Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
No, so far the only response I have received from a night action is the block on day 2.
No, so far the only response I have received from a night action is the block on day 2.
Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
- Thread starter RlyehExiled
- Start date
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
My understanding is nothing at all Goryani, any action is moved to a random player and I assume that separate actions by more than one persons would be moved to as many as targeted me. RE was less than forth coming to questions. Lynching may be the only way to confirm my role.
My understanding is nothing at all Goryani, any action is moved to a random player and I assume that separate actions by more than one persons would be moved to as many as targeted me. RE was less than forth coming to questions. Lynching may be the only way to confirm my role.
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
How much do we trust CG?
If he's telling the truth about being the last mafia, then we should be looking to third parties (I refuse to call them neutral unless they can win while the town wins). But that would mean there were 5 mafia and among them were a framer/tailor, roleblocker/redirector, cupid, rolecop and passive hammer. There seem to be at least two and maybe three third party roles, including a SK. Up to 8 players not pro-town. At least 6 are very definitely anti-town. That still seems a bit low for the number of type of pro-town roles. Quite a few confusion causing roles though. This game is close to having lots of bus drivers (bus driver, Chaos Sorcerer, Martyr, Blessed Child) and other confusion inducing elements. It just so happened that they seemed to adversely affect mafia more than the town.
If he's lying, then why would CG give up like that? I have to assume it was purposeful. Two cops, a tracker/watcher and a role cop are quite the lie detectors. I have to think remaining mafia fit one of several scenarios:
Interestingly, Laarz claimed role fits each criteria. I looked back to see if Laarz was concerned with warning the town about his aversion to being targeted. I can find some questions if the role thief stole alignment, not just role. I can find a claim that the investigator was right (888). But I can't find any warnings that you might randomly throw off townie abilities.
----------------------------------------------------
Summary of night actions and results
Paladin (day cop)
D1 - Laarz - innocent
D2 - coju - innocent
D3 - korialstraz - guilty
D4 - blocked
D5 - Sathoris - unknown
D6 - Gwaihir - unknown
Monk (night cop)
N1 - korialstraz - innocent
N2 - ???? - blocked
N3 - Valhauros - innocent
N4 - Caluin Graye - guilty
N5 - flubbucket - innocent
Pyro, BA, FoE, Gory and Loz have yet to be investigated by either cop.
Rogue (watcher/tracker)
N1 - track Goryani - no targets
N2 - track Gwaihir - blocked
N3 - track Gwaihir - targets Noodle
N4 - watch FoE - targeted by Sathoris, BA, Loz, CG
N5 - track Sathoris - targets Loz
Pyro, flubb and Laarz have claimed roles which don't have night actions. Laarz claims a role in which, even though he doesn't have a night action, it's possible to track him and get a result and also he can't be tracked as the target for aonyone else. coju, FoE and Gory have claimed roles which have night actions but have not been tracked yet.
Power Thief (role thief)
N1 - Goryani
N2 - Noodle - blocked
N3 - coju
N4 - nobody
N5 - nobody
Requiter (no common name I'm aware of)
N1 - Goryani
N2 - Valh - blocked
N3 - Valh
N4 - FoE
N5 - Loz
Faith healer (doc)
N1 - Loz
N2 - Goryani - blocked
N3 - Loz
N4 - FoE
N5 - ???? - probably should be kept secret
Missionary (third party passer of protective implements)
N1 - FoE
N2 - Valh - blocked
N3 - Noodle
N4 - flubb
N5 - Goryani
----------------------------------
The Requiter actions are the most striking. Targeting a claimed cop N1. Targeting a claimed bodyguard+sidekick N3 (who ended up dead). Targeting a claimed cop N4 (who mafia think was doc saved). Targeting a claimed doc N5 (who had a habit of self-targeting on odd nights).
Ankeli wasn't targeted despite claiming to have a non-mafia killing role. Gwaihir wasn't targeted despite being accused of being the SK. Both Ankleli and Gwaihir received votes and arguments they should be lynched, risking lynching a needed win condition because they could be night targeted.
The players who should have been targeted to fulfill the claimed "find the SK and vigi" win condition weren't targeted. Roles which are barriers to a SK win were targeted. instead.
How much do we trust CG?
