Is it time for me to HC yet?

[Ergroilnin]

Welp the thread title may be a little bit misleading.

I always really adored HC chars, even on battle.net way back then. But when I think of starting HC career, I always get scared thinking about all that lost time if I actually do die, not to mention I enjoy playing aggresively and I often play half drunk so being careful in D2 isn't my strongest point.

Still, I do want to try it out for real and to see if I actually do enjoy it since I still have and will play my SC chars for those crazily aggresive builds. So what characters and builds (doesn't matter if cookie cutter or whatever) would you recommend me to try out HC? Oh I forgot to mention that I crave /p8 single pass full clears till hell Baal and I would like to continue that in HC and also that I'm playing 1.12 RWM without any ambition for time travelling or upgrading to 1.13.

 

[pharphis]

dew it.

As for builds that can do p8 single pass full-clears in hell.. it would probably be easiest and most fun as dual tree sorc (merc for physical dmg+poison/open wounds) or some necro hybrid (CE kills most, poison nova/bone spear kills some things, merc kills the rest)

 

[Pb_pal1]

HC is fun!

I also have a pile of SC chars for if I want to be a bit more relaxed, or do some MF'ing to try out some higher-end items without the risk of losing them. This strikes a good balance for me, as it doesn't sting so much if I lose a HC char (though it always will sting...).

As for builds.. Summoner Necro is a very safe and easy one to start with if you want. Between all the meat shields and curses, there is a fair margin for error.

I do have to say though, do consider joining one of the tournaments that are going on right now. I'm participating in (and hosting) a tournament for the first time in my D2 career, and I have to say it's some of the most fun I've ever had playing D2. They are all untwinked, single pass, so it fits right in with your play style. If you play in a tournament, it almost becomes more about the journey than the destination (I found this with all HC chars I've played, just moreso with the tourneys). Not to mention, you've got some other forumites attempting the challenge with you, which I find makes it alot more enjoyable.

No matter what you decide, just make sure you're having fun. That's what this game is about, anyways.
(but yes, listen to pharphis)

 

[Gripphon1]

If you think HC offers you something SC does not, then proceed and try HC. I would say it's as simple as that. Even I almost pure SC player tried HC to see does it offer anything different than SC.

 

[pharphis]

If you think HC offers you something SC does not, then proceed and try HC. I would say it's as simple as that. Even I almost pure SC player tried HC to see does it offer anything different than SC.

and you realized it offers you the chance to trade the HC players for their (rare) hax items

 

[TheNix]

In many ways HC play is a start of mind thing. Like you, I tend to play insanely aggressively and I get great pleasure going into a fight that I know I cannot win and giving it a go. Hell, on occasions I actually do win and it's a buzz. I've got a Guardian, Champion and a Slayer under my belt and I hated every minute of it. Having to curb my preferred playing style was such a drag that I gave away all my HC gear and deleted all my character except my Guardian. If you are capable of keeping your instincts (and your alcohol addled brain) under control you might find it fun, I couldn't and rage quitted out of sheer boredom/frustration.

 

[Drystan1]

Give it a go. I can't play SC because I get a thrill with the risk, with the potential to lose.
I play Median XL, which almost guarentees a death as there are quite a number of insta-kills, or very close to. I trialed a few SC characters, and feel they don't mean anything to me. I run into something too aggressively, and die. I run back, get the corpse, charge forward, and die to something else. I enjoy that penalty, the fact that you can "lose", whereas others look at it as the lost character, equipment, and time building it ("scared thinking about all that lost time if I actually do die"). I

I ran through Unreal (1999'ish,) recently, and found that same mindset with the Quick Save feature. The game became too easy, as whenever I took damage, whenever I wasted ammo, whenever I went somewhere I didn't need to, I'd just Quick Load and redo the fight (SC mode.) It was fun, but the challenge for survival wasn't there. The challenge was purely to waste as little ammo and health as possible, and if I didn't meet that, I'd Quick Load.
The way that I feel the game should be played is with a HC mindset, which to me is far more immersive. If a fight doesn't go well, too bad; don't Quick Load. If you die, start the level again. But because the Quick Save/Load was a feature, I abused it, and I knew it too.
It was still fun, but I found it less immersive, less challenging, since I knew there was no penalty for a mistake, and that I had already won.

That penalty, that risk, I enjoy. If you think about the "lost time and gear," the HC mindset may not be for you, which is completely fine. It's just people enjoy different types of challenges, some more casual and relaxing, others risky, others which self-impose challenges, others with a risk of a Lose/Death, others speed running.
Give each a chance, and enjoy different aspects, but if you enjoy a more relaxing playstyle, you can always go back to that. Have fun!

 

[japanzaman]

In terms of losing, I guess it depends on how you look at it. If you enjoy the challenge and tension of playing hardcore, dying doesn't mean that it was a waste of time. In fact, to think you won't die is actually kind of ridiculous- even the best HC players bite the dust from time to time. More than likely, your first attempt won't be successful regardless of what build you use or player setting. That's also part of the fun. Dying won't take away the fun that comes with the tension of a narrow escape or watching your planning result in pure pwnage of a boss. It's actually quite addicting. I've pretty much given up softcore because of it, even when it occasionally results in the devastating loss.

