crawlingdeadman1
New member
Wolfbarb is the king trav runner for safety IMO. No MF needed there.
Berserk Barbarian, MF Pit Runner Guide/Write-Up
- Thread starter Fabian
- Start date
Pyrotechnician1
New member
I said trav runs....didn't I say trav runs?
A little late to the party, but I stumbled on this thread since my recent return to the game. Since I want to take (yet) another run at some missing TC87 uniques, I've been building one of these MFers and I have a couple questions on the final details:
1. I'm thinking of sticking a Gloom runeword (15% ctc level 3 Dim Vision) on my merc to help with the occasional nasty archer and/or skeleton pack. But with Howl essentially being a curse and these two overwriting each other, I'm not sure if it's a good idea. My hope is that I'll get in a Howl first and the monsters will run away - and keep running even if the Dim Vision curse gets triggered afterwards. I seem to remember Howl working like that but it's been a few years since I played regularly. Thoughts or experiences?
2. I'm torn between dual-weapon (to get max MF) or using a shield. My non-fire resists will be pretty poor on kill-switch (LoH needed for IAS, and my 1/17 amulet has 12 FR too), but is elemental damage even a threat in Pits? Or how about the lost DR% if I don't have Stormshield? Or how about a different shield altogether (ISTed Lance Guard for some FHR, DtM, Life, Deadly Strike and a lowered block %, for example - or maybe just a simple Rhyme in a low-block base for nice balance of resists and MF)?
My MF will be around 4-500 if I use stormshield, but if I go with a 6-IST PB I can push that in the neighborhood of 600 pretty easily. I'm softcore and don't mind the occasional death, and I definitely want uniques (i.e. not sets), so the extra MF would fit. But I don't really want a fragile potion-addict, and I'd also need to hunt down 3 mores ISTs for the 6xIST weapon (i.e. not an especially appealing project, but I could work towards it).
FYI, my currently planned setup is as follows:
Casting switch: HOTO & Wizspike
1/17 crafted caster amulet
Grief (3/4 of the rolls are near perfect, except 4th - 31 IAS - isn't a good break for this build)
???? weapon/shield
Enigma
Harlequin Crest (PTopaz) - I seem to have forgot to find a Cham over the years
Trangs belt
LoH
WarTravs
Nagelrings or a couple of Scintillating Rings of Fortune (near perfect rolls)
Charms: Gheeds + MF/Sharp/Fine (being self-found I definitely don't have the extensive charm-base that Fabian has, but I'm not without good options here)
1. I'm thinking of sticking a Gloom runeword (15% ctc level 3 Dim Vision) on my merc to help with the occasional nasty archer and/or skeleton pack. But with Howl essentially being a curse and these two overwriting each other, I'm not sure if it's a good idea. My hope is that I'll get in a Howl first and the monsters will run away - and keep running even if the Dim Vision curse gets triggered afterwards. I seem to remember Howl working like that but it's been a few years since I played regularly. Thoughts or experiences?
2. I'm torn between dual-weapon (to get max MF) or using a shield. My non-fire resists will be pretty poor on kill-switch (LoH needed for IAS, and my 1/17 amulet has 12 FR too), but is elemental damage even a threat in Pits? Or how about the lost DR% if I don't have Stormshield? Or how about a different shield altogether (ISTed Lance Guard for some FHR, DtM, Life, Deadly Strike and a lowered block %, for example - or maybe just a simple Rhyme in a low-block base for nice balance of resists and MF)?
My MF will be around 4-500 if I use stormshield, but if I go with a 6-IST PB I can push that in the neighborhood of 600 pretty easily. I'm softcore and don't mind the occasional death, and I definitely want uniques (i.e. not sets), so the extra MF would fit. But I don't really want a fragile potion-addict, and I'd also need to hunt down 3 mores ISTs for the 6xIST weapon (i.e. not an especially appealing project, but I could work towards it).
FYI, my currently planned setup is as follows:
Casting switch: HOTO & Wizspike
1/17 crafted caster amulet
Grief (3/4 of the rolls are near perfect, except 4th - 31 IAS - isn't a good break for this build)
???? weapon/shield
Enigma
Harlequin Crest (PTopaz) - I seem to have forgot to find a Cham over the years
Trangs belt
LoH
WarTravs
Nagelrings or a couple of Scintillating Rings of Fortune (near perfect rolls)
Charms: Gheeds + MF/Sharp/Fine (being self-found I definitely don't have the extensive charm-base that Fabian has, but I'm not without good options here)
fred,
I've never played with Gloom (and probably never with Dim Vision at all), so I couldn't tell you how it would turn out. My guess is it won't work out as well in practice as you'd like, but it seems like one of those things that would take 10 minutes of testing to get a good feel for. Gloom is pretty cheap, too.