If he's telling the truth about being the last mafia, then we should be looking to third parties (I refuse to call them neutral unless they can win while the town wins). But that would mean there were 5 mafia and among them were a framer/tailor, roleblocker/redirector, cupid, rolecop and passive hammer. There seem to be at least two and maybe three third party roles, including a SK. Up to 8 players not pro-town. At least 6 are very definitely anti-town. That still seems a bit low for the number of type of pro-town roles. Quite a few confusion causing roles though. This game is close to having lots of bus drivers (bus driver, Chaos Sorcerer, Martyr, Blessed Child) and other confusion inducing elements. It just so happened that they seemed to adversely affect mafia more than the town.
If he's lying, then why would CG give up like that? I have to assume it was purposeful. Two cops, a tracker/watcher and a role cop are quite the lie detectors. I have to think remaining mafia fit one of several scenarios:
- already been investigated with not-guilty result
- can't/won't be investigated
- can't/won't be tracked/watched
- won't be found obviously anti-town from a role swap
- has some wild role/ability like compulsion or shapeshift
- there is a massive disinformation campaign of which deceased is mafia and which aren't
Interestingly, Laarz claimed role fits each criteria. I looked back to see if Laarz was concerned with warning the town about his aversion to being targeted. I can find some questions if the role thief stole alignment, not just role. I can find a claim that the investigator was right (888). But I can't find any warnings that you might randomly throw off townie abilities.
----------------------------------------------------
Summary of night actions and results
Paladin (day cop)
D1 - Laarz - innocent
D2 - coju - innocent
D3 - korialstraz - guilty
D4 - blocked
D5 - Sathoris - unknown
D6 - Gwaihir - unknown
Monk (night cop)
N1 - korialstraz - innocent
N2 - ???? - blocked
N3 - Valhauros - innocent
N4 - Caluin Graye - guilty
N5 - flubbucket - innocent
Pyro, BA, FoE, Gory and Loz have yet to be investigated by either cop.
Rogue (watcher/tracker)
N1 - track Goryani - no targets
N2 - track Gwaihir - blocked
N3 - track Gwaihir - targets Noodle
N4 - watch FoE - targeted by Sathoris, BA, Loz, CG
N5 - track Sathoris - targets Loz
Pyro, flubb and Laarz have claimed roles which don't have night actions. Laarz claims a role in which, even though he doesn't have a night action, it's possible to track him and get a result and also he can't be tracked as the target for aonyone else. coju, FoE and Gory have claimed roles which have night actions but have not been tracked yet.
Power Thief (role thief)
N1 - Goryani
N2 - Noodle - blocked
N3 - coju
N4 - nobody
N5 - nobody
Requiter (no common name I'm aware of)
N1 - Goryani
N2 - Valh - blocked
N3 - Valh
N4 - FoE
N5 - Loz
Faith healer (doc)
N1 - Loz
N2 - Goryani - blocked
N3 - Loz
N4 - FoE
N5 - ???? - probably should be kept secret
Missionary (third party passer of protective implements)
N1 - FoE
N2 - Valh - blocked
N3 - Noodle
N4 - flubb
N5 - Goryani
----------------------------------
The Requiter actions are the most striking. Targeting a claimed cop N1. Targeting a claimed bodyguard+sidekick N3 (who ended up dead). Targeting a claimed cop N4 (who mafia think was doc saved). Targeting a claimed doc N5 (who had a habit of self-targeting on odd nights).
Ankeli wasn't targeted despite claiming to have a non-mafia killing role. Gwaihir wasn't targeted despite being accused of being the SK. Both Ankleli and Gwaihir received votes and arguments they should be lynched, risking lynching a needed win condition because they could be night targeted.
The players who should have been targeted to fulfill the claimed "find the SK and vigi" win condition weren't targeted. Roles which are barriers to a SK win were targeted. instead.
FredOfErik
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
I still see no better option than lynching Sath.
And I eccho the idea of coju steeling laarz' role tonight.
I still see no better option than lynching Sath.
And I eccho the idea of coju steeling laarz' role tonight.
flubbucket1
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
You mean my role there Fredtastic?? He still won't be able to claim, just verify what I've said thus far.
But then I'll be a thief. :scratchchin:
You mean my role there Fredtastic?? He still won't be able to claim, just verify what I've said thus far.
But then I'll be a thief. :scratchchin:
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
If you no longer have the role, will you still be restricted from talking about it?
