Blizzard is non-cookiecutter? :badteeth: It's faster in AT than lightning sorceress is in Pit, but slower for Baal. Not sure about CS, but it's supposedly very good there. Just need a strong mercenary to take out Lord de Seis.
99 theorycrafting and stuff like that
- Thread starter zgpmf
- Start date
I meant crowd control by CC. I was referring to all the curses
Also, thanks
The FoHer is dead, though, so maybe that's why?
As for further improvements on what he was, there's always a better map out there, ofc, and better charm sets. Still, it was a very fun character! With some training (a few hours) I found I was able to time holy bolts in between FoHs quite well, but the real trick is trying to not hit the merc with them :/
Still, blizz sorc is more efficient though easier to die with, but I never had a great map or gear with my blizzeh. Also the AT conc barb that kimppi has a video of looks most efficient (for tyrael's).
What do people kill nihl with as an assassin?
Also, thanks
The FoHer is dead, though, so maybe that's why?
As for further improvements on what he was, there's always a better map out there, ofc, and better charm sets. Still, it was a very fun character! With some training (a few hours) I found I was able to time holy bolts in between FoHs quite well, but the real trick is trying to not hit the merc with them :/
Still, blizz sorc is more efficient though easier to die with, but I never had a great map or gear with my blizzeh. Also the AT conc barb that kimppi has a video of looks most efficient (for tyrael's).
What do people kill nihl with as an assassin?
I was thinking about this the other day - and it's something that got this thread started - about a high slvl D-Talon (7/2... kicks (slvl/6, rounded down +1 = # of kicks), lots of CB, teleport/DFlight on to him and kick to death. Cloak for CC, merc /w Reaper's to boost damage, 10x MA skillers. Fade + claw block protects against CE, etc.
OK - looking at this again, assuming you get to clvl 98.
Important breakpoints:
FBR: 0/13/32
FCR: 0/8/16/27/42/65/102
FHR: 0/7/15/27/48/86
Stormlash /w Shael (33% CB; 50% IAS) (95% IAS needed for 7/3 kicks)
Stormshield /w IAS jewel
G-Face (35% CB) /w IAS jewel
Enigma
20% IAS/10% CB/+2 MA crafted blood gloves
Arach's
Gores, up'd (15% CB; 156 STR req'd)
Raven
Dual leech ring /w FCR
+2 Assy ammy /w at least 15% FCR
CtA/Spirit
8x MA skillers, 4x /w FHR
12x life/mana sc's
Might Merc:
Delerium
G-Bane, IAS jewel
Reaper's, IAS jewel/shael
20 D Talon - 1 point in Fade/MB/BS/Cloak - least amount of skills for clvl 99 needed?
slvl 36 D-Talon (7 kicks), 93% CB, 50% PDR, 45%+ FCR (11 frame; 65%+ for 10 frame on switch), 48% FHR (5 frame) with above setup.
Very simplistic, but could it work as a single-target killer?
Damage is with might shown and above setup (gloves lack CB, so 83% there) and no small charms (hence the terrible res). I think this is viable, is reasonably quick (45 seconds/run or so) and is safe enough /w Delirium, Reaper's and CS to deal with anything Nihl can throw at him. LE is difficult, though b/c no Static.
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If 2:30 is the best you can pull off with a top of the line CS build like hammerdin/light sorc then there's a lot of room for improvement. The hammerdin in particular can easily gain as much exp per hour in CS as he can running Nihlathak on level 98.
Would that be just seals and Diablo himself? I've not timed my runs for some time, but I kill every boss pack (river included) and do it on P8, so I imagine that my time would sound horrific to somebody who focuses entirely on the experience. Once I complete my grail (maybe I will hit 99 first^^) I will do just seals and Diablo I think. I save experience shrines, one beside Diablo's spawn and one at the RoF WP - very worth it. I sometimes save one as I come into CS too, but I'm not 100% convinced that it is time efficient.
That's something I would like to be disussed some more, too. Even though 98-99 is obviously the hardest push.
