The WoT Mafia Game

[Caluin Graye]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

You told me it was going to be pretty harmless. Something like died in his sleep. Then you changed it an hour before the day started when I wasn't there anymore and it was a bit more gruesome with throat slicing.

This is true. You have my apologies for that. I don't think it would have saved you from the one-shot claim, however.

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

In case I wasn't clear earlier, I enjoyed this game muchly and congratulate CG on a great round.

 

[Drixx]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I'm a little bothered that the mafia don't want to share their QT. It seems to me that the only reason to hide it would be that they said things there they would be embarrassed for some of us to read. Part of gaining a full appreciation for the game (at least for me) is seeing how everything went together for the main players.

And besides, we who are not the scum in any given game rather expect to see the scum venting in such places, as that's the outlet they have. I cannot imagine there's anything too too shocking there.

 

[Gullik]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

The mafia wanting to keep their QT secret makes me want to read it even more. You teases.

 

[Laarz]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I have to agree with you Gullik, they may be ashamed of things they said or it may be they don't want people to see their meta but hey we're all big boys and girls here I dont think there would be anything there we haven't heard before.

 

[Asrrin]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I have no problems with people reading it, but I forgot who was the one who requested it. Lemme go back and check.

 

[Asrrin]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Found it, I'll PM and ask what's up.

 

[Asrrin]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Here's the link, Thundercat just PM'd me saying it's ok. He would have posted the link but he lost the PM.

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/v2rz4ZTEHEh

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Oh, I'd also like to hear thoughts on how people liked the day start versus the night start. I personally don't like night starts, since I feel it's a bit of a kick in the nuts to sign up for a game, wait for a week or so for it to begin, get your role PM, then not get to play.

With day start, everyone gets at least one day to play the game. The first night kill is almost always random anyways; does the town really get enough information from it to make a good lynch decision on day 1?

 

[Kestegs]

I was originally against the day start. It did play out pretty well in this game though. I wouldn't mind seeing it again, but I also wouldn't mind if I didn't see it again.

I think it gives everyone a bit more information. It also makes the N1 kill a bit less random I think.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Oh, I'd also like to hear thoughts on how people liked the day start versus the night start. I personally don't like night starts, since I feel it's a bit of a kick in the nuts to sign up for a game, wait for a week or so for it to begin, get your role PM, then not get to play.

With day start, everyone gets at least one day to play the game. The first night kill is almost always random anyways; does the town really get enough information from it to make a good lynch decision on day 1?

Seemed like it worked out. At least gave some info to power roles to guide night 1 choices.

Also, I laughed at the mafia thread. TC thought I was the cop based off a post where I was leaving a breadcrumb, but for the completely wrong reason.

 

[Technomancer]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I still have mixed feelings about the day start. It seemed to work out ok, and I know what you're talking about, waiting and waiting then having to wait 24 more hours *is* pretty screwy! However, I did feel like we were just running around sucking our thumbs. I guess about the only thing a NK start does is allow us to the ability to judge peoples' reactions to the NK, or lack thereof.

Overall, I'd say it's a wash though, and would declare myself to have no real preference in the future.

The 9pm start/stop time was UBER-DUPER-AWESOME though! I was able to be active around the most important time of the game! +1!

 

[Drixx]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Since the Mafia QT thread has now been linked to everyone, and since I was slandered in said thread, I want to take the opportunity to publicly defend myself.

I voted for TC for no other reason than he seemed to be intentionally obtuse in trying to make me look bad when what he quoted had an obvious non-sinister meaning. I assumed that as a respected moderator of mafia games around here, he wouldn't bring a personal beef into another game, and that left me with only one reason for him to do that: that he was scum.

Of course, I had the advantage of knowing that I was on the good side and therefore knowing that convoluted or flimsy attempts to make me look bad were either confused townies or mafia. Since TC has a long history playing the game, I ruled out the possibility of him actually misunderstanding my two posts directed at Loz and assumed he understood perfectly well. That left only two possible motives, one of which I discounted, which left me with him being scum.

I've sent a pm his way and hopefully we can clear up any bad feelings or bad vibes. I know it's silly to care about how you are viewed on the internet, but I really like the community here, and I care about integrity even online and in video games, so I wanted to be on the record that I simply am not vindictive like that.

Hope this plus the pm puts an end to any unpleasantness

 

[Drixx]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Oh, and Asrrin, magnificently played. I was absolutely convinced early on that you were scum, but by the end of the game I was leaning towards you being townie. Looks like some bad luck boxed you in there. It was a well played game on the mafia's part honestly.

If a couple things had gone differently I think you guys swing the game. I agree that the nightkill having their roles revealed made the mafia task tougher, but you guys had some pretty strong abilities to work with.

Honestly, I'm not sure I could play a mafia very well. I'd be overanalyzing everything so much trying not to slip up that I would be like a giant flashing light saying "look at me, look at me, I'm scum!"

 

[Asrrin]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Oh, and Asrrin, magnificently played. I was absolutely convinced early on that you were scum, but by the end of the game I was leaning towards you being townie. Looks like some bad luck boxed you in there. It was a well played game on the mafia's part honestly.

If a couple things had gone differently I think you guys swing the game. I agree that the nightkill having their roles revealed made the mafia task tougher, but you guys had some pretty strong abilities to work with.