If you no longer have the role, will you still be restricted from talking about it?
flubbucket1
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
The flavor of the story seems to point to the end of the mafia threat. The Dream God was only with the mafia correct??
Sorry TeamFred...Saw this my second read through
The flavor of the story seems to point to the end of the mafia threat. The Dream God was only with the mafia correct??
Sorry TeamFred...Saw this my second read through
FredOfErik
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Nope, glib, I was actually talking about this quote:
I sorta trust you. Even though your "claim" is weird to say the least. Maybe I just have a thing for elderly southern men.
Nope, glib, I was actually talking about this quote:
I sorta trust you. Even though your "claim" is weird to say the least. Maybe I just have a thing for elderly southern men.
FredOfErik
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Ninja's by the man himself.
And yes, I interpreted the story the same way.
Ninja's by the man himself.
And yes, I interpreted the story the same way.
flubbucket1
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
I would have to ask to be sure, but it seems obvious to me since it's not longer my role I'm no longer the keeper.
I would have to ask to be sure, but it seems obvious to me since it's not longer my role I'm no longer the keeper.
flubbucket1
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Why do I suddenly feel weird sitting here wearing only my underwear and robe??
Why do I suddenly feel weird sitting here wearing only my underwear and robe??
FredOfErik
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Ah, flubbs was not on the first page, must ahve missed it in my scan to see who posted since the last vote update.
Ah, flubbs was not on the first page, must ahve missed it in my scan to see who posted since the last vote update.
RlyehExiled
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Sath (4): Bad Ash, Fredoferik, Coju, Pyro, Flubb, Goryani
RlyehExiled(1): Lozhinge
6 to lynch.
-- Story--
The townsfolk agree, the outsiders (wait didn't you all come from outside town?) must be lynched, apparantly you've turned it into that kind of town. Amogst holy wards that seem to do nothing and strange lack of deaths, you have to entertain yourself. You strap Sath to a gallows.
"Any last words?"
He just smiles.
Sath was lynched - Assassin Guild Master (Quasi-NK Immune SK) - Third Party
All threats eliminated town win.
Game Log
Role Draw
Priority
List of dreams
I also have a MASSIVE list of how roles interacted with each other which I'm not gonna post, if you have any question about how something interacted, feel free to ask.
Glib you can roleclaim now without dying.
Final thoughts coming up in the next post.
Sath (4): Bad Ash, Fredoferik, Coju, Pyro, Flubb, Goryani
RlyehExiled(1): Lozhinge
6 to lynch.
-- Story--
The townsfolk agree, the outsiders (wait didn't you all come from outside town?) must be lynched, apparantly you've turned it into that kind of town. Amogst holy wards that seem to do nothing and strange lack of deaths, you have to entertain yourself. You strap Sath to a gallows.
"Any last words?"
He just smiles.
Sath was lynched - Assassin Guild Master (Quasi-NK Immune SK) - Third Party
All threats eliminated town win.
Game Log
Pregame: Dream used - #6 Voices in your head. (ALL Alive players can night talk next night)
Day 1: (team totals 5 vs 1 vs 14 (+1))
Gory casts detect evil on Laarz (redirected to: Loz) (Innocent result)
Autti(4): [FredofErik], [Asrrin], [Ankeli], FredofErik, [Valhauros], [Bad Ash], Glib, korialstraz
FredofErik(0): [Kestegs], [Ankeli]
Skjolde (12): [Autti], Solar Ice, Caluin Graye, Asrrin, Kestegs, Loz, [bad ash], pyro, gwaihir, laarz, bad ash, Ankeli, Valharous, Jcakes
Kestegs(0): [FredofErik]
