...long story) but the result was both tornados and frozen orbs being dispelled on a regular basis.

Additionally, I tested this further and threw draculs grasp on, and all three (life tap, frozen orb and tornado) were triggering at the same time on a few attacks (frozen orb was the only one with 100% chance).

Although Rift's frozen orb is "on attack", while it's tornado is "on striking", Dracul's life tap is also "on striking".

In all cases, I only attacked normally. I didn't use any multi-attack skill such as Zeal or Fury, as I wanted to ensure that the proc's were occuring on a single attack.

I can do further tests simply by modding the game to have everything at 100% chance to cast, and seeing how many affects will trigger on a single attack, but that would need to wait until tonight.

Cool, thanks for the explanation. :smiley:

*dons helmet and grabs spear*

I'm ready :wink3:

At first, I was thinking that the spear would be a risky choice, since if Maxx gets inside your reach you'd be toast... but then I remembered that Maxx only has one arm, so he won't be able to bring a shield with him. Without a shield, no way is he getting in close, in which case I'm quite convinced that your superior reach will carry the day for you. :laugh:

 

[Veilside]

In my experience and this is using the destruction runeword i haven't noted any sort of casting delays when casting volcanoes and molten boulders when the weapon strikes. I frequently see 3-4 volcanoes going off in about a second, and i imagine FO is the same.