Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

[ThunderCat]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

When I turn out to be who I claim to be, Bad Ash, and I investigate Gorny and some results are given to me, then those results will be true.

 

[Kraz3yIvan]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Vote: Thundercat

I'm still thinking there are better ones but we will never get the votes - your role descriptions have been iffy TC if you are townie then your death will not be in vain we can target some of the super aggressive players who lynched you early doors.

I think over night we had a return of the NK person (same MO as feysal??) but we had some sort of save or role block intervene - that's how I've read it, we know we are down a bus driver.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Uraj told us Feysals role as well.

You're mistaken. Uraj never confirmed Feysal's role, and it's not reflected in the dead pool on the front page like everyone else.

TC has backed himself into a corner here and IDK if theres anything you can say that'll gain my trust. A lot of misspeaking which is uncommon for you

If you feel that way now, then obviously you felt that way yesterday... so where were you when we needed the votes to lynch TC? Why be so quiet, then suddenly pipe up now that TC's fate is all but sealed?

 

[Technomancer]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Dammit, first off, I have to apologize for not voting yesterday. I had the comp booting up at the last minute and a big damn thunderstorm rolled right on top of me! We had up to golf-ball sized hail and by the time the storm rolled over, it was too late. The storm today was even worse, but fortunately there wasn't anything to interfere with.

Looking over the end of yesterday, I would have voted for TC. After seeing some of the timings and inconsistencies in his story, and the fact that Feysal 'conveniently' had the exact same role as Val, I actually feel good about voting for him now, so I'm all for a quicklynch.

Vote: ThunderCat

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VAL!! Come on man! I'm sure you're still following so I'll say this: What I suspect TC of doing (and if he didn't, what he was absolutely CAPABLE of doing) is exactly why no one is suppose to copy/paste their role description! We are bleeding like a stuck pig here guys! NO MORE MODKILLS!!! c'mon, srsly!

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So what went on with the night kill? I guess whoever the target was had protection?

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

When I turn out to be who I claim to be, Bad Ash, and I investigate Gorny and some results are given to me, then those results will be true.

I havent voted for you yet TC, but the results of Gorny and his potential switches have a very high chance of proving nothing about your role. Example: Gorny is who he and uraj said he is and he switched noodle and I overnight which is highly predictable gorny behavior. How does that prove anything you have said so far? I want to believe you, I think you are a strong town member to have, but you have misstepped several times. You cant deny that, if you were in our shoes youd be voting for yourself. I want to see more and am hoping you get validating information to help prove your case

You're mistaken. Uraj never confirmed Feysal's role, and it's not reflected in the dead pool on the front page like everyone else.



If you feel that way now, then obviously you felt that way yesterday... so where were you when we needed the votes to lynch TC? Why be so quiet, then suddenly pipe up now that TC's fate is all but sealed?

RL got in the way. Cant be at a comp 24/7 as much as i'd like and my vote would have done nothing as we were further than 1 vote away from a lynch if IIRC.

If Uraj didn't confrim his role that even hurts TC more because Feysal claimed vanilla townie.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

TC who do you want lynched today and why

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

RL got in the way. Cant be at a comp 24/7 as much as i'd like and my vote would have done nothing as we were further than 1 vote away from a lynch if IIRC.

I respect real life commitments, but I also realize a lot of people like to use those as reasons for missing a crucial vote when it's needed.

We were exactly one vote away.

If Uraj didn't confrim his role that even hurts TC more because Feysal claimed vanilla townie.

.... no, Feysal claimed no such thing.

I'm getting some very strong suspicions about you, Ash. Right up there with Ivan.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

I respect real life commitments, but I also realize a lot of people like to use those as reasons for missing a crucial vote when it's needed.

We were exactly one vote away.



.... no, Feysal claimed no such thing.

I'm getting some very strong suspicions about you, Ash. Right up there with Ivan.

Just looked and youre right, I coulda sworn he did. Might be getting him confused with Valhauros. Well we can agree to be suspicious of eachother then because with your "investigate gornys corpse" claim which still makes no sense, we will have to see.

Where has Mar been and do we think Leo is ever coming back?

Also, being one vote away, I have zero intentions of avoiding a no lynch and will be voting for TC today if he doesnt come up with something more credible. I have never faked RL restrictions in mafia and will never do that.

 

[ThunderCat]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

The reason for the mistake regarding my ability being used during the night was due to the frustration that one caused and the pressure of being lynched. I agree it looks quite suspicious but I'm only human. Mistakes happen.