Glib(0): [Sathoris], [Gwahir], [Jcakes]
Asrrin(0): [Sathoris]
Jcakes(0): [Goryani]
Goryani(0): [Sathoris]
Korialstarz(1): [Bad Ash], [Valhauros], coju, [jcakes], [bad ash]
Pyro(0): [Korialstarz]
Noodle(1): Goryani
12 to Lynch
Jcakes slain
Skjolde lynched
Night 1:
Solar Drives Glib and Koral
Kori blocks goryani
Autti immunes autti
Kegs role cops Goryani
Coju cops Koral (redirected to glib) – Innocent result
Bad Ash Tracks Goryani (No targets that night)
Loz Saves Loz
FoE steals goryani's role (FOE now the paladin, Goryani now the role thief)
Gwahir Gives ward to FredofErik
Sath Kills Asrrin
CG kills solar ice + uses lunar eclipse
Day 2: (lunar eclipse = block all night actions next night) [ teams: 5 vs 1 vs 10 (+1)]
FredofErik casts detect evil on Coju – innocent result
Korialstraz(1): [Caluin Graye], Valharous
Ankeli(1): Sathorsis
Flubbucket(3): Koral, [Loz], Gwahuir
Autti(10): Flubbucket, Ankeli, FoE, Kegs, goryani, CG, Loz, Pyro, Coju, Bad Ash
Autti is lynched – Dark Psion (Tailor/Framer) – Anti-town
Night 2 [Global roleblock]
Kori Redirect Goryani [blocked]
Kegs role cops Val [blocked]
Coju cops Loz [blocked]
Bad Ash Tracks gwahir [blocked]
Loz Saves goryani [blocked]
Pyro guardian Ankeli [Blocked]
goryani steals noodle's role (redirected to: Kori) [blocked]
Gwahir Gives ward to val [blocked]
Sath Kills val [blocked]
CG kills Sath + uses blood & thunder [blocked]
ank kills koral [blocked]
Day 3 [Team totals: 4 vs 1 vs 10 (+1)] [Blood & Thunder: Mafia watch + track all Nkd. Partial roleflips for town]
FoE detects evil on Koral (Guilty)
Koral Lynched
Night 3 [3 vs 1 vs 10 (+1)]
Val Martyr Goryani
Coju cop Val (innocent result)
Kegs rolecop Loz (Faith healer)
Bad Ash Tracks Gwahir (Targeted noodle)
Gwahir ward noodle (Sucessful)
Loz Saves Loz (Loz NK Immune)
Pyro saints Fred (Fred NK Immune as long as pyro lives)
Noodle ? Goryani (redirected to val)
Sath Kills Goryani (Redirected to Val) (Sucessful)
Ank NK Noodle (Sucessful, Val dies end of next day)
Cg kill ank + solar eclipse (Sucessful)
Gory steal coju (Coju = Role theif, Gory = Monk)
Day 4 (2 vs 1 vs 8 (+1)) [7 to lynch] (Solar eclispe: Block day powers + no flip from lynch)
Fred investigates LozH[blocked]
Kegs lycnhed
Night 4 [1 vs 1 vs 8(+1]
Goryani investigates CG (Guilty)
Bad Ash watchesI Fred of Erik (Sees that: CG and Loz targeted him)
Gwahir wards flubbucket
Loz Saves Fredoferik
CG Kills Fredoferik [saved]+ Move a stone
Sath Kills Fredoferik [Saved]
Day 5 (No unvotes)
Fred detect evil Sath (unknown)
CG lynched
night 5 [0 vs 1 vs 8(+1)]
Gory cops Flub (Innocent)
Bad ash tracks sath [sees him target loz]
Loz saves Loz
Gwahir wards goryani
Sath kills Loz [Saved]
day 6
foe detect gwahir (unknown)
Day 1: (team totals 5 vs 1 vs 14 (+1))
Gory casts detect evil on Laarz (redirected to: Loz) (Innocent result)
Autti(4): [FredofErik], [Asrrin], [Ankeli], FredofErik, [Valhauros], [Bad Ash], Glib, korialstraz
FredofErik(0): [Kestegs], [Ankeli]
Skjolde (12): [Autti], Solar Ice, Caluin Graye, Asrrin, Kestegs, Loz, [bad ash], pyro, gwaihir, laarz, bad ash, Ankeli, Valharous, Jcakes
Kestegs(0): [FredofErik]
Glib(0): [Sathoris], [Gwahir], [Jcakes]
Asrrin(0): [Sathoris]
Jcakes(0): [Goryani]
Goryani(0): [Sathoris]
Korialstarz(1): [Bad Ash], [Valhauros], coju, [jcakes], [bad ash]
Pyro(0): [Korialstarz]
Noodle(1): Goryani
12 to Lynch
Jcakes slain
Skjolde lynched
Night 1:
Solar Drives Glib and Koral
Kori blocks goryani
Autti immunes autti
Kegs role cops Goryani
Coju cops Koral (redirected to glib) – Innocent result
Bad Ash Tracks Goryani (No targets that night)
Loz Saves Loz
FoE steals goryani's role (FOE now the paladin, Goryani now the role thief)
Gwahir Gives ward to FredofErik
Sath Kills Asrrin
CG kills solar ice + uses lunar eclipse
Day 2: (lunar eclipse = block all night actions next night) [ teams: 5 vs 1 vs 10 (+1)]