I would start out with a Stormshield probably. See if that works, then see if you can switch to something else (Lance Guard/Rhyme/PB/etc) and still be reasonably safe. Like I wrote in the OP, I like how customizable this Barb is, you can pretty much choose any place on the speed/safety spectrum and go with whatever works for you. Stormshield seems like a nice choice for starting out to me, though. I wouldn't worry too much about the lost MF from a 6Ist PB; sure it's nice and whatever, but smooth gameplay where you're not constantly dying or having to pick up 6 potions a run is definitely more important. It's not like 4-500 MF is awful in any way.
Too bad about the Grief IAS, but of course it will only start mattering once you want to use Chance Guards over LoH. At that point I would consider socketing the Shako or the Stormshield with some IAS jewel.
I've never played with Gloom (and probably never with Dim Vision at all), so I couldn't tell you how it would turn out. My guess is it won't work out as well in practice as you'd like, but it seems like one of those things that would take 10 minutes of testing to get a good feel for. Gloom is pretty cheap, too.
I would start out with a Stormshield probably. See if that works, then see if you can switch to something else (Lance Guard/Rhyme/PB/etc) and still be reasonably safe. Like I wrote in the OP, I like how customizable this Barb is, you can pretty much choose any place on the speed/safety spectrum and go with whatever works for you. Stormshield seems like a nice choice for starting out to me, though. I wouldn't worry too much about the lost MF from a 6Ist PB; sure it's nice and whatever, but smooth gameplay where you're not constantly dying or having to pick up 6 potions a run is definitely more important. It's not like 4-500 MF is awful in any way.
Too bad about the Grief IAS, but of course it will only start mattering once you want to use Chance Guards over LoH. At that point I would consider socketing the Shako or the Stormshield with some IAS jewel.
Pits. Nothing beats boss pack/sec ratio berserker in pits makes. Besides you'll never find your Tyrael's Might from those (not that it'll be easy in pits either)
Shenk, Eldritch, can't drop Tyrael, Web, Astron's, Mang Song's, Fathom, Stormlash
Sharptooth and Thresh can't drop Mang Song's, Stormlash and Tyrael
Pindleskin can't drop Tyrael (and Azurewrath + Arachnid Mesh, but those are not really important)
In Pit's bosses can drop everything
Therefore, those a5 bosses, except Pindle, are a waste of time. Pindleskin has almost 10 times better chance to drop Web and Astreon's compared to Sharptooth. Thresh Socket is the only one who is "almost" like Pindleskin in the terms of drop probabilities minus he can't drop mentioned items unlike Pindleskin.
So, what you really compare is running Pindle vs running Pits. This is not an easy competition since Pindle-runner can be very efficient. In fact, if you play Pindle berserker well, you will have very very hard time beating him with pit berserker in terms of efficiency. So far I think Fabian and me are the only ones who have more efficient pit berserker than pindle berserker. However since Pindle can't drop Tyrael's, I assume running Pits is what you really want to master.
Sharptooth and Thresh can't drop Mang Song's, Stormlash and Tyrael
Pindleskin can't drop Tyrael (and Azurewrath + Arachnid Mesh, but those are not really important)
In Pit's bosses can drop everything
Therefore, those a5 bosses, except Pindle, are a waste of time. Pindleskin has almost 10 times better chance to drop Web and Astreon's compared to Sharptooth. Thresh Socket is the only one who is "almost" like Pindleskin in the terms of drop probabilities minus he can't drop mentioned items unlike Pindleskin.
So, what you really compare is running Pindle vs running Pits. This is not an easy competition since Pindle-runner can be very efficient. In fact, if you play Pindle berserker well, you will have very very hard time beating him with pit berserker in terms of efficiency. So far I think Fabian and me are the only ones who have more efficient pit berserker than pindle berserker. However since Pindle can't drop Tyrael's, I assume running Pits is what you really want to master.
Thanks, Fabian, for the advice. I already have a Gloom on my singer/LK-runner's merc so I guess I'll give it a try in the Pits too. In order to help speed (and, therefore, safety) I definitely want to aim for 1-2 hit KO's, which is part of the reason I was looking at a Lance Guard (since the cumulative +damage from my charms and lower synergy levels will fall far short of what you have). But I'll probably take your advice on starting with the Stormshield, at least until I see how safe it is.
@incomplet, like Grape said, the SuperUniques generally have a slightly-lower level than the random uniques (and even Champions) you meet in the Pits; Champs are monster-level (mlvl) 87 in the pits and random uniques are mlvl 88 - while Pindle is 86, Eldritch, ThreshSocket & Sharptooth are 84, and Shenk is 83.
So a few of the items with quality level (qlvl) of 85 or 86 would only drop from Pindle, and you wouldn't get any possibility of the 3 items with qlvl 87 (Tyrael's Might, Azurewrath, and Arachnid's Mesh) from the SuperUniques.
Edit: beaten by Gripphon
@incomplet, like Grape said, the SuperUniques generally have a slightly-lower level than the random uniques (and even Champions) you meet in the Pits; Champs are monster-level (mlvl) 87 in the pits and random uniques are mlvl 88 - while Pindle is 86, Eldritch, ThreshSocket & Sharptooth are 84, and Shenk is 83.