So, I would like to hear people's opinion what are the most efficient/fun/etc. builds that can make it to lvl 98 in AT/Pits. After achieving that 98 I would switch to Nihl/Baal/CS depending on char. I'm now debating myself whether to continue running AT with my blizz sorc, which have made it to 96 with /p1. I think I could higher psettings and drop in some more killing power to maintain ok run times.
Blizz is my take nr one because I believe I can still carry decent amount of MF as I'm after Grail, that's why I would like to involve some MF. But... I'm open for all kinds of suggestions which could make it to 98 carrying at least some MF =) Pit poison nec sounds quite obvious choice for high psettings and high mf. I don't know what would I run nec from 98-99 though.
Some other builds I've considered to try with high players settings and some mf are trap assassin and javazon. I think they should do fairly well in Pit. Any other takes, ideas, what ever on this subject?
Javazon /w Infinity merc from what I've seen is even faster that a Lightning sorc at Baal runs. Not much fun tho... Spam Fury, CS Baal, repeat.
For sorcs the obvious choice for a 99 runner is a Lightning sorc /w Infinity merc. Blova (kills 2nd wave's skellies faster than a Blizzballer in my experience) with high-end equipment is almost as powerful at Baal runs. Pure Blizzard in AT until 98 then CS runs 98-99 would be my personal choice tho. But then there's the fact I'm in love with Blizzard sorcs
As far as necros go, IMO you're right. Poison+CE in the pits until 98. Then respec to Fishy and run both Baal and Nilly.
Hammerdins in CS are THE pally to go for 99 except if you don't want to spice it up and get 98-99 with a tele-smiter Nilly runner
Assassins are the most versatile. K/T Baal, Pure Trapper Baal, Pure Trapper Pits... Pure Kicker Nilly is probably going to match the kill speed of Smiters.
I don't play barbs and druids so I can't really comment on them... Except that the only viable druid build is a Windy.
For sorcs the obvious choice for a 99 runner is a Lightning sorc /w Infinity merc. Blova (kills 2nd wave's skellies faster than a Blizzballer in my experience) with high-end equipment is almost as powerful at Baal runs. Pure Blizzard in AT until 98 then CS runs 98-99 would be my personal choice tho. But then there's the fact I'm in love with Blizzard sorcs
As far as necros go, IMO you're right. Poison+CE in the pits until 98. Then respec to Fishy and run both Baal and Nilly.
Hammerdins in CS are THE pally to go for 99 except if you don't want to spice it up and get 98-99 with a tele-smiter Nilly runner
Assassins are the most versatile. K/T Baal, Pure Trapper Baal, Pure Trapper Pits... Pure Kicker Nilly is probably going to match the kill speed of Smiters.
I don't play barbs and druids so I can't really comment on them... Except that the only viable druid build is a Windy.
I didn't take down the exact numbers while running, but it was something like...
95: 1,050,000
96: 550,000
97: 250,000
Not at 98 yet, but I think I've heard it to be around 80,000 before.
95: 1,050,000
96: 550,000
97: 250,000
Not at 98 yet, but I think I've heard it to be around 80,000 before.
http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Guide:High_Level_Baal_Runs_to_99_v1.10,_by_jjscud_and_Reborn
95 = 2.492b
96 = 2.717b
97 = 2.962b
98 = 3.229b
99 = 3.520b
95 = 2.492b
96 = 2.717b
97 = 2.962b
98 = 3.229b
99 = 3.520b
Gained lvl 95 on trapsin today, by means of pindlerunning. p8 pindle (including minions) yield about 85.5k exp. More like 35k now, so quite a few runs until lvl 96. However, with run times averaging 20 seconds (muling excluded) it might still be viable. 716mf, leaving room for picking up items, and a cube. Could ofc. improve mf, but past 700, what's the point...
I can't get such good times with my Trapper on /p8. Would you mind sharing a bit about your strategy (LS/DS numbers, CoS?) and your gear?
