Barb vs hammer thoughts

xxxkillerxxx

New member
Barb vs hammer thoughts

Since alot of people have obsolete crapbarbs with str/dex added it is time to do something useful with them while you rebuild with pure vita. Why not use them to kill hammers? While pure vita barbs with huge ar and life generally are more effective, the added str/dex can open up for some interesting and entertaining alternatives that allows you to pk some hammers much faster and the build is a backup anyway so don't whine.

Since you only duel hammerdins you'll never need more than 5.5k life (to tank 3 hammers from anyone) so charms will be cheap. I use 13-14max/ar gcs and max/ar/frw but just use whatever max/ar and ar charms you can get hold of. Try to get as much frw from charms as possible without cutting back on dmg/ar.

Basically what you want to do is to have the highest damage output possible so feel free to slap on dual griefs and fort (good thing runewords are free after reset). Use guillaumes ed/ias or arreats if you need the str/dex/ar. Hsarus belt+boots and ravens+hl are usually the best option vs run-of-the-mill hammers and dracs are obvious unless you like the slow+kb on clegs. Keep widow on switch since you don't need high bo (yes it's basically useless alot of the time but doesn't hurt in any way). Depending on how many points you wasted in str/dex you might be able to use shael/um/nef widow, angelics+widow etc etc. Use your brain. When I think of it harmony could work instead of widow, vigor sure would help you out of tight situations.

As much as I hate fort the damage it adds to dual grief barbs is ridiculous. The -50% psn res from griefs invites to going mass poison but it doesn't work vs anyone good (cleansing/antidote prebuf pretty much nullifies it). However, bramble+trangs gloves and dual deaths web on switch is hilarious vs alot of people. If they dont use cleansing they lose over 2k life pretty fast in hell difficulty, and if they dont have enough stacked res to counter -110 from switch they die even faster hehe. Of course this would be far more effective vs other chars but they're not as hard as pallies in the first place.

Vs good (not decent, good) hammers you'll often have to switch to enigma. Use guillaumes and keep demon limb and cta/doom on switch for enchant and hf kill/better life (so they cant kill you with base foh or hoto-smite) and apply normal tele/ww tactics. This is where your main barb is better most of the time since he can tank 4 hammers instead of 3, but on the flip side you have better damage and doom on switch here. Alot of older builds also have more leap and speed which helps.

Anyway the point of this build is to work around the demoralizing normal state where you can punish hammers forever and they still dont die, while minimizing the disadvantage with fort (mobility). Watch out for "wtf" and similar when people die in 2 wws hehe. It's also good for beginners who rely on fort+widow since you dont have to waste stash space on real barb and noone can say using fort once in a while isn't good fun :)
 
indeed the calculations indicate that grief/grief+ fortitude does more dmg after frame 8, which means you will be hitting hammerdins harder than with grief/beast, the dmg outout is not too high though something like 1.5k combned
 
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indeed the calculations indicate that grief/grief+ fortitude does more dmg after frame 8, which means you will be hitting hammerdins harder than with grief/beast.

Of course, much harder. No matter if you're used to enigma or have played grief+beast fort vs hammers in the past you'll notice a significant difference with this setup. Did I mention all equipment is nearly free? :)


 
Since alot of people have obsolete crapbarbs with str/dex added it is time to do something useful with them while you rebuild with pure vita. Why not use them to kill hammers? While pure vita barbs with huge ar and life generally are more effective, the added str/dex can open up for some interesting and entertaining alternatives that allows you to pk some hammers much faster and the build is a backup anyway so don't whine.

Let me point out a few things:
1. Pure Vita BvCs have less AR than ones built with points to dex.
2. With a perfect stats setup, the actual difference in the lifepoints between the two statsetups is about 573.6 life. Now, a lvl 99 barbarian with 660 life from charms and a normal bvc pubsetup will have 6735 life. That means that you are at 7309 life. Now, the increase is 8.5%.

Since you only duel hammerdins you'll never need more than 5.5k life (to tank 3 hammers from anyone)

3 hammers from anyone? How about old-skool, pure-damage hammerdins? They deal 2890 per hit, meaning your barb is dead in 2 hits. Actually, 5.5k life can withstand 3x10.8k hits. Quite standard. However, anyone with more damage and you are up for 2 hits and dead.

so charms will be cheap. I use 13-14max/ar gcs and max/ar/frw but just use whatever max/ar and ar charms you can get hold of. Try to get as much frw from charms as possible without cutting back on dmg/ar.

Excuse me Prince Charming, but with no +life from your charms, you are looking at 5731 life at lvl 99 with a pure vitality build. Oh wait, Angelics! That means, with lvl 99 and a pure vita build, you got yourself 6006 life. And that's PURE VITALITY! Want to hear the number with 63/47? Oh wait, that number is 5432. So, where is your 5.5k life now? Oh, and you can withstand 3 hits from anyone doing 10650 damage or less.

