Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro<

dustloop

New member
Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Some time ago when I was planning a pit necro, I read all about poison resistance in hell, and a comparison between having +skills and -resists on gear. I think the conclusion was that -resists were a lot more important than having +skills. Is that right?

On a separate note, pitrunning poison necros are the bomb. I used to hate going down to Pits level 2 with my fishymancer because of the chokepoint between the entrance and the rest of the cave - regular runners will know what I mean. The skellies would get stuck there, or the moron would get stuck there, or... And I would just curse myself that I restarted and didn't have an Enigma. There is no such problem with the poisonmancer. I go down, I spread my disease around, everything dies. Wooo!! And on players 5!
 
Last edited:
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

You have misunderstood something.. Necros = Trav. For Pits you use Barbs :tongue:

But yes, -epr is awesome.
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

-EPR is really awesome! A popular setup is to use Trang's shield, belt and gloves (the latter which is innegotiable anyway) to get the -25% EPR set bonus. If you have a really well-geared poisonmancer, you can even get away with skipping Lower Resist altogether for /p1 Pit runs.

In case you're interested, I'm using the Trang combo with Death's Web, have Corpse Explosion max'd, and put all extra points in Bone Wall for the Bone Armor synergy, 'caues I'm playing in HC. Don't worry if you can't get a hold of a Death's Web, because regardless of your setup, with max'd Corpse Explosion you'll be awesome anyway!
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

-EPR is really awesome! A popular setup is to use Trang's shield, belt and gloves (the latter which is innegotiable anyway) to get the -25% EPR set bonus. If you have a really well-geared poisonmancer, you can even get away with skipping Lower Resist altogether for /p1 Pit runs.

In case you're interested, I'm using the Trang combo with Death's Web, have Corpse Explosion max'd, and put all extra points in Bone Wall for the Bone Armor synergy, 'caues I'm playing in HC. Don't worry if you can't get a hold of a Death's Web, because regardless of your setup, with max'd Corpse Explosion you'll be awesome anyway!

With that setup shouldn't you be able to run a higher psetting pretty fast? or is it too dangerous?


 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

I only run for the boss drops. I could probably do it on higher psetting if I wanted though. I don't usually dabble too much in Hell after I completed a char, only for item finding, and preferably in the safest way possible. :P
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

dustloop, exactly how much damage your Poison Nova does depends on +skills (PN level), +%PSD, -ePR and LR skill level (well, and monster PR/PLR, but that's constant no matter what gear you use). It's kinda tough to say definitely what's better/more important because it depends on the setup exactly, but a good rule of thumb would be +skills > -ePR > +PSD > LR slvl. It definitely depends on what exactly we're talking about though, and whether those extra x skills are worth those y -ePR depends on what x and y are exactly, and depends on the rest of your gear. There's a nice poison damage calculator excel spreadsheet floating around, but I don't know where I first found it. I'd probably check the Files subforum, otherwise if you're curious about damage for different setups I can check it out for you.

It's worth noting that for a Pit runner, you're mostly concerned with maximizing damage against highly posion resistant monsters (Bone Warriors have 75% PR, the other monsters have between 0 and 25). Maximizing damage in general is probably the same as maximizing damage against 75% PR monsters most of the time, but a consideration like having a slightly higher Lower Resist slvl might be better than having a slightly higher +PSD number might come into play. It might be worse against the 0% PR monsters, but might be better against the 75% monsters, and if you want to kill fast, you're probably concerned with getting the 75% monsters fast, as the others are dying faster than the Bone Warriors either way. All in all not a huge deal I guess.

