Barb vs hammer thoughts

kykle said:
ive got a good way to settle this. ranting to strangers on forums doesnt settle anything and annoys everyone else who is trying to have a civil debate.
1)make your respective character preferences.
2)find a good hdin
3)ft5 a few times each
4)argument solved
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Settle what? That this setup is superior to grief+beast+fort+life charms? There is nothing to debate, the numbers speak for themselves. This barb has everything a grief/beast barb has + more damage and mobility. Did I mention how useful extra frw is?

Your idea wouldn't work since player skills differ. I am sure Ce Olba can elaborate more on that point. What is it with people and their inability/unwillingness to try things themselves? Noone who tries this setup will go back to grief+beast.

Frankly I'm struck by the general attitude of disregarding everything that is new/doesn't fit the established norm quite alot of people show here. How could you ever evolve or get good if you insist on using builds and strategies that worked 2 years ago? In this case you wont't even have to be an experienced barbplayer with a feeling for what might work, nor try it out in-game. The numbers are clear. I rest my case.


 
jaxz said:
I like Griefz/griefz ^^, as my primary weapons.


mmm, but I also like to sue fort + coa versus smiters^^ Then I would use Griefz/beastz^^, 1v1 though.
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I like grief/beast as I zerk alot. The difference is insignificant with enigma though, but with fort grief/grief is vastly superior.


 
mainaman said:
depending on your charm set up grif/grief+ fortitude can give significant dmg out put in later frames compared to grief/beast .the total dmg over 24 frames with 30x3/20/20 is greater by 10k, needess to say thats huge
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You still sound like you include the 4:th frame in this. It's pointless since you'll always be past frame 4 when hitting hammerdins, thus grief+grief is better already from the start and keeps the advantage linearly.


 
Nitpicking commence! :jig:

Adding dex doesn't really help your AR so much. I think it adds something like 1 ar per dex pt invested... really cruddy even when "multiplied" by other sources. (difference in AR will come from gear not really your stat layout)

Harmony would be useful as a running bow, but hitting with it is harder... Whereas with a throw weapon you can have 1 pt in a mastery and boost the AR, shooting a harmony bow significantly reduces your AR because nothing boosts it. (not to mention horrible ias)

The point of this build is to kick and it suprise ppl/kill some pubbies etc. Whats the big hoo-ah?

(For fun you should hostile one of those lame town druids/amazons who cast valks/oaks/grizzlies outside of town and frenzy off of them. And for those of you who are too putoff to put 1pt in frenzy, use one fury on switch)
 
mainaman said:
depending on your charm set up grif/grief+ fortitude can give significant dmg out put in later frames compared to grief/beast .the total dmg over 24 frames with 30x3/20/20 is greater by 10k, needess to say thats huge
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I think you do not generally attempt to tri-ww a hdin. That is madness. Unless he is already low in life while you're still high, and he still namelocks you more, then do a quick simple DoD clock wise would be good. Kills instantly, though you have risk to getting hit, but usually won't. You want to catch him nl you or chargeed across screen while you had already started ww'ing, not before. And with that, even with mcm's tables, ww should have passed the 12th frame mark. Use a stop watch and time yourself. Or ask your friend to help you test. After testing with my friends, it is certain that griefz/griefz even without fort on, has more damage than griefz/beastz. I yet to fight a godly bvc using beast in my realm yet with my bvc who uses dual griefz. But I shouldn't worry as I need to acquire a set of stee lifers before setting off to look for duels, as I am using a half inventory of 5res/19 lifes.

xxxkillerxxx said:
I like grief/beast as I zerk alot. The difference is insignificant with enigma though, but with fort grief/grief is vastly superior.
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Killer question. Do you still maintain the coa on your head with fort grief/grief? Or do you use Grief/beast with enigma/coa on your vita barb.



 
jaxz said:
I think you do not generally attempt to tri-ww a hdin. That is madness. Unless he is already low in life while you're still high, and he still namelocks you more, then do a quick simple DoD clock wise would be good. Kills instantly, though you have risk to getting hit, but usually won't. You want to catch him nl you or chargeed across screen while you had already started ww'ing, not before. And with that, even with mcm's tables, ww should have passed the 12th frame mark. Use a stop watch and time yourself. Or ask your friend to help you test. After testing with my friends, it is certain that griefz/griefz even without fort on, has more damage than griefz/beastz. I yet to fight a godly bvc using beast in my realm yet with my bvc who uses dual griefz. But I shouldn't worry as I need to acquire a set of stee lifers before setting off to look for duels, as I am using a half inventory of 5res/19 lifes.