FredofErik casts detect evil on Coju – innocent result
Korialstraz(1): [Caluin Graye], Valharous
Ankeli(1): Sathorsis
Flubbucket(3): Koral, [Loz], Gwahuir
Autti(10): Flubbucket, Ankeli, FoE, Kegs, goryani, CG, Loz, Pyro, Coju, Bad Ash
Autti is lynched – Dark Psion (Tailor/Framer) – Anti-town
Night 2 [Global roleblock]
Kori Redirect Goryani [blocked]
Kegs role cops Val [blocked]
Coju cops Loz [blocked]
Bad Ash Tracks gwahir [blocked]
Loz Saves goryani [blocked]
Pyro guardian Ankeli [Blocked]
goryani steals noodle's role (redirected to: Kori) [blocked]
Gwahir Gives ward to val [blocked]
Sath Kills val [blocked]
CG kills Sath + uses blood & thunder [blocked]
ank kills koral [blocked]
Day 3 [Team totals: 4 vs 1 vs 10 (+1)] [Blood & Thunder: Mafia watch + track all Nkd. Partial roleflips for town]
FoE detects evil on Koral (Guilty)
Koral Lynched
Night 3 [3 vs 1 vs 10 (+1)]
Val Martyr Goryani
Coju cop Val (innocent result)
Kegs rolecop Loz (Faith healer)
Bad Ash Tracks Gwahir (Targeted noodle)
Gwahir ward noodle (Sucessful)
Loz Saves Loz (Loz NK Immune)
Pyro saints Fred (Fred NK Immune as long as pyro lives)
Noodle ? Goryani (redirected to val)
Sath Kills Goryani (Redirected to Val) (Sucessful)
Ank NK Noodle (Sucessful, Val dies end of next day)
Cg kill ank + solar eclipse (Sucessful)
Gory steal coju (Coju = Role theif, Gory = Monk)
Day 4 (2 vs 1 vs 8 (+1)) [7 to lynch] (Solar eclispe: Block day powers + no flip from lynch)
Fred investigates LozH[blocked]
Kegs lycnhed
Night 4 [1 vs 1 vs 8(+1]
Goryani investigates CG (Guilty)
Bad Ash watchesI Fred of Erik (Sees that: CG and Loz targeted him)
Gwahir wards flubbucket
Loz Saves Fredoferik
CG Kills Fredoferik [saved]+ Move a stone
Sath Kills Fredoferik [Saved]
Day 5 (No unvotes)
Fred detect evil Sath (unknown)
CG lynched
night 5 [0 vs 1 vs 8(+1)]
Gory cops Flub (Innocent)
Bad ash tracks sath [sees him target loz]
Loz saves Loz
Gwahir wards goryani
Sath kills Loz [Saved]
day 6
foe detect gwahir (unknown)
Role Draw
1: Coju (AD) – [Monk] Power theif
2: Pyromancer (2D) – Silver Seraph
3: * Kestegs – Dark Wizard
4: * CG – Orc Warrior
5: Jcakes - Gnome Shopkeeper
6: Bad Ash - Rogue
7: Ankeli – Necromage
8: & Sathorsis – Assassin Guild Master
9: FredofErik – [Power Thief] Paladin
10: Gwaihir – Missionary
11: * Noodle (AH) – Elven Temptress
12: Asrrin (2H) – Ranger
13: Solar Ice – Gypsy Princess
14: Goryani – [Paladin] [Role thief] Monk
15: Flubbucket – Tree Stump
16: * Korialstraz – Chaos Sorc
17: * Autti - Dark Psion
18: Skj – Fighter
19: Valharous – Matryr
20: Loz (10H) - Faith Healer
21: Laarz (JH) – Blessed Child
2: Pyromancer (2D) – Silver Seraph
3: * Kestegs – Dark Wizard
4: * CG – Orc Warrior
5: Jcakes - Gnome Shopkeeper
6: Bad Ash - Rogue
7: Ankeli – Necromage
8: & Sathorsis – Assassin Guild Master
9: FredofErik – [Power Thief] Paladin
10: Gwaihir – Missionary
11: * Noodle (AH) – Elven Temptress
12: Asrrin (2H) – Ranger
13: Solar Ice – Gypsy Princess
14: Goryani – [Paladin] [Role thief] Monk
15: Flubbucket – Tree Stump
16: * Korialstraz – Chaos Sorc
17: * Autti - Dark Psion
18: Skj – Fighter
19: Valharous – Matryr
20: Loz (10H) - Faith Healer
21: Laarz (JH) – Blessed Child
Priority
Princess
Martyr
Roleblocker/ Redirector* (Possible to go first if targets martyr or princess)
Tailor
Cops
Trackers
Doctors
Role Thief + others
Missioniary
Kills
[death triggers]
Martyr
Roleblocker/ Redirector* (Possible to go first if targets martyr or princess)
Tailor
Cops
Trackers
Doctors
Role Thief + others
Missioniary
Kills
[death triggers]
List of dreams
2: Corrosive Moon: The next day, the person who is lynched, mafia can use their night action the following night (If aplicable)
4: Solar Eclipse: Next days lynch doesn't provide a role flip + blocks day actions
5: Power-surge: At the start of the next day All X-shot powers recharge 1 shot. They can not go over the number of charges they started with. This doesn't include dreams