Who I would like to see lynched? Valhauros since he has, yet again, avoided my question or maybe Marahumm as the investigation on Miss Leo should have provided some information, even if she was dead. Cops don't get information about a player only if they are blocked or the host knows that said cop will die that night.
Sathoris is also a bit suspicious because he pushed for my lynch two days in a row which resulted in a no lynch situation. But, as I said before, he could just be a townie that won't see others perspectives. Or he could be an aggressive mafia player who tries to look town. Other than that, I got nothing.
However, I will never vote for myself in order to prevent a no lynch situation, even if I stand by the fact that a lynch is better than a no lynch. Unless I was a vanilla townie with no abilities whatsoever. I believe I still have one of the most powerful abilities a townie can have apart from my investigative powers, but I won't reveal this information unless I am lynched or some other specific event happens as that would render it useless.
I'm off to sleep, when I wake up I will make up my mind on whose body to investigate.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Minor though they be, I still have the two questions I asked TC at the end of day yesterday.

The story indicates a night kill was attempted though failed for some reason. The method seems to be a sniper - something completely different. The story indicates the target was hit and presumably should have died. That the target is alive and well indicates a save of some sort. I'm not sure what to make of the scraps of cloth bits.

If we assume a doc save, the doc will know who was targeted. The target may not be guaranteed to be pro-town (mafia targeting SK or SK targeting mafia or mafia targeting mafia) but it should be safe to assume the target isn't on the same side as the sniper (no bus driver).

One other thing about a doc save: should we infer anything from no save story at the end of N1?

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

two things TC. First, never would expect you to vote for yourself, wasnt what I meant or was saying. secondly, Val was modkilled yesterday.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Players alive:
1. Asrrin
2. CoolguyBad
3. Goryani
4. Noodle
5. Zarniwoop
6. ThunderCat
7. Marahumm
8. Bad Ash
9. Technomancer
10. Sathoris
11. Caluin Graye
12. Krazeyivan
13. Ankeli
14. LozHinge the Unhinged


Players dead:
1. Gorny --Mod Killed Day one, Bus Driver, Pro-Town
2. Feysal --Died at the end of Day one
3. Leopold Stotch --Went missing on Night two
4. Laarz -- Strangled Night two
5. Valhauros -- Mod Killed Day two, Cityslicker, Pro-Town

 

[Goryani]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

If someone is a "Poisoner" or whatever the role is, do they receive the victim's role info?

There is no general answer to this question. Some games give no role information to mafia. Some games give a little (name). Some games give a lot (name, role, powers). I speculate that SK would obtain the same info as mafia would. You're probably not going to like this next part: If a coroner role exists, then I guess the poisoner would indeed receive role information. If a coroner role is fabrication, then who knows. Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

For me, it's Leo's disappearance that gives the best hint. Leo is plainly listed among the deceased, though it appears that wasn't always the case. Being able to protect one's antitown antics from the coroner makes sense only if there is a coroner. Of course, if TC isn't the coroner, it means he is the one that knows Leo's disposition.

Speculative question:
If TC was mafia and had strangled Laarz, he would have known Laarz's role and thus could have set himself up with a fictitious "Coroner" role.
This isn't what has happened - he claims to have investigated Feysal and come up with a role. What's more, it is a role I have reason to believe is correct.

Either TC is fully honest with us or he's come up with an incredible story. The incredible story requires lots of little details to be correct. It requires foresight, planning, and near flawless execution. No offense intended TC, but near flawless execution you haven't reached this game. I'm leaning toward honest.

 

[Technomancer]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Who I would like to see lynched? Valhauros since he has, yet again, avoided my question

Umm, Val was mod-killed yesterday for posting his exact role description, which which conveniently matches what you later said Feysal was. Now, it could obviously be coincidence, but it atm nullifies your investigation claim at the very least. Though planting the idea you didn't remember that seems pretty odd considering you even mentioned his claim in your own... :scratchchin:

The story indicates a night kill was attempted though failed for some reason. The method seems to be a sniper - something completely different. The story indicates the target was hit and presumably should have died. That the target is alive and well indicates a save of some sort. I'm not sure what to make of the scraps of cloth bits.

If we assume a doc save, the doc will know who was targeted. The target may not be guaranteed to be pro-town (mafia targeting SK or SK targeting mafia or mafia targeting mafia) but it should be safe to assume the target isn't on the same side as the sniper (no bus driver).

One other thing about a doc save: should we infer anything from no save story at the end of N1?

