99 theorycrafting and stuff like that
- Thread starter zgpmf
- Start date
- Jun 7, 2009
- 4,142
- 47
- 48
@BBS_Agonistes why are you rinning baal at p8?
P8 waves P3 Ball is standard because xp is capped in Baal.
P8 waves P3 Ball is standard because xp is capped in Baal.
I have never been able to run Baal with even waves @ 8 on any of my characters so I didn't know the standard. That makes sense.
@frozzzen Awesome video, and the nova looks really effective!
So now I'm quite ashamed to post my video after froz's, since his "sloppy" playing makes mine look I was drunk out of my mind while playing! I just stayed in bear form the entire time instead of shifting in and out and using teleport.
But here it is. As nulio pointed out, I ran both waves and Baal @ p8, so that was silly, and reveals my inexperience.
So, this video doesn't really demonstrate anything at all about speed, but it does show that the set up I used was fairly safe even without max block, despite my bad playing. Like I said, no potions were used for character, and only 2 for merc I think? So usually I can't even run Baal on most characters at anything over p3. I'm sure if an adept player used the same gear, he could have a quite good time. Get ready to cringe!
[youtube]aLipNkK_lEs[/youtube]
Sorry for terrible video quality; I edited the video on my terrible laptop.
So now I'm quite ashamed to post my video after froz's, since his "sloppy" playing makes mine look I was drunk out of my mind while playing! I just stayed in bear form the entire time instead of shifting in and out and using teleport.
But here it is. As nulio pointed out, I ran both waves and Baal @ p8, so that was silly, and reveals my inexperience.
So, this video doesn't really demonstrate anything at all about speed, but it does show that the set up I used was fairly safe even without max block, despite my bad playing. Like I said, no potions were used for character, and only 2 for merc I think? So usually I can't even run Baal on most characters at anything over p3. I'm sure if an adept player used the same gear, he could have a quite good time. Get ready to cringe!
[youtube]aLipNkK_lEs[/youtube]
Sorry for terrible video quality; I edited the video on my terrible laptop.
Don't listen to Froz. Everyone eventually learns that Froz is realistic only at evaluating someone else's playing, while when he evaluates his own playing, that is either "bad" or "sloppy" or "crappy" or "terrible" or pick up any similar word.
Allow me to tell you his playing on video was very good. Not perfect obviously, but very good. So don't feel bad or drunk!
Allow me to tell you his playing on video was very good. Not perfect obviously, but very good. So don't feel bad or drunk!
Haha, I know you guys are crazy good players, so I don't feel too bad. But at least the video shows the gear can take quite a beating. 
I also forgot to mention that I didn't try the max block build, though I have the equipment, I didn't want to respec to try it. I'm sure it's quite good defensively.
I also forgot to mention that I didn't try the max block build, though I have the equipment, I didn't want to respec to try it. I'm sure it's quite good defensively.
Shrug. Your sorc is MUCH safer than I expected. tbh I didn't expect vita sorc would stand longer than second after being lister drop'd on top of her head.
I can definitively see advantages of going vita, and if she is safe as she is in video (I'm still not completely sold on it) then I'd probably have to conclude that vita option is better in the end. 20% ctc confuse when struck from dreams will help your merc keeping stuff confused, while maxblock can't rely on that because block prevents you being struck. And obviously, more attacks because no interruptions by block. Also higher damage because more skills out of armor.
I ended up doing some math on sorc and she would end up with 6686 life in bear form with my gear in vita setup. Or ~4500 with plain charms. Should be safe enough anyway, and inventory could be filled with frw sparkling charms and frw/resists or ar scs. Still can't figure out optimal setup because of attack rating problems (or they at least look like problems to me).
BBS don't worry about your video. They are clearly two completely different playstyles. Vita vs block, 100% bear vs shifting back and so on. For all we know, LC might intend to remain bear for whole time and your video would be more useful then. If you would use reshift and p3 Baal I'm sure you would cut your run time by 30-40 sec and it would be comparable to my sorc. Also I think I learned a lot from your vid about vita setup and ctc confuse from dreams on striking, of viability of life tap with lowish damage weapon (which I completely forgot), so don't worry, your video definitively served its purpose
One question only, how much attack rating you have? I ended up having 4500, but I don't know if I'd go much lower than that.