6: Lunar Eclipse: Players have no night powers and the mafia has no factional kill, all players who submitted night action get a “[blocked]” pm. X shots don't deplete. Night still happens so mafia can team talk and sumbit a dream, which isn't blocked.
7: Doors to Darkness: The next day is shortened to 24 hours
9: Voices in your head: Next night, all alive players can use this: [QT] to talk amongst themselves.
10: Move a stone here.: Players may only un-vote once, the next day, their 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] vote is locked.
8: Blood and Thunder: The next night, night killed players will flip to all. Mafia get tracker/watcher effect on them
9: Crimson and Azure: The next night - Doctors kill, killers protect.
10: Lefty Flip: Next day mafia have day talk.
4: Solar Eclipse: Next days lynch doesn't provide a role flip + blocks day actions
5: Power-surge: At the start of the next day All X-shot powers recharge 1 shot. They can not go over the number of charges they started with. This doesn't include dreams
6: Lunar Eclipse: Players have no night powers and the mafia has no factional kill, all players who submitted night action get a “[blocked]” pm. X shots don't deplete. Night still happens so mafia can team talk and sumbit a dream, which isn't blocked.
7: Doors to Darkness: The next day is shortened to 24 hours
9: Voices in your head: Next night, all alive players can use this: [QT] to talk amongst themselves.
10: Move a stone here.: Players may only un-vote once, the next day, their 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] vote is locked.
8: Blood and Thunder: The next night, night killed players will flip to all. Mafia get tracker/watcher effect on them
9: Crimson and Azure: The next night - Doctors kill, killers protect.
10: Lefty Flip: Next day mafia have day talk.
I also have a MASSIVE list of how roles interacted with each other which I'm not gonna post, if you have any question about how something interacted, feel free to ask.
Glib you can roleclaim now without dying.
Final thoughts coming up in the next post.
Last edited:
RlyehExiled
New member
Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread
Final thoughts:
Taken from dead thread:
My end game notes seem to be a growing list of "Mistakes"
* Using dreams to balance the mafias power as a 6th power role
* Dreams being cryptic
* Dreams wildness acctually hurting mafia
(Umbrella - Dreams = trainwreck)
* Necromage : nice custom role, too powerful in rolemadness
* Day cop - No defense against it, probably not so smart
* 2 Doctors - Originally they were both faith healers (50% chance to work. 0 if targeted same person), then 1 became a saint and one a doctor, probably shouldnt of done that
* Hammerer - I like that role and think it's quite powerful as it causes a physcological strain, espically if you can hide it/let it fire well. As mafia seemed to get homed in on so fast it was acctually determinetal and should probably of been a switch mechanic (can choose to secretly hammer)
* Missioniary - I like that role, as an alt win condition "Predict whos not going to get nk'd or lynched" just oozes with "how good can you read the game". The mafia getting lynched out so quickly, as well as a bad pick, and so many kills happening at once made it not the best role for this game
* PGO, where art thou? - My fave role, and I didn't include it, why? Because I was sure the mafia was powerful enough with dreams I didn't need it to balance out town. Without the PGO the town roles were just too strong I like. (PGO for those who don't know passivly kill anyone who target them at night.) I did include a nexus that also bounced kills (wards didnt get redirected from it's passive effect), but it only got targeted once, and the effect was inconsequencal.