So a few of the items with quality level (qlvl) of 85 or 86 would only drop from Pindle, and you wouldn't get any possibility of the 3 items with qlvl 87 (Tyrael's Might, Azurewrath, and Arachnid's Mesh) from the SuperUniques.
Edit: beaten by Gripphon
Thanks for the advice everyone. I now have the following set up:
Weapon1: Grief PB (32 ias +354 damage =[)
Weapon2: Stormshield (Socketed with rare jewel +ed/min/max/mf) as a placeholder until 6os IST Phase Blade
Armour: Enigma Dusk Shroud (+774def)
Helm: Shako (Ptopaz)
Glove: Chancies (40mf)
Belt: Goldwrap (Uped)
Boots: Wartrav (50mf)
Ring1: Raven (20dex 241ar)
Ring2: Rare (10fcr, 18ar, 59mana, 2dr, 27pr, 7mf)
Ammy: Maras (placeholder until level 89 for +2barb, 9fcr ammy)
Switch1+2: Suicide branches (both ist)
Charms: As much +mf as possible
Just a quick question though...Should I bother putting in a few charms/gear for FHR? Or any other general tips for my gear? And whats the deal with howl, sometimes it just doesnt work on normal mobs? And what hotkey are people here using for wep switch?
Aside from that, so far so good! I never really bothered with barbarians up until now, previously using my sorc for virtually everything. SO its a fresh change. And once I ramp up my skill with switching between caster and normal weapons, I can see how it can be more efficient for mf when you factor in hork. Managed to already find a high ed Deathcleaver within my first 20 runs lol.
View attachment 4878
Weapon1: Grief PB (32 ias +354 damage =[)
Weapon2: Stormshield (Socketed with rare jewel +ed/min/max/mf) as a placeholder until 6os IST Phase Blade
Armour: Enigma Dusk Shroud (+774def)
Helm: Shako (Ptopaz)
Glove: Chancies (40mf)
Belt: Goldwrap (Uped)
Boots: Wartrav (50mf)
Ring1: Raven (20dex 241ar)
Ring2: Rare (10fcr, 18ar, 59mana, 2dr, 27pr, 7mf)
Ammy: Maras (placeholder until level 89 for +2barb, 9fcr ammy)
Switch1+2: Suicide branches (both ist)
Charms: As much +mf as possible
Just a quick question though...Should I bother putting in a few charms/gear for FHR? Or any other general tips for my gear? And whats the deal with howl, sometimes it just doesnt work on normal mobs? And what hotkey are people here using for wep switch?
Aside from that, so far so good! I never really bothered with barbarians up until now, previously using my sorc for virtually everything. SO its a fresh change. And once I ramp up my skill with switching between caster and normal weapons, I can see how it can be more efficient for mf when you factor in hork. Managed to already find a high ed Deathcleaver within my first 20 runs lol.
View attachment 4878
There are some things you can improve.
Gear:
Since you are using Ravenfrost, I assume you don't have Trang belt, yes? If you do have Trang belt, remove that Ravenfrost and use that belt as source of CBF. Beware, you will need to replace gloves to get ias breakpoint then. Other option is to replace Stormshield with Rhyme shield to get CBF and avoid cold damage from your equipment. You will lose some damage reduction, but since you go max block, your barb will be very very safe anyway.
Or you can continue like this, Trang belt shouldn't be too hard to find.
If you remove Ravenfrost, check to remove all cold damage sources from your equipment, including charms. Also do the same for your merc.
Inventory:
You can improve your inventory a lot. Don't know do you really need that much free space because you pick up many things or something. My suggestion is like this if you need some inventory space.
Use full 8 columns of charms. MF as much as you can, for the rest you can use life/mana or life/AR or life/whatever or mana charms, whatever you find useful. Put cube in inventory. Any "large" item you pick you will toss in cube, and you will have 2x2 space below cube to fast pick up charms, runes, rings or whatever you pick up. I don't use any free space in inventory, only cube, and that is enough even when I pick many things. That should be more than enough space for any item you take. If you are bored with usage of cube like this, then try to get used to it. It will come naturally to you with some practice.
Unless you pick tons of random items, tome of identify is waste of space. During run you pick up any item, and then after you start new round, you spawn right next to Cain and use him to identify all items at once. That is faster than doing it item by item by yourself.
Even faster way is not to use Cain at all, just toss unidentified items into stash and continue running, you will see stats of all items in Atma or whatever you are using after stash is full. This probably won't be better if you really pick up tons of items.
Last column of belt is very great to have scrolls of town portal. If you happen to pick up several items and you don't have space in inventory for everything, just use scroll, toss items you carry into stash, return and pick new item up.