Edit: I think my post can be confusing, so let me be a bit more specific. -ePR is huge, and you probably want it on your gear if possible. +skills is also huge though, and saying "well +skills are more/less important than -ePR so doing setup X is definitely better" isn't good enough. If you can't find the excel spreadsheet, tell me the setups you're considering and I'll let you know how much damage they do.
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Yeah I get that, but I found that mine (3 piece trang, dweb, bramble) killed only a tiny bit slower on p8 than p1 in the early acts - didn't try pits though. CE still works as at the time you get the first corpse all the other monsters have reduced life as well. However, I do see p8 archers can be a major risk. How much life have you got? Full block or all vita?

edit: directed at arkado, sorry for the OT ;)
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Thanks Fabian, that was really useful. All that information was floating around in my mind but I wasn't thinking of it this way. You're right that the benchmark monster that I should be aiming for is the Bone Warrior because of its 75% PR, as everything else dies pretty quick with or without LR.

The setup I have now is:
Shako, Mara's, Tal's Armor, War Travs, 2 mana rings, and 3 piece Trang's set, with 6 fungal skillers. The part that I wanted to optimise is the weapon switch - I've got a White +2PN wand, a Blackbog's Sharp with a -5/+3 facet (yours!), and one -5/+3 faceted Trang's Wing. As you probably know from experience the White wand has +3 P&B along with +2PN, so a total of +5 to PN and extra CE radius, while the Sharp has +4 to PN, smaller CE radius, but the benefit of the facet. Once I decide which setup I want to run with then I can use the switch for something else (dunno what though).

So in this scenario the trade-off is:
+1 PN and extra CE radius, with stronger Bone Armor,
vs
-5 ePR

I should probably go hunt for that poison spreadsheet, come to think of it. Gosh, I'm a finance lecturer, you'd think that I would have thought of Excel first. Though I'm a lot lazier when not working, so maybe that's why.

Edit: found the spreadsheet by the illustrious onderduiker, linked for future posterity.

dustloop, exactly how much damage your Poison Nova does depends on +skills (PN level), +%PSD, -ePR and LR skill level (well, and monster PR/PLR, but that's constant no matter what gear you use). It's kinda tough to say definitely what's better/more important because it depends on the setup exactly, but a good rule of thumb would be +skills > -ePR > +PSD > LR slvl. It definitely depends on what exactly we're talking about though, and whether those extra x skills are worth those y -ePR depends on what x and y are exactly, and depends on the rest of your gear. There's a nice poison damage calculator excel spreadsheet floating around, but I don't know where I first found it. I'd probably check the Files subforum, otherwise if you're curious about damage for different setups I can check it out for you.

It's worth noting that for a Pit runner, you're mostly concerned with maximizing damage against highly posion resistant monsters (Bone Warriors have 75% PR, the other monsters have between 0 and 25). Maximizing damage in general is probably the same as maximizing damage against 75% PR monsters most of the time, but a consideration like having a slightly higher Lower Resist slvl might be better than having a slightly higher +PSD number might come into play. It might be worse against the 0% PR monsters, but might be better against the 75% monsters, and if you want to kill fast, you're probably concerned with getting the 75% monsters fast, as the others are dying faster than the Bone Warriors either way. All in all not a huge deal I guess.

Edit: I think my post can be confusing, so let me be a bit more specific. -ePR is huge, and you probably want it on your gear if possible. +skills is also huge though, and saying "well +skills are more/less important than -ePR so doing setup X is definitely better" isn't good enough. If you can't find the excel spreadsheet, tell me the setups you're considering and I'll let you know how much damage they do.

Edit edit: Excel crunched the numbers and shows that the -ePR makes more sense. With 36 PN + 40 synergies, 31 +PSD%, and 35 -ePR, and without casting LR, I do a mininum of 5,891 damage. The other setup does 5,348 min. -ePR wins by a large margin.

With that in mind, even the crappiest +1/-40 Death's Web should boost damage through the roof to about 10k min. Oh boy do I want one right now. On the other hand, If I spend a ton of time shopping for a +3P&B/+3PN wand and get 2os by luck, and dump 2x -5/+3 facets in, I would get a boost to 7,430 min. Might be worth spending some time with Anya.

Does anyone have a recommendation for shopping, or who to look, or how to shop fastest? I've looked at the shopping calculator (on another website) and I can't wrap my head around it.