* NK Immune SK - SKs balance out anti-town factions by crossfire, NK immune so he can't be killed, turned out dreams werent the balancing act they were meant to be, so I accidently slammed mafia a bit more as they can't strike back. Well the SK didn't touch them, he didnt touch any town PRs ethier really.
* Rolethief - Intended as a wildcard, and hopefully would allow mafia to steal some town power roles...guess what? Just got used as an information role.
What I learned:
When people say "Role madness is impossible to balance" they bloody well meant it, granted the experiment with dreams as a factional ability fell flat on it's face, but there ya go. Also I should of kept in more "quasi-power" roles like "dream readers" and such. I know I said I wanted to try everyone having a powerful power role, but it just didn't work as you saw, the balance I saw and set up took a nose dive as soon as key mafia members bit the dust.
Originally the set up had in it: AT: A role destroyer, Dream scryer, Rolecop/roleblocker hybrid, redriector, seducer
PT: had different, Vote stealer/2x voter combo, govoner (can stop lynches), vengful and bomb were 2 seperate roles rather than the now standard 1 role, the power theif was 1 shot and copied the role rather than stealing it. 2 more custom roles: Mime Artist (50% chance to copy any action used on them back at the person) [became the blessed child instead], and random of all trades where the action you could use changed each night, but you didn't know what, so you'd send in a cop, kill, track and some other request and get 1 of them triggering. [became necromage]
The paladin originally was a night cop and could only test who the SK was
The ranger originally had a day kill power.
The faith healers originally could only protect against mafia kills, there was a posion healer who could stop only sk kills, they were merged to make them less narrow, something that again upset the balance.
Final thoughts: Yeah I messed up big time, and if I was to do another similar game (That is one w/o vanillia/french vanillia townies) I wouldnt work so hard making everyone have uber-power power roles. I'd give some people weakish roles but also a mason buddy or something to spice them up, or a hybrid role of 2 sucky powers. Also things like hammerer for anti-town, making it worse to make it better.
I hope I didn't ruin too many peoples enjoyment of the game, and I REALLY once again apologise to the mafia for grossly over-estimating not only the power of dreams, but also how much they could **** with cop roles with Autti and Korals powers. I have learned from these mistakes and I think a failed pratical run means 500x more than any ammount of theory running.
Any thoughts, good or bad don't be afraid to blast me with them. Any questions feel free to ask.
And I hope you'll all join my next game whenever that may be (Im guessing 4-5-6 months time)
Also never used day roles before this game, never will do again, or at least not day cop. Day cop is silly, because of wordings on roleblockers, day roles tend to be immune to them ("block all night actions" vs day actions)
Another mistake was changing it to a day effect.
Basically I made a lot of assumptions based around dreams mechanic that turned out to be wrong, the original set up with the dreamer being a person and not "the 6th man" who didn't exist was vastly different. A lot of the roles I used in this I would never do again, or in very specific set ups (Saint without a doc for example). Also everyone seemed to slander the lighting rod (Martyr role), I like it, it can create 2 death proof players with the doc too, but that aside it's just a bodyguard that can also stop roleblocks as well as kills. *shrug*
EDIT: About Laarz's role, Gwahir could pass a ward to him no problem, kills got reflected, I decided early on if the SK and Laarz were alive and only them 2 alive the SK won.
Anyway critisms are welcome, this was an experiment and a failed one at that so I deserve a lot of bashing, like I said I learned my lesson and of all the sites Ive hosted on this has been my biggest fail game. I just hope you'll all give me another chance in the future.