Try to use only Full Rejuv potions. With time you will master potion management and will be able to easily refill your belt with potions while running. It's faster to deal with only one type of potions than with 3, and full rejuv is obvious choice. Bosses drop tons of them.
FHR:
Sure you can toss some hit recovery charms in if you think you need it. Barb has great fhr breakpoints so it's usually not needed to use any hit recovery from equipment. However, if you think it will come in handy to you, then use 3 small charms to get 7 frames hit recovery (15 fhr needed), perhaps that will help. Test it. With time you will eventually get used to 0 fhr because it's really enough.
Howl:
Sometimes when you cast howl and at the same time some monster puts you to hit recovery, animation of howl will appear, but nothing will happen. Beware when you are under heavy fire, you might need to reposition yourself to cast howl or cast it more than once to be sure it will work.
Hotkeys:
Caps Lock - weapon switch for me
Gear:
Since you are using Ravenfrost, I assume you don't have Trang belt, yes? If you do have Trang belt, remove that Ravenfrost and use that belt as source of CBF. Beware, you will need to replace gloves to get ias breakpoint then. Other option is to replace Stormshield with Rhyme shield to get CBF and avoid cold damage from your equipment. You will lose some damage reduction, but since you go max block, your barb will be very very safe anyway.
Or you can continue like this, Trang belt shouldn't be too hard to find.
If you remove Ravenfrost, check to remove all cold damage sources from your equipment, including charms. Also do the same for your merc.
Inventory:
You can improve your inventory a lot. Don't know do you really need that much free space because you pick up many things or something. My suggestion is like this if you need some inventory space.
Use full 8 columns of charms. MF as much as you can, for the rest you can use life/mana or life/AR or life/whatever or mana charms, whatever you find useful. Put cube in inventory. Any "large" item you pick you will toss in cube, and you will have 2x2 space below cube to fast pick up charms, runes, rings or whatever you pick up. I don't use any free space in inventory, only cube, and that is enough even when I pick many things. That should be more than enough space for any item you take. If you are bored with usage of cube like this, then try to get used to it. It will come naturally to you with some practice.
Unless you pick tons of random items, tome of identify is waste of space. During run you pick up any item, and then after you start new round, you spawn right next to Cain and use him to identify all items at once. That is faster than doing it item by item by yourself.
Even faster way is not to use Cain at all, just toss unidentified items into stash and continue running, you will see stats of all items in Atma or whatever you are using after stash is full. This probably won't be better if you really pick up tons of items.
Last column of belt is very great to have scrolls of town portal. If you happen to pick up several items and you don't have space in inventory for everything, just use scroll, toss items you carry into stash, return and pick new item up.
Try to use only Full Rejuv potions. With time you will master potion management and will be able to easily refill your belt with potions while running. It's faster to deal with only one type of potions than with 3, and full rejuv is obvious choice. Bosses drop tons of them.
FHR:
Sure you can toss some hit recovery charms in if you think you need it. Barb has great fhr breakpoints so it's usually not needed to use any hit recovery from equipment. However, if you think it will come in handy to you, then use 3 small charms to get 7 frames hit recovery (15 fhr needed), perhaps that will help. Test it. With time you will eventually get used to 0 fhr because it's really enough.
Howl:
Sometimes when you cast howl and at the same time some monster puts you to hit recovery, animation of howl will appear, but nothing will happen. Beware when you are under heavy fire, you might need to reposition yourself to cast howl or cast it more than once to be sure it will work.
Hotkeys:
Caps Lock - weapon switch for me
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Great! I am making some good progress now, found another crappy tc87 (cranium basher) aswell as an IST.
Another quick question though? Is it worth killing champion packs? I feel as if I spend most of my time in chasing around fleeing devilkins & archers. And im not sure whether its best just to skip them altogether or not.
Also, would anyone be able to suggest whether my Pits map is good or could be better?
Its about 5 teleports away when you exit the cathedral.
Green line is my journey
Red stars represents a boss/champ pack there 90% of the time.
Pink stars represents a boss/champ pack there occasionally.
Level 2 has 2-4 boss packs, with an average of 3.
View attachment 4887
Another quick question though? Is it worth killing champion packs? I feel as if I spend most of my time in chasing around fleeing devilkins & archers. And im not sure whether its best just to skip them altogether or not.
Also, would anyone be able to suggest whether my Pits map is good or could be better?
Its about 5 teleports away when you exit the cathedral.
Green line is my journey
Red stars represents a boss/champ pack there 90% of the time.
Pink stars represents a boss/champ pack there occasionally.
Level 2 has 2-4 boss packs, with an average of 3.
View attachment 4887
Last edited:
I'll use these handy spoilers since my answer is a long one.
[highlight]Is it worth killing champions packs? How to kill them?[/highlight]
[highlight]How to find good pit map?[/highlight]
Here I will just copy-paste my writing from Lounge topic in here. It answers questions like how to find a good pit map, how to determine is map good enough, what to look for when searching for map and so on.