 
Last edited:
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Yeah I get that, but I found that mine (3 piece trang, dweb, bramble) killed only a tiny bit slower on p8 than p1 in the early acts - didn't try pits though. CE still works as at the time you get the first corpse all the other monsters have reduced life as well. However, I do see p8 archers can be a major risk. How much life have you got? Full block or all vita?

edit: directed at arkado, sorry for the OT ;)

I went with 50% blocking, but I decided that physical attacks (i.e. the archers) are the only real threat in the Pits, so I put additional points in dex. I think I'm around 60% blocking, but it's been a while since I've given him a spin. I think his life is around 1200 using lots of life charms. I'd check, but the interwebz is dead @home. :/



 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

I tested 'white' ( a plain one, not with +pnova ) vs socketed DWeb in pits p1 and found next to no difference. Honestly speaking, p1 monsters are pushovers. The difference comes at higher psettings. White might actually be better for the faster cast rate with enigma. Maybe some MF item like 2 ist ali baba might be a good item for the weapon as well, if you are making p1 MF character.
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

It's true that at p1 you could probably run the pits naked and still spread disease like no tomorrow :) I'm currently running at p5, perhaps to prove a point to myself? Plus the slightly increased difficulty keeps it interesting. I have a short attention span :jig: Hence my interest in optimising the damage output. I like optimization problems lol.
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

I went with 50% blocking, but I decided that physical attacks (i.e. the archers) are the only real threat in the Pits, so I put additional points in dex. I think I'm around 60% blocking, but it's been a while since I've given him a spin. I think his life is around 1200 using lots of life charms. I'd check, but the interwebz is dead @home. :/

Yeah, then I probably wouldn't dare up the psetting too high. My novamancer has 2,1K life (post BO) but also no blocking. Whenever I had to deal with archers I'd just spam DV all over the place.

I tested 'white' ( a plain one, not with +pnova ) vs socketed DWeb in pits p1 and found next to no difference.

So what your saying is that +3P&B skills is as good as +1-2 all skills and -40-50% epr? That is definitely not my experience.
FCR: you can easily get this from other gear. 20 from gloves, 20 from hat, 10 from a ring/ammy reaches the 48 BP. Add another ring and a +15 ammy to reach the 75 BP, which however is hardly necessary as the only serious advantage would be a single frame faster tele speed.


 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

So what your saying is that +3P&B skills is as good as +1-2 all skills and -40-50% epr? That is definitely not my experience.

At p1 it's bascially the same, cause the monsters just.. die. At p8 there's obviously a huge difference..


 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Get an item with telport charges to make up for not having an enigma. I'm using a sumon/poison necro myself atm w/o enigma but I have a charged teleport item costs me 80k a full repair but its better than not having a warp!
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Get an item with telport charges to make up for not having an enigma. I'm using a sumon/poison necro myself atm w/o enigma but I have a charged teleport item costs me 80k a full repair but its better than not having a warp!

Any good suggestions? I could swap out the amulet for one with 25 teleport charges, but it's not the same as warping around like a sorc in any case. Another possibility is to use something like Naj's Puzzler or spellsteel, but that has obvious disadvantages in not being able to hold Trang's Wing.



 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

Honestly I don't see a Teleport charges item being practical for an area runner like a poison necro. The difference between Enigma and telecharges isn't that big for something like Travbarb where one Teleport per run is important, but for an area runner, every Teleport is essentially equally important, and I don't see it working out too well. Then again I haven't tried it.
 
Re: Uggh - Google-fu not working. Need help for Poison Pit Necro

I'm using an amulet myself so thats the best I have for you lol. I just keep in on most of the time. I was going to use a staff or some weapon with charged teleport, on my off hand, it if i found one. But i found a nice +3 summon skills wand today for my 2nd weapon. So i'm not exactly sure how it will make me feel if i do find a teleport weapon now!:/
 
Back
Top