From the top of my head:
Pure lightning trapper build, fire blast maxed as well, spare points to BoS
Might merc Infinity thresher, shaftstop, vampire gaze
"Harmony" bow on switch
Ali baba "ist ist" / Monarch "ist ist ist ist" on main
Rare amu 2trap 22mf (some resists and stuff, but MASSIVE room for improvement)
Shako ptopaz
Enigma BP
Chance guards
Goldwrap
War Travelers
2x nagelring
Gheeds
5x trap skiller
8x 7mfsc
cube
id tome
8 empty spaces
...and a computer built right before StarCraft II - Wings of Liberty was released, this may or may not be relevant (loading times)
What I do, I start with the mf switch each game, then hit weapon switch, F3 for BoS cast, then F2 for teleport while I'm running. Run all the way until one teleport puts me right under the roof (where I want to be) then swithc weapons and start laying traps. Not a lot of IAS, but BoS helps. Merc runs to tank (positioned due to teleport) and I start fireblasting pindle. Even lightning immune, he goes down pretty fast. Only the really dangerous combos (fast/might, strong/might, fast/cursed or FE/LE/CE) ever results in an aborted run (or death...)
Every other run, mana needs replenishing, but it takes like one second to touch Malah before the run starts.
EDIT:
Oh, and I don't use DS nor CoS, only Burst of speed, Lightning Sentry and Fire Blast.
Pure lightning trapper build, fire blast maxed as well, spare points to BoS
Might merc Infinity thresher, shaftstop, vampire gaze
"Harmony" bow on switch
Ali baba "ist ist" / Monarch "ist ist ist ist" on main
Rare amu 2trap 22mf (some resists and stuff, but MASSIVE room for improvement)
Shako ptopaz
Enigma BP
Chance guards
Goldwrap
War Travelers
2x nagelring
Gheeds
5x trap skiller
8x 7mfsc
cube
id tome
8 empty spaces
...and a computer built right before StarCraft II - Wings of Liberty was released, this may or may not be relevant (loading times)
What I do, I start with the mf switch each game, then hit weapon switch, F3 for BoS cast, then F2 for teleport while I'm running. Run all the way until one teleport puts me right under the roof (where I want to be) then swithc weapons and start laying traps. Not a lot of IAS, but BoS helps. Merc runs to tank (positioned due to teleport) and I start fireblasting pindle. Even lightning immune, he goes down pretty fast. Only the really dangerous combos (fast/might, strong/might, fast/cursed or FE/LE/CE) ever results in an aborted run (or death...)
Every other run, mana needs replenishing, but it takes like one second to touch Malah before the run starts.
EDIT:
Oh, and I don't use DS nor CoS, only Burst of speed, Lightning Sentry and Fire Blast.
There was some zealot discussion earlier in this thread where the consensus was that the cookie cutter grief dude was slightly faster than the one using Death. However, if you just replace the helmet (usually Gface) and shield (HoZ/Phoenix?) with 2xDream, and put some points into the synergies, shouldn't that do more damage than just Grief + normal gear? And if you happen to have 2 Dream shields, you could have Stormlash/Dream on one switch and Grief/Dream on the other. You would start out with the Stormlash to trigger a few rounds of static, and then switch to the Grief to finish things off. Cta in cube instead if you want or need to.
I've had a soft spot for zealots since I built a Schaeferdin back in the day, and this seems like an upgraded version. I did some research and most "Dreamadin" guides favor using your own Conviction, but if roll with this setup here, you would still have (most of) the same physical damage as a normal grief setup + extra lightning damage. I did some research and this is basically what I have in mind:
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?757697-Dreamadin-or-not/page2
Though, I would use LoH. The question is if you would use Infinity to boost your lightning damage or Reaper's to boost physical and increase safety.
If anyone has the gear in question, I'd be super stoked to see some tests (p8 baals).
Basically,
Dream
Grief/Dream
Stormlash/Dream (gives you an excuse to make 1 normal Dream and 1 Dream in a Paladin shield lol)
Highlord's
Enigma or Fort depending on how much you love teleport
Gores
String of Ears
LoH
Ravenfrost+rare ring
As for skills, I don't have the normal zealot build in my head but I guess you would give up points in Holy Shield + something else to synergize the Holy Shock from the Dreams.