So, I can't tell you is your map good enough or not, do tests as described to determine that. From the first look, your map can be very good if your average bosspack count is high enough. Test your efficiency, determine average bosspack count.
[highlight]Is it worth killing champions packs? How to kill them?[/highlight]
Short answer is, yes, it is well worth to kill them just like you kill bosses. Archers and devilkins are tricky because they run away, so sometimes it's not worth it to kill the whole champion pack, but try to kill at least 2 champions if you can.
1. Devilkin champion pack
Archer champions are not so problematic unlike devilkins because they spawn among million of other devilkins you are not interested in. What to do? Tele into them or next to them, Howl and start killing. Try to aim for champions only, but you usually kill some non-champion devilkins too. After one die, other champions will run away. Now is the perfect time to swap weapons to your casting switch and hork dead bodies around you. When you hork, some champions might return to you, so just simply switch back to swords and kill them. It works great many times and you usually kill whole champion pack that way. So, why to chase around when you can hork bodies you already killed and wait for them to come to you? Beware, sometimes they will run too far and wont return to you at time, sometimes your merc will kill something and they will start running again.
If that is the case, you can either just skip the rest of the champions and go on to the next bosspack, or you can tele at champions to kill them fast. This teleing on them and killing requires skill and is not easy to do, it takes some time to master it. Especially if you have to tele on them + switch to kill.
Another possibility is to kill champions first and then hork when they all die. Again, tele into them, Howl and start berserk. Once you kill one or two, the rest will run away. Just tele on them with your KILL switch to kill them, it's easier and faster than to bother with switching to casting switch, then tele, then switch again. Sometimes running after them with berserk is better than teleing on them, and is definitely more user-friendly compared to teleporting on them + kill.
This is something you have to master yourself, to see when is what method of killing the best. I combine all described methods depending on each individual situation.
Sometimes I kill them right away and they don't have time to run away. Sometimes I kill first two, then tele on others to finish them off immediately. Sometimes I just run after them with berserk. Sometimes I skip the rest of devilkins. But, at all times I kill at least 2 of them, I never skip entire champion pack.
2. Archer champion pack
They are easier to deal with. Again, similar method as with devilkins, but this time you don't have millions of creeps around to worry about, only champion pack of archers. Just tele next to them and start berserking. What to do when the rest of archers run away? The same method as with devilkins. I have to say I really prefer teleporting on them with my kill-switch to finish them off, you take merc with you + get faster to them + you kill them faster. You also avoid huge damage you can otherwise take when you run after them and then they run and shoot back. So, teleing on them with kill switch is my preferred method of dealing with them and I find it fastest way too. But, you can run after them with berserk if you find that easier.
Also, you can kill 2 archers or whatever, and then when they run away, you hork this one you killed, and then when you are done, it is likely running archers will stop running, so you can just tele on one of them + switch to kill, then do the same for the other one.
When to skip? I rarely ever skip any champion archer at all, but sometimes when zillion of creeps are around, I let that one fleeing archer to run and I continue with my life to the next bosspack.
General idea is to kill at least some champions of the champion pack, and skip remaining ones only if it seems like you will lose too much time chasing them around instead to just kill next bosspack.
1. Devilkin champion pack
Archer champions are not so problematic unlike devilkins because they spawn among million of other devilkins you are not interested in. What to do? Tele into them or next to them, Howl and start killing. Try to aim for champions only, but you usually kill some non-champion devilkins too. After one die, other champions will run away. Now is the perfect time to swap weapons to your casting switch and hork dead bodies around you. When you hork, some champions might return to you, so just simply switch back to swords and kill them. It works great many times and you usually kill whole champion pack that way. So, why to chase around when you can hork bodies you already killed and wait for them to come to you? Beware, sometimes they will run too far and wont return to you at time, sometimes your merc will kill something and they will start running again.
If that is the case, you can either just skip the rest of the champions and go on to the next bosspack, or you can tele at champions to kill them fast. This teleing on them and killing requires skill and is not easy to do, it takes some time to master it. Especially if you have to tele on them + switch to kill.
Another possibility is to kill champions first and then hork when they all die. Again, tele into them, Howl and start berserk. Once you kill one or two, the rest will run away. Just tele on them with your KILL switch to kill them, it's easier and faster than to bother with switching to casting switch, then tele, then switch again. Sometimes running after them with berserk is better than teleing on them, and is definitely more user-friendly compared to teleporting on them + kill.
This is something you have to master yourself, to see when is what method of killing the best. I combine all described methods depending on each individual situation.
Sometimes I kill them right away and they don't have time to run away. Sometimes I kill first two, then tele on others to finish them off immediately. Sometimes I just run after them with berserk. Sometimes I skip the rest of devilkins. But, at all times I kill at least 2 of them, I never skip entire champion pack.