 

[Gripphon1]

There is one big problem with HC though. Risk of losing everything, ok ok. Problem with HC is actually problem with probabilities. You can make super safe nearly unkillable character that will cruise through any challenges. BUT! Once in a while you will have to face a super rare and devastating event. Something like you have max block, 50% DR, 10k defense, you tele near random fanaticism pack and ALL minions manage to strike you through both defense and max block at once, and with critical hit too. You will die, your super safe character will melt away instantly even if you didn't lose more than 30% HP for months.

You could reduce such events with very careful playing, but still they will come to you and you will experience them. I died with my CS paladin (SC luckily) on such event when minions simply managed to strike me all at once through everything and I had curse on me. I just died, and in 99% time I don't even lose HP when running CS. That are those rare events that do happen. And that is what bothers me with playing HC. You can play very good and very clean, and then bam, random super event like that and you just die, all those hours of work melt away. I could handle to die to bad playing, not pressing potion for 5 seconds when losing HP and such stuff, but when something can kill me instantly, and usually that same things barely damage me... Be prepared for it if you choose to play HC.

 

[pharphis]

I know a little something about 1% scenarios (also what are rejuvs?)

 

[jiansonz]

Nasty.

I say you were distracted by having the skills screen up.



My take on HC is that you must enjoy the whole journey the character has, and focus on that. Then it can never be 'wasted' time if the character should eventually die.

 

[pharphis]

Nasty.

I say you were distracted by having the skills screen up.



My take on HC is that you must enjoy the whole journey the character has, and focus on that. Then it can never be 'wasted' time if the character should eventually die.

Ya, I was using it to teleport farther but messed up and didn't expect a handful of lucky hits (+ fanat boost) to finish me off. I had already done this about 8000 times, after all... you can see me drop ~1k life in 1 frame iirc
Stupid golem + merc not taking any hits for me

 

[Jcakes1]

I know a little something about 1% scenarios (also what are rejuvs?)

Yeah pharphis knows a thing or two about deeds

 

[TheNix]

If you discount the time I forgot to pause the game when I went to answer the phone, I've only deeded once playing Diablo and that was a DH in D3. Admittedly I've not played much HC, it really wasn't my bag.

 

[pharphis]

If you discount the time I forgot to pause the game when I went to answer the phone, I've only deeded once playing Diablo and that was a DH in D3. Admittedly I've not played much HC, it really wasn't my bag.

I lost a javazon to normal pindle by killing him (revived monsters...) and not pausing to go make food or something...

 

[TheNix]

I was in Normal Den of Evil, I'd only been playing a few minutes.

 

[Jcakes1]

If you discount the time I forgot to pause the game when I went to answer the phone, I've only deeded once playing Diablo and that was a DH in D3. Admittedly I've not played much HC, it really wasn't my bag.

I've deeded four times in D3, three times due to d/c. Once was very painful, knew I was going to die but survived for almost 30 seconds running away. D2 not sure how many deeds

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Its always a good time to play HC mode! Starting out pick something safe but effective, mostly caster builds that aren't gear dependent will work. Fishymancer, TrapSin, WarCry Barb all provide a decent amount of safety. Sorcs are faster but are more fragile.

I've made 15 guardians, deeded 3 of them, two blizz sorcs (both in the throne room) and a rift kicker assassin (in the chaos sanctuary).

Characters that didn't make it to guardian I've deeded 2 of. Fire Hunter druid to De Seis in the Hell Chaos Sanctuary, and a fire sorc to Normal Lister.

Deeds suck, but you move on. Phar does it all the time, I mean seriously.

 

[Noodle]

I'll throw a purely hypothetical situation at you -

Say you have an HC Meteorb, whom you've guardianed. Say you're running Hell Baal with, oh, say Pyro one night. Burning Souls abound, but for no logical reason you decide you can probably just tank them. You wade through a sea of lightning, managing to swallow a fat purple just in time to save your life. Pyro asks you what the hell you're doing playing like that. A lot of people would take this as a sign that perhaps it would be prudent to listen to reason and slow things down a bit. Fight this urge. You are on literally your last game of the night, when you see more Burning Souls.

There are a couple ways you can go here - you can play it safe and pick them off one by one. You can rely on Pyro for assistance - regardless of what Pharphis, CDM and so, so many others say, he's actually got some skill. Or you can just charge in recklessly, immediately deed, and go start an HC javazon to show to the world that you refuse to learn from your mistakes. This last route is known as the "Noodle Approach", and I recommend it highly.

Half the fun for me is deeding in completely ridiculous ways and laughing at myself. That javazon I started to replace my sorc is now a guardian, by the way, and my next HC char (fana zealot) is currently running NM Andy.

Just my two cents.

 

[Drystan1]

Completely hypothetical. Gotcha!
I wish I could've joined you guys in HCMP. I'd would've liked to join you in that Noodle Approach, and we could restart at the same time. Win win!

I think deeding to a disconnect might bother me - just something that you simply couldn't control. Even lag / lag spikes, you have some control over. If you're getting lag, and you teleport blind or run in aggressively, that's playstyle. A d/c (mainly server side,) can be unpredictable if the servers aren't stable or at max capacity.