And grip, I never said my video was "bad" or "crappy" or "terrible". I said it was sloppy. And I stand by it. I ate decrep on waves 4/5 even when I clearly wanted to stay outside its casting range, got caught in random thought process on wave 2 before figuring out that I can reshift and nova running mages, didn't target bosses to allow wave overlap (you can see in BBS's vid how he does it, especially between waves 2/3 and 4/5) etc. I know why I wrote it that way better than anyone. And I don't think it was bad play, just a bit sloppy.
I can definitively see advantages of going vita, and if she is safe as she is in video (I'm still not completely sold on it) then I'd probably have to conclude that vita option is better in the end. 20% ctc confuse when struck from dreams will help your merc keeping stuff confused, while maxblock can't rely on that because block prevents you being struck. And obviously, more attacks because no interruptions by block. Also higher damage because more skills out of armor.
I ended up doing some math on sorc and she would end up with 6686 life in bear form with my gear in vita setup. Or ~4500 with plain charms. Should be safe enough anyway, and inventory could be filled with frw sparkling charms and frw/resists or ar scs. Still can't figure out optimal setup because of attack rating problems (or they at least look like problems to me).
BBS don't worry about your video. They are clearly two completely different playstyles. Vita vs block, 100% bear vs shifting back and so on. For all we know, LC might intend to remain bear for whole time and your video would be more useful then. If you would use reshift and p3 Baal I'm sure you would cut your run time by 30-40 sec and it would be comparable to my sorc. Also I think I learned a lot from your vid about vita setup and ctc confuse from dreams on striking, of viability of life tap with lowish damage weapon (which I completely forgot), so don't worry, your video definitively served its purpose
One question only, how much attack rating you have? I ended up having 4500, but I don't know if I'd go much lower than that.
And grip, I never said my video was "bad" or "crappy" or "terrible". I said it was sloppy. And I stand by it. I ate decrep on waves 4/5 even when I clearly wanted to stay outside its casting range, got caught in random thought process on wave 2 before figuring out that I can reshift and nova running mages, didn't target bosses to allow wave overlap (you can see in BBS's vid how he does it, especially between waves 2/3 and 4/5) etc. I know why I wrote it that way better than anyone. And I don't think it was bad play, just a bit sloppy.
Actually BBS i like your vid better. Froz should know he was playing a bearsorc and not a nova sorc. Sure it may be faster this way but it completely beats the purpose of playing like a bear/melee char.
Froz should know he was playing a bearsorc and not a nova sorc. Sure it may be faster this way but it completely beats the purpose of playing like a bear/melee char.~6700 life or anything near that would be crazy. I will have to try that set up. I think I have most of the gear.
As far as attack rating, I'm not sure with that set up, but it was close to what I used in my Mat thread, and there the AR is ~2700. Whenever I have Infinity on merc, I completely forget about AR altogether, which is probably bad. I should do calculations on the chance to hit against monsters in the Baal runs.
Actually, shifting between Bear form and human is really efficient, and I did it a lot. I did pit runs to level up my sorc, and I stayed in human form the entire time for the most part. Most thinks die so quickly that the faster attack speed doesn't make up for the loss of teleport.
Ultimately, I was really surprised at the effectiveness of life tap. I always assumed it would be nice to have when it proc-ed, but not something to rely on. But it seems I could rely on it, at least in this context.
As far as attack rating, I'm not sure with that set up, but it was close to what I used in my Mat thread, and there the AR is ~2700. Whenever I have Infinity on merc, I completely forget about AR altogether, which is probably bad. I should do calculations on the chance to hit against monsters in the Baal runs.
Actually, shifting between Bear form and human is really efficient, and I did it a lot. I did pit runs to level up my sorc, and I stayed in human form the entire time for the most part. Most thinks die so quickly that the faster attack speed doesn't make up for the loss of teleport.