2. Archer champion pack
They are easier to deal with. Again, similar method as with devilkins, but this time you don't have millions of creeps around to worry about, only champion pack of archers. Just tele next to them and start berserking. What to do when the rest of archers run away? The same method as with devilkins. I have to say I really prefer teleporting on them with my kill-switch to finish them off, you take merc with you + get faster to them + you kill them faster. You also avoid huge damage you can otherwise take when you run after them and then they run and shoot back. So, teleing on them with kill switch is my preferred method of dealing with them and I find it fastest way too. But, you can run after them with berserk if you find that easier.
Also, you can kill 2 archers or whatever, and then when they run away, you hork this one you killed, and then when you are done, it is likely running archers will stop running, so you can just tele on one of them + switch to kill, then do the same for the other one.
When to skip? I rarely ever skip any champion archer at all, but sometimes when zillion of creeps are around, I let that one fleeing archer to run and I continue with my life to the next bosspack.
General idea is to kill at least some champions of the champion pack, and skip remaining ones only if it seems like you will lose too much time chasing them around instead to just kill next bosspack.
[highlight]How to find good pit map?[/highlight]
Here I will just copy-paste my writing from Lounge topic in here. It answers questions like how to find a good pit map, how to determine is map good enough, what to look for when searching for map and so on.
I will try to explain my way of finding decent map, but it's not easy task to find one.
First of all, ideal is to find Pit entrance that is as close as possible to Outer Cloister. Note that it can be just a little further if you can easily reach it with teleporting trick when you open character screen. I saw some players have map where Pit entrance is close to Black Marsh waypoint, so you can try that too if you want.
When it comes to Pit itself, there are few tips how to find good map. You want map which is small and has as many bosspacks on it as possible. Easiest way is to see what is Pit 2 level like, there you can find map where 3 bosses spawn frequently and 4 bosses sometimes. Good Pit 2 means Pit 1 can have less bosses to still maintain good average number of bosspacks. But that is not a rule, just a tip. I have good map with average Pit 2 just because Pit 1 is great, but it's very likely that difference between great and fantastic map is in Pit 2 area. It is a big deal if you have 2.8 bosspacks average there instead of, let's say, 2.2.
In the end, you want map that provides good average of both Pit 1 and Pit 2.
When it comes to map shapes, they are not crucial, but are often very important. You don't wanna map where you have dead ends and need to return back to cover common areas where bosspacks spawn. However this doesn't mean that map where you need to do that is not good. I had pretty good Pit map where I had quite large dead end and have to teleport back a bit, but doesn't matter cause common bosspacks there covered time lost. But, in general you want as few as possible dead ends on map, mostly trying to avoid them if you can. Please note that dead ends I talk about are those where bosspacks frequently spawn. On many maps you have big dead end where bosspacks don't spawn at all, you will naturally skip those.
Also, map with good shape is desirable so you can run it easily without map turned on. But it's not really important, you can get used to anything with good amount of running. So, you asked do I look for certain shape map? I don't, most important thing which defines good map is seconds/bosspack ratio. The lower, the better. This is what I look for and it doesn't matter do i have dead ends on map or is map bad shape as long as this ratio is great.
Now, harder part of searching for good map. It is good idea to run map 3-4 times to see is it potentially good or not before rerolling. It really comes down to experience to determine what can be potentially good map, but it's not hard. If you find map you can run considerably fast and has many bosspacks, you found potentially good map. In 10-20 runs you will see does map fit in. Sometimes you will find map that has many bosspacks first few runs, and then it starts to sux.
Next step when you find something that seems fine, you have to measure your running times and count bosspacks as you run. That will give you seconds/bosspack ratio you care about. How many runs? Impossible to tell. Sometimes I see map is not good as it seems after 15 runs, sometimes I see it after 25 runs. It would be ideal to do at least 50 (or 100 if possible) test runs to determine how good map is cause some maps can remain "bad" for over 30 runs, and rest 70 runs be great. Bosspack number vary as you know. However I tend to believe fantastic maps can't sux for more than a 10 runs.
When you do test your map, pay close attention on areas where bosspack spawn. It is not important to visit ALL areas on map where bosspacks spawn. On every single map I skip 2-3 areas where boss spawns once in 10 or even 30 runs. If it takes time to check that area, then it is very possible it's not worth it and is better just to entirely skip it. It is very important to know your map well to know what is your best teleporting path on it. You can improve efficiency with over 10% just by skipping areas where bosspacks rarely spawn, and you lose too much time checking it every run for nothing.
Summary is, most important thing on map is seconds/bosspack ratio. It takes time to determine is map good or not that way, but is only way to do it, unless you have great evaluation based on experience. Sometimes I rolled map that looked great, and after measuring that ratio it turned out only good, not great.
Also, fair note. Bigger average bosspack number usually means better seconds/bosspack ratio, but not always. For example, I had 7.5 bosspack map on my poison nec, and he was way more efficient on map with 6.5. Not all maps are suitable for all characters. Poison necro prefers maps where bosspacks spawn at one place, preferably in devilkin nest, but pit berserker prefers map with Well and hates map where bosspacks spawn in devilkin nest. So, seconds/bosspack will determine what map is great, not her shape or average bosspack number.