Killer question. Do you still maintain the coa on your head with fort grief/grief? Or do you use Grief/beast with enigma/coa on your vita barb.
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I use grief/beast on my vita barb, mainly because i zerk alot. If you found grief/grief significantly better dmg-wise with enigma, imagine with fort hehe :)


 
xxxkillerxxx said:
You still sound like you include the 4:th frame in this. It's pointless since you'll always be past frame 4 when hitting hammerdins, thus grief+grief is better already from the start and keeps the advantage linearly.
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actually thats only the 24th frame, my bad .
over frames8 to 24 the diff in dmg is 60k t.t



 
ShazamLies said:
Nitpicking commence! :jig:

Adding dex doesn't really help your AR so much. I think it adds something like 1 ar per dex pt invested... really cruddy even when "multiplied" by other sources. (difference in AR will come from gear not really your stat layout)
Click to expand...

Actually, it's 5 ar per point in Dex. Now, a regular BvC has 27 more Dex than a pure vita one. That means 135 more AR. Now, multiply that by 6.91% for all the +ar% that you get from lvl 9 Fanatiscm and lvl 30 Mastery and lvl 30 Whirlwind. That totals 932.85 more AR. I know, it's not much, actually, it's around a 10% increase in your AR. However, that is not the point. The point is that they have more AR.



 
jaxz said:
I think you do not generally attempt to tri-ww a hdin. That is madness. Unless he is already low in life while you're still high, and he still namelocks you more, then do a quick simple DoD clock wise would be good. Kills instantly, though you have risk to getting hit, but usually won't. You want to catch him nl you or chargeed across screen while you had already started ww'ing, not before. And with that, even with mcm's tables, ww should have passed the 12th frame mark. Use a stop watch and time yourself. Or ask your friend to help you test. After testing with my friends, it is certain that griefz/griefz even without fort on, has more damage than griefz/beastz. I yet to fight a godly bvc using beast in my realm yet with my bvc who uses dual griefz. But I shouldn't worry as I need to acquire a set of stee lifers before setting off to look for duels, as I am using a half inventory of 5res/19 lifes.

Killer question. Do you still maintain the coa on your head with fort grief/grief? Or do you use Grief/beast with enigma/coa on your vita barb.
Click to expand...
I don't remember syaing I 3 ww hammerdins? all i need to do is get in their pths and buff a ww there , or even better (altho riskier) just tele on them while they are charging thats the most dmging imo
By the way how do you know how many frames you will pass while ww-ing? no table can calculate that all that matters is how long you will be in contact with the oponent while wwing



 
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Ce Olba said:
Actually, it's 5 ar per point in Dex. Now, a regular BvC has 27 more Dex than a pure vita one. That means 135 more AR. Now, multiply that by 6.91% for all the +ar% that you get from lvl 9 Fanatiscm and lvl 30 Mastery and lvl 30 Whirlwind. That totals 932.85 more AR. I know, it's not much, actually, it's around a 10% increase in your AR. However, that is not the point. The point is that they have more AR.
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You were the one who brought this irrelevant blabbering up in the first place because you do not read my posts. Either start reading carefully or stop infecting my topic with your ignorance.

As I sidenote my main barb has 36k ar vs hammerdins. Although I did not make any comparision myself (you did since you dont read my posts) this barb will have less are because he's dualwielding grief and most likely gets less ar from charms than a real barb with 33x 20 ar scs.

This is not even relevant though so I don't understand why you even bring it up.


 
mainaman said:
I don't remember syaing I 3 ww hammerdins? all i need to do is get in their psth and buff a ww there , or even better (altho riskier) just tele on them while they are charging thats the most dmging imo
By the way how do you know how many frames you will pass while ww-ing? no table can calculate that all that matters is how long you will be in contact with the oponent while wwing
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I think jaxz just assumed you would short ww since you seemed to include the first 4:th frame in your statement :)


 
mainaman said:
I don't remember syaing I 3 ww hammerdins? all i need to do is get in their psth and buff a ww there , or even better (altho riskier) just tele on them while they are charging thats the most dmging imo
By the way how do you know how many frames you will pass while ww-ing? no table can calculate that all that matters is how long you will be in contact with the oponent while wwing
Click to expand...
Hi Sorry, I had assumed that you were talking about short wws. Okay, I see your point now. Maybe for now, as what I think, there are its pro's and cons to either griefz/beastz or griefz/griefz setup, however I do notice a slightly damage increase ever since I took up killer's challenge! I think I am be able to destroy bone armours faster than before, and I notice more fhr animation occuring on those necs than when I dueled then with griefz/beastz! I think, how about giving it a try, before flaming killer? I know probably it's easier for me because I had a bva somewhere, so I do not need the strength on beastz to wear my coa before pub stomping with it.