Ultimately, I was really surprised at the effectiveness of life tap. I always assumed it would be nice to have when it proc-ed, but not something to rely on. But it seems I could rely on it, at least in this context.
LiquidClear
Member
- Mar 16, 2006
- 486
- 19
- 18
@BBS_Agonistes Thanks for posting that video. (and Frozzzen as well ) I've made my bearsorc now and she's up to level 88, kicking a solid amount of ass. She works well, but my biggest concern so far is her durability in a sense. She doesn't struggle killing groups necessarily, but she doesn't have a solid way of regaining life other than potions, even with 20% life leech, so I end up using purples more frequently than they drop. Massive nuisance.
I had never really given Dracs a fair chance as an option for gloves. I figured the 5% ctc was too low for something to be depended on, but for this char I think it might actually work really well, as seen in your video. When I ran Baal I kind of had to do the thing where you fall back, pick one of the minions off before the rest swarm you, drop back, do it again, rinse, repeat, etc. Right now I'm using IK gloves because I forgot about Gris Caddy having an actual Dex requirement and I haven't acquired the 1.07 LoH yet.
My merc has also proven to be a giant pansy so far. Admittedly his gear is substandard at the moment (1.13 Vamp Gaze, Infinity, unsocketed Duriel's Shell) but he has a tendency to drop like a fly in any intense fight. I'm hoping leveling up will help him out some, but obviously I also need to tweak him gear wise.
My other problem has been large groups of missile damage monsters, IE witches and gloams. I haven't fixed my resistances all the way yet (lightning only 60 iirc) but I do have some MDR from SoE. But the throne had gloams and I had to play peek-a-boo to get them to come one by one because 5 shots of lightning simultaneously would've fried me before I got close enough to take care of business. It actually had me considering swapping my BKWB for a Wisp Projector to see if it made a difference lol.
I'm also still unsure about boots. I've been using Aldurs basically just for the 40 frw, but the life/fire res aren't bad mods. I was thinking about trying to craft some boots with 30 frw, 10 fhr and other good mods, maybe safety or blood boots; I think we all know I have plenty of the crafting materials... Sandstorms and Shadow Dancers provide nice FHR, but I'm not in love with the other mods. So we'll see.
I've also got 13 unused skill points at this point. I did put one in the first frozen armor, but I haven't really thought too hard about which of the others to invest in. With all the mana burners and my small mana pool, I've pretty much decided ES wouldn't be worth it. Maybe I'll dump points in cold mastery to enhance the 15-45 damage from my Ravenfrost.
EDIT: oh, and my AR is about 2400. It definitely feels like it could use a boost; my Raven has 250 on it, but my charms are definitely lacking. So I imagine I'll be looking for steel sc's of balance.
Long story short: Experimentation and item acquisition still needed, but character very fun to play. Going to try and get her to 90 in the pits, unless I get bored and run to do baal before then.
) I've made my bearsorc now and she's up to level 88, kicking a solid amount of ass. She works well, but my biggest concern so far is her durability in a sense. She doesn't struggle killing groups necessarily, but she doesn't have a solid way of regaining life other than potions, even with 20% life leech, so I end up using purples more frequently than they drop. Massive nuisance.I had never really given Dracs a fair chance as an option for gloves. I figured the 5% ctc was too low for something to be depended on, but for this char I think it might actually work really well, as seen in your video. When I ran Baal I kind of had to do the thing where you fall back, pick one of the minions off before the rest swarm you, drop back, do it again, rinse, repeat, etc. Right now I'm using IK gloves because I forgot about Gris Caddy having an actual Dex requirement and I haven't acquired the 1.07 LoH yet.
My merc has also proven to be a giant pansy so far. Admittedly his gear is substandard at the moment (1.13 Vamp Gaze, Infinity, unsocketed Duriel's Shell) but he has a tendency to drop like a fly in any intense fight. I'm hoping leveling up will help him out some, but obviously I also need to tweak him gear wise.
My other problem has been large groups of missile damage monsters, IE witches and gloams. I haven't fixed my resistances all the way yet (lightning only 60 iirc) but I do have some MDR from SoE. But the throne had gloams and I had to play peek-a-boo to get them to come one by one because 5 shots of lightning simultaneously would've fried me before I got close enough to take care of business. It actually had me considering swapping my BKWB for a Wisp Projector to see if it made a difference lol.