If you want to find some godly map, expect to spend hours and hours rerolling maps to get it. Decent map on the other hand is easier to find.
First of all, ideal is to find Pit entrance that is as close as possible to Outer Cloister. Note that it can be just a little further if you can easily reach it with teleporting trick when you open character screen. I saw some players have map where Pit entrance is close to Black Marsh waypoint, so you can try that too if you want.
When it comes to Pit itself, there are few tips how to find good map. You want map which is small and has as many bosspacks on it as possible. Easiest way is to see what is Pit 2 level like, there you can find map where 3 bosses spawn frequently and 4 bosses sometimes. Good Pit 2 means Pit 1 can have less bosses to still maintain good average number of bosspacks. But that is not a rule, just a tip. I have good map with average Pit 2 just because Pit 1 is great, but it's very likely that difference between great and fantastic map is in Pit 2 area. It is a big deal if you have 2.8 bosspacks average there instead of, let's say, 2.2.
In the end, you want map that provides good average of both Pit 1 and Pit 2.
When it comes to map shapes, they are not crucial, but are often very important. You don't wanna map where you have dead ends and need to return back to cover common areas where bosspacks spawn. However this doesn't mean that map where you need to do that is not good. I had pretty good Pit map where I had quite large dead end and have to teleport back a bit, but doesn't matter cause common bosspacks there covered time lost. But, in general you want as few as possible dead ends on map, mostly trying to avoid them if you can. Please note that dead ends I talk about are those where bosspacks frequently spawn. On many maps you have big dead end where bosspacks don't spawn at all, you will naturally skip those.
Also, map with good shape is desirable so you can run it easily without map turned on. But it's not really important, you can get used to anything with good amount of running. So, you asked do I look for certain shape map? I don't, most important thing which defines good map is seconds/bosspack ratio. The lower, the better. This is what I look for and it doesn't matter do i have dead ends on map or is map bad shape as long as this ratio is great.
Now, harder part of searching for good map. It is good idea to run map 3-4 times to see is it potentially good or not before rerolling. It really comes down to experience to determine what can be potentially good map, but it's not hard. If you find map you can run considerably fast and has many bosspacks, you found potentially good map. In 10-20 runs you will see does map fit in. Sometimes you will find map that has many bosspacks first few runs, and then it starts to sux.
Next step when you find something that seems fine, you have to measure your running times and count bosspacks as you run. That will give you seconds/bosspack ratio you care about. How many runs? Impossible to tell. Sometimes I see map is not good as it seems after 15 runs, sometimes I see it after 25 runs. It would be ideal to do at least 50 (or 100 if possible) test runs to determine how good map is cause some maps can remain "bad" for over 30 runs, and rest 70 runs be great. Bosspack number vary as you know. However I tend to believe fantastic maps can't sux for more than a 10 runs.
When you do test your map, pay close attention on areas where bosspack spawn. It is not important to visit ALL areas on map where bosspacks spawn. On every single map I skip 2-3 areas where boss spawns once in 10 or even 30 runs. If it takes time to check that area, then it is very possible it's not worth it and is better just to entirely skip it. It is very important to know your map well to know what is your best teleporting path on it. You can improve efficiency with over 10% just by skipping areas where bosspacks rarely spawn, and you lose too much time checking it every run for nothing.
Summary is, most important thing on map is seconds/bosspack ratio. It takes time to determine is map good or not that way, but is only way to do it, unless you have great evaluation based on experience. Sometimes I rolled map that looked great, and after measuring that ratio it turned out only good, not great.
Also, fair note. Bigger average bosspack number usually means better seconds/bosspack ratio, but not always. For example, I had 7.5 bosspack map on my poison nec, and he was way more efficient on map with 6.5. Not all maps are suitable for all characters. Poison necro prefers maps where bosspacks spawn at one place, preferably in devilkin nest, but pit berserker prefers map with Well and hates map where bosspacks spawn in devilkin nest. So, seconds/bosspack will determine what map is great, not her shape or average bosspack number.
If you want to find some godly map, expect to spend hours and hours rerolling maps to get it. Decent map on the other hand is easier to find.
So, I can't tell you is your map good enough or not, do tests as described to determine that. From the first look, your map can be very good if your average bosspack count is high enough. Test your efficiency, determine average bosspack count.
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Antikrister
New member
Hey, thanks for the guide. It's a big motivation for me!