Honestly, I'm not sure I could play a mafia very well. I'd be overanalyzing everything so much trying not to slip up that I would be like a giant flashing light saying "look at me, look at me, I'm scum!"

I hate to say it Drixx, but you present such an easy target because of you misunderstandings of the motives and tells of forum players vs. meat world players. I think you're slowly learning and I fully expect you to be a regular vet in another few games. But I will tell you that I would go after you just as hard if I were townie because you make a LOT of scum tells. Just continue working on the subtleties and I think you'll do great.

I find the best way to play mafia is to play like you are a townie. Hunting the 3rd party is a perfect way of getting congratulated for scum hunting while still protecting your scum buddies. The hard part comes when you have a power that you need to use to misdirect the town, and then during the day trying to gently nudge the town to notice it without being to forward about it. It's a delicate balance of being honest to the town and keeping up false pretenses.

 

[Drixx]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I hate to say it Drixx, but you present such an easy target because of you misunderstandings of the motives and tells of forum players vs. meat world players. I think you're slowly learning and I fully expect you to be a regular vet in another few games. But I will tell you that I would go after you just as hard if I were townie because you make a LOT of scum tells. Just continue working on the subtleties and I think you'll do great.

I find the best way to play mafia is to play like you are a townie. Hunting the 3rd party is a perfect way of getting congratulated for scum hunting while still protecting your scum buddies. The hard part comes when you have a power that you need to use to misdirect the town, and then during the day trying to gently nudge the town to notice it without being to forward about it. It's a delicate balance of being honest to the town and keeping up false pretenses.

I think part of the problem I'm having adjusting is that some of the accepted logic doesn't make sense to me. I've started to read stuff at mafiascum though, and that's helping a bit.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I think part of the problem I'm having adjusting is that some of the accepted logic doesn't make sense to me. I've started to read stuff at mafiascum though, and that's helping a bit.

Like I said briefly in our PM exchange; a lot of the times it's not about the question, but how someone reacts to the question. For instance, if I call someone scum, I expect one of two reactions: Either they'll let it roll of their back, or they'll deny it vehemently. The latter is considered far scummier than the former, as a scum's first instinct is to defend themselves due to either a guilty conscience or desire to blend in. In most cases the townie, knowing the claim is weak, will just ignore it and continue with their scum hunting.

That's just a simple example, but it illustrates my point. The harder you defend yourself, the scummier you look. Also, I think you get too hung up on surviving the entire game. It's a townie's job to die if by doing so will further the town's win condition.

I say these things not to aggravate, but to help point out some of the little overlooked nuances that revolve around these kinds of games.

 

[Laarz]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

Caluin, I didn't think I would like the day start because I like to see the nk choices when the game starts, but I have to say I thought it worked good.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

I forgot to say, thanks for hosting CG! You almost made me pick up a book to read. Almost.

 

[Goryani]

Re: The WoT Mafia Game

The original fake claim wasn't bartender, it was Restless Townie. Restless Townie is to watcher/tracker as Godfather is to cop.

I guess I was confused by "pick a person to visit" and "like to talk with everyone" parts of the ability description. If nothing actually occurs, then it sounds like this role is closer to miller -> cop than godfather -> cop. Cops obtain a false positive when investigating a miller. Watcher/tracker should obtain a false positive from someone targeting another though no other action/ability occurs. If watchers/trackers can't detect the nothingness that happens, then Loial is just a VT but tricked to thinking he has an ability. Am I understanding that correctly?

3) Dragonsworn cult, led by Masema. I hate cults, so I dropped this one early on.

I hate surprise cults. If town and mafia get warned about the existence of a cult, then I don't mind cults at all. Speculation galore!

Oh, I'd also like to hear thoughts on how people liked the day start versus the night start. I personally don't like night starts, since I feel it's a bit of a kick in the nuts to sign up for a game, wait for a week or so for it to begin, get your role PM, then not get to play.

With day start, everyone gets at least one day to play the game. The first night kill is almost always random anyways; does the town really get enough information from it to make a good lynch decision on day 1?

Day start worked out this game. It's vitally important for town to have something to talk about D1. Any game with a night start qualifies. For this game, the rules changes and theme speculation gave enough players enough to talk about that the rest of the players had something to interact with. If quoting role PMs, plurality rules and no lynch vote options were common, I think the day start would have tanked.

I think part of the problem I'm having adjusting is that some of the accepted logic doesn't make sense to me. I've started to read stuff at mafiascum though, and that's helping a bit.

Everyone has their own accepted logic. Mine is quite often different from "accepted play" but it works for me. Among the things I look for are consistency and practicing what one preaches.

To be honest, you are very inconsistent. You frequently violate the very maxims you use to judge others' behavior. At some point in the game, you will make a statement like "doing XYZ is scummy" then at another point in the game, you will do XYZ. Someone will call you on it and interrogate you. Your answer is usually something like "you are clearly scum because there is a valid explanation." Successful scum are successful because they have valid explanations which trick the town. If someone or something needs to be explained, they need to be interrogated. Deeply.

You seem so shocked and appalled that anyone dare interrogate you that you spend more time interrogating the interrogator than answering questions. That mentality implies you are the only one capable of being an interrogator and/or that everyone else is scum.