I'm also still unsure about boots. I've been using Aldurs basically just for the 40 frw, but the life/fire res aren't bad mods. I was thinking about trying to craft some boots with 30 frw, 10 fhr and other good mods, maybe safety or blood boots; I think we all know I have plenty of the crafting materials... Sandstorms and Shadow Dancers provide nice FHR, but I'm not in love with the other mods. So we'll see.
I've also got 13 unused skill points at this point. I did put one in the first frozen armor, but I haven't really thought too hard about which of the others to invest in. With all the mana burners and my small mana pool, I've pretty much decided ES wouldn't be worth it. Maybe I'll dump points in cold mastery to enhance the 15-45 damage from my Ravenfrost.
EDIT: oh, and my AR is about 2400. It definitely feels like it could use a boost; my Raven has 250 on it, but my charms are definitely lacking. So I imagine I'll be looking for steel sc's of balance.
Long story short: Experimentation and item acquisition still needed, but character very fun to play.
Going to try and get her to 90 in the pits, unless I get bored and run to do baal before then.
Last edited:
To me, Pits were actually a little more dangerous than Baal because of scary archer boss packs that would all slam me at once. With Baal and the waves, you at least know what to expect for the most part.
At this point, I wouldn't use any gloves over Drac's for my vitality set up just because they made such a dramatic difference in survivability. Before, the character was strong, but I couldn't play as aggressively as I wanted to. With Drac's, the more aggressive play is actually a plus. For Baal waves, when you are pretty much attacking nonstop, the Life Tap spawns pretty predictably. Since the character is at 5 FPA / 5 FPS, wouldn't it proc every 4 seconds or so with a constant attack? I'm not sure exactly how the proc works, but yes, it seems to eliminate the main problem you had, which I also experienced before switching to Drac's.
I felt the 87% FHR breakpoint really helped me out, so I have a lot of 5% SCs to help me get there. That's one plus of the 1.07 Arkaine's set up.
I think your set up was exactly what I used before I could equip Andariel's. After that I used Andariel's / Duriel's / Infinity on the merc. I saw froz's suggestion to switch to Delirium (beta preferable), and I wasn't certain since that would leave the Merc with no leech. But I made the switch to non-beta Delirium, and it actually worked better to my surprise. I still have to make sure he's BOed all the time, and I'm screwed if he dies because I start killing half as fast.
At this point, I wouldn't use any gloves over Drac's for my vitality set up just because they made such a dramatic difference in survivability. Before, the character was strong, but I couldn't play as aggressively as I wanted to. With Drac's, the more aggressive play is actually a plus. For Baal waves, when you are pretty much attacking nonstop, the Life Tap spawns pretty predictably. Since the character is at 5 FPA / 5 FPS, wouldn't it proc every 4 seconds or so with a constant attack? I'm not sure exactly how the proc works, but yes, it seems to eliminate the main problem you had, which I also experienced before switching to Drac's.
I felt the 87% FHR breakpoint really helped me out, so I have a lot of 5% SCs to help me get there. That's one plus of the 1.07 Arkaine's set up.
I think your set up was exactly what I used before I could equip Andariel's. After that I used Andariel's / Duriel's / Infinity on the merc. I saw froz's suggestion to switch to Delirium (beta preferable), and I wasn't certain since that would leave the Merc with no leech. But I made the switch to non-beta Delirium, and it actually worked better to my surprise. I still have to make sure he's BOed all the time, and I'm screwed if he dies because I start killing half as fast.
LiquidClear
Member
- Mar 16, 2006
- 486
- 19
- 18
So after a little while I decided I'd record a run. It's not good; I still have lots of holes to fix. I wasn't using CTA, my setup emphasizes safety over damage, although my life is still quite low. My merc is very fragile at this point, so much so that I have to hide him behind me on Baal's steps. Anyways, lots of improvement, but here's a run:
Nice! Don't you mean that your life is "still quite high"--not "low"? I mean, for a sorc. Really, the only reason I use CTA is for the merc, Bear form makes it not a necessity at all for the sorc herself.