Am currently running travincal with a barb to farm for the runes... We'll see if I ever get there. xD
Am currently running travincal with a barb to farm for the runes... We'll see if I ever get there. xD
How would that build look for 1.12 vanilla players(no zod, no cham)? Something like this comes to my mind:
Beast BA/Runemaster(on budget) or Beast BA/Eternity Ettin Axe - Runemaster can go up to 280avg dmg with 5x40ed jewels, Eternity up to 300-310avg dmg
2xWizardspike on switch - I guess mana will be a problem even with them
Shako - nice mana boost
Enigma - 15%dmg taken goes to mana
LoH - 3 of 4 monster types in pits are demons, 20ias needed for 9frames per attack
War Traveler - nice dmg and mf
Tal Belt - 37%dmg taken goes to mana, this could make that build possible
Amulet 5+%FCR 2barb skills
2xNagelring
Cannot be frozen on weapon could be bad with all that switching. Kira or Trang belt will be alternatives in that case.
Any advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Beast BA/Runemaster(on budget) or Beast BA/Eternity Ettin Axe - Runemaster can go up to 280avg dmg with 5x40ed jewels, Eternity up to 300-310avg dmg
2xWizardspike on switch - I guess mana will be a problem even with them
Shako - nice mana boost
Enigma - 15%dmg taken goes to mana
LoH - 3 of 4 monster types in pits are demons, 20ias needed for 9frames per attack
War Traveler - nice dmg and mf
Tal Belt - 37%dmg taken goes to mana, this could make that build possible
Amulet 5+%FCR 2barb skills
2xNagelring
Cannot be frozen on weapon could be bad with all that switching. Kira or Trang belt will be alternatives in that case.
Any advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
endlesscircuit
New member
Your 'budget' is 5x 40ed jewels?Without Insight, you should check out zgpmf's Pit Zerker who used an Act 1 merc with Faith - obviously you don't have Faith either, but Beast can work, and he solved mana problems effectively (if I remember right) with HotOs/SoJs/Arachnid Mesh (+mana, +skills to lower teleport cost). I can't find the link to where he discussed his Pit runner but here's the build he used for Pindle: http://www.purediablo.com/forums/sh...2012-Edition&p=8418445&viewfull=1#post8418445. CBF on weapon is inferior but playable, better than Raven Frost in my experience.
CBF on weapon is not playable, as you will get frozen when you're on the caster switch.
At first glance that looks reasonable to me Victus. I don't know what the highest damage weapon is, if you say it's Eternity I'll take your word for it. Beyond that, I'd be looking at Trang's Belt for the CBF, and probably use SoJ(s) over Nagelring maybe? Serpent's SC of Good Luck might be your best friend too if you have a couple.
At first glance that looks reasonable to me Victus. I don't know what the highest damage weapon is, if you say it's Eternity I'll take your word for it. Beyond that, I'd be looking at Trang's Belt for the CBF, and probably use SoJ(s) over Nagelring maybe? Serpent's SC of Good Luck might be your best friend too if you have a couple.
My budget is Jah, 2Ber, Sur, 2Vex, 4Ist. One more ber is needed for Eternity. +% to maximum mana is kinda bad for barbarian(only 1mana/lvl, so about 100mana at lvl90). Maybe with some serpent small charm (I have five of these with 6-7mf on my blizzsorc) to boost the base mana it can be viable.
Botd is much better than Eternity but beyond reach in 1.12. The Grandfather looks really good too - up to 300avg dmg with 40ed jewel but no bonus from axe mastery. Interestingly Death Cleaver deals slightly lower dmg than Runemaster after crit with just 200avg weapon dmg.
Botd is much better than Eternity but beyond reach in 1.12. The Grandfather looks really good too - up to 300avg dmg with 40ed jewel but no bonus from axe mastery. Interestingly Death Cleaver deals slightly lower dmg than Runemaster after crit with just 200avg weapon dmg.
We play the same game... and yet we don't. Most of the gear you listed is so far from what I consider basic and straightforward, I don't even know where to begin. Gotta love D2
All that aside, very awesome write-up. I've always enjoyed the Berserk barb, and you have established him well as a great item finder. It inspires me to make one. The Find Item skill alone has such potential to make them more efficient magic-finders than any other class.
Just reached lvl30 and realized that Berserk is only a single weapon attack.
onder: That makes 40% IAS from Beast BA useless because it's not the primary weapon any longer. So now I have to add IAS in sockets/equipment or go for Beast Elite Hammer/2h Axe. Things got complicated again. Is 9fpa mandatory or 11/12 with higher dmg could work as well? Beast on Thunder Maul deals damage close to Grief PB. That should one-hit kill some champions/uniques and two-hit kill most of them. Or going for Eternity Eth Thunder Maul and one-hit kill everything on average dmg. So many options...:scratchchin:
onder: That makes 40% IAS from Beast BA useless because it's not the primary weapon any longer. So now I have to add IAS in sockets/equipment or go for Beast Elite Hammer/2h Axe. Things got complicated again. Is 9fpa mandatory or 11/12 with higher dmg could work as well? Beast on Thunder Maul deals damage close to Grief PB. That should one-hit kill some champions/uniques and two-hit kill most of them. Or going for Eternity Eth Thunder Maul and one-hit kill everything on average dmg. So many options...:scratchchin:
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