-RE
I look forward to my policy lynch next game
Final thoughts:
Taken from dead thread:
My end game notes seem to be a growing list of "Mistakes"
* Using dreams to balance the mafias power as a 6th power role
* Dreams being cryptic
* Dreams wildness acctually hurting mafia
(Umbrella - Dreams = trainwreck)
* Necromage : nice custom role, too powerful in rolemadness
* Day cop - No defense against it, probably not so smart
* 2 Doctors - Originally they were both faith healers (50% chance to work. 0 if targeted same person), then 1 became a saint and one a doctor, probably shouldnt of done that
* Hammerer - I like that role and think it's quite powerful as it causes a physcological strain, espically if you can hide it/let it fire well. As mafia seemed to get homed in on so fast it was acctually determinetal and should probably of been a switch mechanic (can choose to secretly hammer)
* Missioniary - I like that role, as an alt win condition "Predict whos not going to get nk'd or lynched" just oozes with "how good can you read the game". The mafia getting lynched out so quickly, as well as a bad pick, and so many kills happening at once made it not the best role for this game
* PGO, where art thou? - My fave role, and I didn't include it, why? Because I was sure the mafia was powerful enough with dreams I didn't need it to balance out town. Without the PGO the town roles were just too strong I like. (PGO for those who don't know passivly kill anyone who target them at night.) I did include a nexus that also bounced kills (wards didnt get redirected from it's passive effect), but it only got targeted once, and the effect was inconsequencal.
* NK Immune SK - SKs balance out anti-town factions by crossfire, NK immune so he can't be killed, turned out dreams werent the balancing act they were meant to be, so I accidently slammed mafia a bit more as they can't strike back. Well the SK didn't touch them, he didnt touch any town PRs ethier really.
* Rolethief - Intended as a wildcard, and hopefully would allow mafia to steal some town power roles...guess what? Just got used as an information role.
What I learned:
When people say "Role madness is impossible to balance" they bloody well meant it, granted the experiment with dreams as a factional ability fell flat on it's face, but there ya go. Also I should of kept in more "quasi-power" roles like "dream readers" and such. I know I said I wanted to try everyone having a powerful power role, but it just didn't work as you saw, the balance I saw and set up took a nose dive as soon as key mafia members bit the dust.
Originally the set up had in it: AT: A role destroyer, Dream scryer, Rolecop/roleblocker hybrid, redriector, seducer
PT: had different, Vote stealer/2x voter combo, govoner (can stop lynches), vengful and bomb were 2 seperate roles rather than the now standard 1 role, the power theif was 1 shot and copied the role rather than stealing it. 2 more custom roles: Mime Artist (50% chance to copy any action used on them back at the person) [became the blessed child instead], and random of all trades where the action you could use changed each night, but you didn't know what, so you'd send in a cop, kill, track and some other request and get 1 of them triggering. [became necromage]
The paladin originally was a night cop and could only test who the SK was
The ranger originally had a day kill power.
The faith healers originally could only protect against mafia kills, there was a posion healer who could stop only sk kills, they were merged to make them less narrow, something that again upset the balance.
Final thoughts: Yeah I messed up big time, and if I was to do another similar game (That is one w/o vanillia/french vanillia townies) I wouldnt work so hard making everyone have uber-power power roles. I'd give some people weakish roles but also a mason buddy or something to spice them up, or a hybrid role of 2 sucky powers. Also things like hammerer for anti-town, making it worse to make it better.
I hope I didn't ruin too many peoples enjoyment of the game, and I REALLY once again apologise to the mafia for grossly over-estimating not only the power of dreams, but also how much they could **** with cop roles with Autti and Korals powers. I have learned from these mistakes and I think a failed pratical run means 500x more than any ammount of theory running.
Any thoughts, good or bad don't be afraid to blast me with them. Any questions feel free to ask.
And I hope you'll all join my next game whenever that may be (Im guessing 4-5-6 months time)
Also never used day roles before this game, never will do again, or at least not day cop. Day cop is silly, because of wordings on roleblockers, day roles tend to be immune to them ("block all night actions" vs day actions)
Another mistake was changing it to a day effect.
Basically I made a lot of assumptions based around dreams mechanic that turned out to be wrong, the original set up with the dreamer being a person and not "the 6th man" who didn't exist was vastly different. A lot of the roles I used in this I would never do again, or in very specific set ups (Saint without a doc for example). Also everyone seemed to slander the lighting rod (Martyr role), I like it, it can create 2 death proof players with the doc too, but that aside it's just a bodyguard that can also stop roleblocks as well as kills. *shrug*
EDIT: About Laarz's role, Gwahir could pass a ward to him no problem, kills got reflected, I decided early on if the SK and Laarz were alive and only them 2 alive the SK won.
Anyway critisms are welcome, this was an experiment and a failed one at that so I deserve a lot of bashing, like I said I learned my lesson and of all the sites Ive hosted on this has been my biggest fail game. I just hope you'll all give me another chance in the future.
-RE
I look forward to my policy lynch next game