But if you claim for for bvc vs bvc, using griefz/beastz might be better due to the higher ar from fanatism, then I don't know. I had not test this setup with the best bvcs in my realm yet. Though the most frequently seen bvc in my realm now is Savage, and NLX (not mcm, who somehow disappeared from pub games.), I may need to get a set of steel/vits charms instead of 32020s before I can say for sure. I am not saying Savage is the best lest someone flames about this, but the truth and fact is they are the barbs having the highest kill rate I've seen in pub stomping. Savage do die and get raped in pubs against casters before, but he is against odds anyway, and 2 desynching hammerdins can be proven tough for even the best of the best bvc. I am saying, how about give it a try, and later input your feedback, cuz You might never know. Times do change, mcm may have shock the barbarian world but doesnt mean no one can learn from him and surpass him. But at least, owing to his magnanimity for sharing, he helped to open the door to research of new ways faster.

That's all I have got to say, but do try it. ^_ .... But, IF, even after creating a new barb just to test and you say you disagree, then I have got nothing more to say. But then you couldn't say it is a waste of time because as a barb fanatic/activist, for it is alright to spent time researching. I used to research too. If you search my post history in cc-comp, you can locate all my arguments against mcm. Deadeye who is using this forum and even had his very own bvc guided posted somewhere in the web, can vouch for this. I too, read Deadeye's and mcm's guides, and watch mcm videos, and design my barb the way he did, in the end I aren't designing my build according to his, but I am not complaining it is a waste of time, am I?



 
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jaxz said:
Hi Sorry, I had assumed that you were talking about short wws. Okay, I see your point now. Maybe for now, as what I think, there are its pro's and cons to either griefz/beastz or griefz/griefz setup, however I do notice a slightly damage increase ever since I took up killer's challenge! I think I am be able to destroy bone armours faster than before, and I notice more fhr animation occuring on those necs than when I dueled then with griefz/beastz! I think, how about giving it a try, before flaming killer? I know probably it's easier for me because I had a bva somewhere, so I do not need the strength on beastz to wear my coa before pub stomping with it.

But if you claim for for bvc vs bvc, using griefz/beastz might be better due to the higher ar from fanatism, then I don't know. I had not test this setup with the best bvcs in my realm yet. Though the most frequently seen bvc in my realm now is Savage, and NLX (not mcm, who somehow disappeared from pub games.), I may need to get a set of steel/vits charms instead of 32020s before I can say for sure. I am not saying Savage is the best lest someone flames about this, but the truth and fact is they are the barbs having the highest kill rate I've seen in pub stomping. Savage do die and get raped in pubs against casters before, but he is against odds anyway, and 2 desynching hammerdins can be proven tough for even the best of the best bvc. I am saying, how about give it a try, and later input your feedback, cuz You might never know. Times do change, mcm may have shock the barbarian world but doesnt mean no one can learn from him and surpass him. But at least, owing to his magnanimity for sharing, he helped to open the door to research of new ways faster.

That's all I have got to say, but do try it. ^_ .... But, IF, even after creating a new barb just to test and you say you disagree, then I have got nothing more to say. But then you couldn't say it is a waste of time because as a barb fanatic/activist, for it is alright to spent time researching. I used to research too. If you search my post history in cc-comp, you can locate all my arguments against mcm. Deadeye who is using this forum and even had his very own bvc guided posted somewhere in the web, can vouch for this. I too, read Deadeye's and mcm's guides, and watch mcm videos, and design my barb the way he did, in the end I aren't designing my build according to his, but I am not complaining it is a waste of time, am I?
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I think mainaman is one of the few who doesn't disagree with me (probably just a misunderstanding) but other than that I condone this post :)

If you lack str you can always use 08 gaze to get dr with grief+grief btw. With shael and the 10% fhr from verdungos you get 30% vs smiters/druids and nice leech vs minions hehe.


 
Hey wow! You two are doing a great job of totally ignoring everything I have said. You can't seem to have a conversation without lacing it with some kind of aggressive undertone, or otherwise resulting to outright insults.

But you know what, I said we weren't going to do this anymore. So, I hope each of you enjoy your two days off.

-Hal
 
xxxkillerxxx said:
I think mainaman is one of the few who doesn't disagree with me (probably just a misunderstanding) but other than that I condone this post :)

If you lack str you can always use 08 gaze to get dr with grief+grief btw. With shael and the 10% fhr from verdungos you get 30% vs smiters/druids and nice leech vs minions hehe.
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Ahh isee, HAhaha

And Btw, Thanks for the tip! Yea leech is the druid killer.



 
Hmm guess I'll try this out o_o

The only reason I went str/dex my own barb [and really I see no other reason] is so I could have the option of killing the crap out of hdins a bit easier with the addition of fort. I should go find another grief, hm
 
jaxz said:
Ahh isee, HAhaha

And Btw, Thanks for the tip! Yea leech is the druid killer.
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you can easily get something like 45 ll only from axes and belt(2xbotd+SOE) slap a gaze on and you are at what 53 ll, now add 2 fcr rings with 9 ll each and you are at 71% ll, thats a druid stomper right there.
You can duel them in a different way , which is more risky and takes some patience , here watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EgliSQklxE



 
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