Charms would be Sharps to boost the physical damage since +skills don't boost synergies, right?
I've had a soft spot for zealots since I built a Schaeferdin back in the day, and this seems like an upgraded version. I did some research and most "Dreamadin" guides favor using your own Conviction, but if roll with this setup here, you would still have (most of) the same physical damage as a normal grief setup + extra lightning damage. I did some research and this is basically what I have in mind:
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?757697-Dreamadin-or-not/page2
bcoe said:
Though, I would use LoH. The question is if you would use Infinity to boost your lightning damage or Reaper's to boost physical and increase safety.
If anyone has the gear in question, I'd be super stoked to see some tests (p8 baals).
Basically,
Dream
Grief/Dream
Stormlash/Dream (gives you an excuse to make 1 normal Dream and 1 Dream in a Paladin shield lol)
Highlord's
Enigma or Fort depending on how much you love teleport
Gores
String of Ears
LoH
Ravenfrost+rare ring
As for skills, I don't have the normal zealot build in my head but I guess you would give up points in Holy Shield + something else to synergize the Holy Shock from the Dreams.
Charms would be Sharps to boost the physical damage since +skills don't boost synergies, right?
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Anyone have a Barbarian with Brand on switch to proc amp on the waves, or is that too rich even by today's standards? The proc chance seems high enough for this too seem semi-viable, and the level of the Amp is high enough to cover every single monster in a wave.
Though to be perfectly honest, my main concern with a WW barb is that you'll eventually run into that Lister pack with VERY bad mods that is just going to kill you outright. Using a shield doesn't seem viable because you won't do enough damage, and 2x Grief (or grief/beast - I don't feel lucky enough to roll Grief in an axe) and ~10K def or whatever you'll end up with still leaves you wide open to getting pwned at some point.
Another factor is what I'd like to call the annoyance factor, and that is probably the number one reason we only have a single lvl 99 Barbarian. The mana burn, chasing wave 2 skeletons all over the place (Enigma helps), decrep changing your ww speed, killing Baal, etc. Despite these factors, you can still do a run fast enough to eventually reach 98/99 or whatever your goal is, but it's so annoying to play. For example it might be worth it to wear Nature's Peace just to have to deal less with wave 2 skeletons because many of them will die when you kill the big ones.
I know that someone has a lvl 98 Barb at least. If you are reading this, what gear did you run Baal with?
Annoyance level:
Hammerdin (CS): 1
Lightsorc (Baal): 2
WW Barb (Baal): 9
Though to be perfectly honest, my main concern with a WW barb is that you'll eventually run into that Lister pack with VERY bad mods that is just going to kill you outright. Using a shield doesn't seem viable because you won't do enough damage, and 2x Grief (or grief/beast - I don't feel lucky enough to roll Grief in an axe) and ~10K def or whatever you'll end up with still leaves you wide open to getting pwned at some point.
Another factor is what I'd like to call the annoyance factor, and that is probably the number one reason we only have a single lvl 99 Barbarian. The mana burn, chasing wave 2 skeletons all over the place (Enigma helps), decrep changing your ww speed, killing Baal, etc. Despite these factors, you can still do a run fast enough to eventually reach 98/99 or whatever your goal is, but it's so annoying to play. For example it might be worth it to wear Nature's Peace just to have to deal less with wave 2 skeletons because many of them will die when you kill the big ones.
I know that someone has a lvl 98 Barb at least. If you are reading this, what gear did you run Baal with?
Annoyance level:
Hammerdin (CS): 1
Lightsorc (Baal): 2
WW Barb (Baal): 9
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Why would you want to run with a brand bow in the first place? Using reaper's on the merc gives decepify. A bit less damage than amp, but it has the advantage of slowing monsters down decreasing the chances of them killing you.
Whoa, first time I've found this thread. Is it still an option to run AT until 98? Then Nihl to 99? Or is CS/Baal the best options.
Forget the Brand bow. It doesn't work, tried it. Also, you'd probably want 2 wizardspike on switch for faster teleport.
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