I need to try recording some runs again with a decent map, waves at p8 and Baal at p3 and see what the time is. I've never really done timed runs of any sort, so it would be interesting.
Really, the only reason I use CTA is for the merc, Bear form makes it not a necessity at all for the sorc herself.I need to try recording some runs again with a decent map, waves at p8 and Baal at p3 and see what the time is. I've never really done timed runs of any sort, so it would be interesting.
Give ideas how to perfect the setup and which class would be best if you can:
helm: Vampire Gaze + ohm rune
shield: stormshield + vex
gloves: venom grip
belt: thundergod's
armor: guardian angel + cham
boots: ?
ring 1: dwarf star
ring 2: nature's peace
weapon: ?
amulet: rare/crafted amulet with 75% poison length reduction
helm: Vampire Gaze + ohm rune
shield: stormshield + vex
gloves: venom grip
belt: thundergod's
armor: guardian angel + cham
boots: ?
ring 1: dwarf star
ring 2: nature's peace
weapon: ?
amulet: rare/crafted amulet with 75% poison length reduction
None really.
You got it backwards. When you are making 99 character you first decide on character then ask for gear. Not other way around.
You got it backwards. When you are making 99 character you first decide on character then ask for gear. Not other way around.
Don't know about best class, but to me no Enigma = either sorc or some shapeshifter. Not sure about shapeshifter either with such equipment. So my guess is sorc of some kind. Even with bad fcr she will outperform anything else with such equipment. Ok, 63 fcr breakpoint still possible, so not terrible fcr breakpoint.
- Apr 8, 2006
- 1,274
- 25
- 48
He didn't say 99(though this is the thread), so I'm going to assume he's trying to make/optimize a toon around his favorite gear pieces. Or if this is going to be a 99'er candidate, I'd make whatever character as optimized as humanly possible to save days, if not weeks, of gameplay grinding.
With that gear though - what about fanat zealot? Charge/vigor somewhat takes the place of enigma/teleport. It's not hurting for +skills, so the gear, maybe not the best fit, should work fine.
How about stormlash as a weapon? Decent damage, fast, CB, and static is gg in pvm. You need to put some ias in it to hit fastest attack speed, no room for non weapon ias in your gear choices.
Gores would be a good idea for boot slot.
A concern would be lack of life leech. You'd be at 13% life, and 8% mana. Mana leech isn't an issue with zeal though. You could max holy shield and defiance synergy, and pray high defense, max PDR%, and max block chance would get you by.
Well that's my initial thoughts anyway. Good luck.
With that gear though - what about fanat zealot? Charge/vigor somewhat takes the place of enigma/teleport. It's not hurting for +skills, so the gear, maybe not the best fit, should work fine.
How about stormlash as a weapon? Decent damage, fast, CB, and static is gg in pvm. You need to put some ias in it to hit fastest attack speed, no room for non weapon ias in your gear choices.
Gores would be a good idea for boot slot.
A concern would be lack of life leech. You'd be at 13% life, and 8% mana. Mana leech isn't an issue with zeal though. You could max holy shield and defiance synergy, and pray high defense, max PDR%, and max block chance would get you by.
Well that's my initial thoughts anyway. Good luck.
That gear sounds to me like an unhealthy obsession with resistances.... For 99% of the game, 75% fire/cold/light will do. For 99.9% of the game, slapping on thundergods aswell will do. For 99.99% of the game, GA will do. With regards to resists, that is. I'd rather have enigma and tele out of danger than 95% all resists (and low physical resist to boot...)
EDIT: Missed the SS. Anyway, as far as survivability goes, you can still be amped, block-locked, convicted... and some attacks are magic damage. Better to move out of harms way, while doing as much harm to the right enemies as possible, as fast as possible.
EDIT: Missed the SS. Anyway, as far as survivability goes, you can still be amped, block-locked, convicted... and some attacks are magic damage. Better to move out of harms way, while doing as much harm to the right enemies as possible, as fast as possible.
Google