The cloth thing doesn't really sound like being saved, it sounds like a self-protection to me. Of course, I guess it could be a patch-up job by the doctor... Hmm, it seems hard to say.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

1) In his first claim in post #303 he says he has a night abiltity. The subsequent role reveal of Feysal is just a copy of what Valhauros already confirmed as the townie role. Conveniently he couldn't get Leo's role. Killed by someone other than the mafia perhaps? (See point 2) He then later changes it to day a day ability in post #316

Why is it convenient he couldn't get Leo's role? It sounds like you know that Leo had a role other than cityslicker.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Still upholding the play that you would lynch a claimed cop unless he gives you a better target.

You of all people should know that claiming cop isn't a Harry Potter invisibility cloak. The insistence of Feysal and some others of never lynching a claimed power role the day they claim ensures that is how mafia will behave if cornered: claim a power role and give as little info as possible. Fake claiming to have investigated one's self for sanity and claiming failure to investigate the recently deceased fall under that umbrella. Not undertaking any steps to improve one's claimed investigations also falls under that category.

I believe that you believe this. Therefore, I'm unsure why you are going against that belief by listing what you would normally consider pro-town behavior as reason to find someone scummy.

P.S. - TC's 'give me a better target' line came BEFORE Mara soft claimed cop. It came after the soft claim of power role but before Mara's 'I'm sane' comment. A LOT of players are getting that timeline messed up.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

I believe TC's claim about being coroner more than I believe Mara's claim at being a cop. Seriously... two nights since his soft claim with no evidence to back it up, and he hasn't been off'd by the mafia yet?

 

[Marahumm]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Real quick before I read back on everything I missed (so much **** going on this weekend), I investigated ThunderCat last night phase and he turned up protown.

I promise to be more active this day phase than last, and will post my thoughts on everything in the next post I make.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

I investigated ThunderCat last night phase and he turned up protown.

I've tried to figure out whether I should believe this or not, and all I can come up with is - "My head hurts."

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

Maybe if I put my thoughts into writing they'll clear up.

If Mara is truthful, then we obviously should lynch neither.

If Mara is guessing (i.e., not the cop), and TC turns out to be pro-town if/when a lynch happens, then Mara is home free. Already knows who the townies are, can sell out one of his buddies to make it look good.

If TC turns out to be anti-town, then Mara is SOL and lynched the next day. Huge blow to the mafia.

Seems like a very risky gambit to play, especially when the mafia is technically winning.

 

[Ankeli1]

Re: Ravenwood Retreat Mafia Game.

I re-read yesterday with time and holy airbus, there's nothing there. A few people soft-claiming town and that's really it? Par the info we'd get about the people who wanted TC lynched, it was a really counter productive day. Ugh.

And yes, I agree, last night seems like a doc save.

Gorny would be the worst choice IMO. We got his role by him and then again confirmed by uraj. This also adds a connection in with a lynch of TC because this is a very bad recommendation by you. It would prove nothing of TC's claim, absolutely zero and if he is lynched and show up anti-town you might be next on the block in my eyes.


Uraj told us Feysals role as well.

Why so? Are you afraid that inspecting Gorny would reveal your original target on Night 1? That it'd give us information to bust your brethren? Your play in this game has been reeking of deceit since day 1 to me, another attempt here with Feysal's role, which wasn't revealed.

For me, it's Leo's disappearance that gives the best hint. Leo is plainly listed among the deceased, though it appears that wasn't always the case. Being able to protect one's antitown antics from the coroner makes sense only if there is a coroner. Of course, if TC isn't the coroner, it means he is the one that knows Leo's disposition.

This, this is the single most obvious thing that really screams that TC's story is true. Well this and the fact that Mara claims TC to be pro-town. I'm still undecided whether we can pass a lynch on TC simply due to the information he'd provide...

Real quick before I read back on everything I missed (so much **** going on this weekend), I investigated ThunderCat last night phase and he turned up protown.

I promise to be more active this day phase than last, and will post my thoughts on everything in the next post I make.

The way I see it, there are 2 options. 1) You and TC both are who you claim you are, and you've both just somehow managed to tighten the noose around your necks a little too far. I think this is the most likely option. 2) You and TC are in league as anti-towns, and you've made up a scheme that sounded perfect but in reality was a little over your heads. You'd act as the cop and TC as the coroner. You'd have information about a "kidnapper" role because it'd be a part of your team. The holes in your, and especially TC's stories about his role would support this. The flaw in this thinking is that while TC's alleged role is rare enough to claim on day 1 with no fear of counter claims, yours isn't, and this is what's veering me away from this option, and is making me inclined to believe you both no matter how cheddar TC's claim is.

The question is, can I place my vote on anyone else except TC despite of the fact that I think he's pro-town just due to the informational value? Should I just trust him and draw my conclusions based on that?

I guess I should.

Vote: Bad Ash