When I think of it harmony could work instead of widow, vigor sure would help you out of tight situations.

Then how about you use those brains of yours and realize that any half-assed Hammerdin won't be hit by a regular arrow. And that's the difference between Harmony and Widowmaker. Widowmaker has Guided Arrow, Harmony doesn't.

As much as I hate fort the damage it adds to dual grief barbs is ridiculous. The -50% psn res from griefs invites to going mass poison but it doesn't work vs anyone good (cleansing/antidote prebuf pretty much nullifies it). However, bramble+trangs gloves and dual deaths web on switch is hilarious vs alot of people. If they dont use cleansing they lose over 2k life pretty fast in hell difficulty, and if they dont have enough stacked res to counter -110 from switch they die even faster hehe. Of course this would be far more effective vs other chars but they're not as hard as pallies in the first place.

How about you use those brains of yours again and think about how little damage 37x290's would add with Venom in play. Oh right, that's 377 damage. For 37 charms with ONLY POISON! Hah!

Use guillaumes and keep demon limb and cta/doom on switch for enchant

Use those brains of yours for a third time and realize that lvl 23 Enchant has a duration of 672 seconds. That's 11 minutes. Now, tell me, what kind of a duel lasts for over 11 minutes?

It's also good for beginners who rely on fort+widow since you dont have to waste stash space on real barb and noone can say using fort once in a while isn't good fun :)

Use those brains of yours again and realize that Fortitude adds a significant boost to your damage. Actually, it adds 39.2% damage. That's quite a lot! So what exactly about having 40% more damage is "waste"? Yes, there is a simple strategy to beat Fortitude Barbarians, but so far I've never seen anyone use it. So why make such a huge fuss about it being "waste"?



 
Let me point out a few things:
1. Pure Vita BvCs have less AR than ones built with points to dex.
2. With a perfect stats setup, the actual difference in the lifepoints between the two statsetups is about 573.6 life. Now, a lvl 99 barbarian with 660 life from charms and a normal bvc pubsetup will have 6735 life. That means that you are at 7309 life. Now, the increase is 8.5%.
1. Link to where I said otherwise?
2. I have 8.6k life vs hammers. Next?

3 hammers from anyone? How about old-skool, pure-damage hammerdins? They deal 2890 per hit, meaning your barb is dead in 2 hits. Actually, 5.5k life can withstand 3x10.8k hits. Quite standard. However, anyone with more damage and you are up for 2 hits and dead.
5.5k life tanks 3x 16k dmg hammers before dying. Let me know when you've found a pvp hammerdin with 17k damage or better yet, theorycraft up what such a pvp hammerdin would use. You're used to that.

Excuse me Prince Charming, but with no +life from your charms, you are looking at 5731 life at lvl 99 with a pure vitality build. Oh wait, Angelics! That means, with lvl 99 and a pure vita build, you got yourself 6006 life. And that's PURE VITALITY! Want to hear the number with 63/47? Oh wait, that number is 5432. So, where is your 5.5k life now? Oh, and you can withstand 3 hits from anyone doing 10650 damage or less.
Why these aggressive insults? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.
Just use your brain and get enough life to tank 3 hammers from whatever hdin you're dueling. Your 5.4k life barb can still tank 3 x 16k hammers before dying.

Then how about you use those brains of yours and realize that any half-assed Hammerdin won't be hit by a regular arrow. And that's the difference between Harmony and Widowmaker. Widowmaker has Guided Arrow, Harmony doesn't.
Why this aggressive stance? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.
No good hammerdin will get bothered by widow either. I clearly wrote that. Only newbies think they duel good people when widow works. It's easy to namelock a hammerdin and hit them with throw or regular arrows, I do it all the time so again reality > your theories.

How about you use those brains of yours again and think about how little damage 37x290's would add with Venom in play. Oh right, that's 377 damage. For 37 charms with ONLY POISON! Hah!
Link to where I said you should trigger venom. As usual you dont bother reading so why argue?

Use those brains of yours for a third time and realize that lvl 23 Enchant has a duration of 672 seconds. That's 11 minutes. Now, tell me, what kind of a duel lasts for over 11 minutes?
Why this aggressive stance? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.
And your point is? Mine was obviously that it's annoying to run back and forth to stash so you might as well keep limb on switch since you dont need life. Yours?


Use those brains of yours again and realize that Fortitude adds a significant boost to your damage. Actually, it adds 39.2% damage. That's quite a lot! So what exactly about having 40% more damage is "waste"? Yes, there is a simple strategy to beat Fortitude Barbarians, but so far I've never seen anyone use it. So why make such a huge fuss about it being "waste"?
Why this aggressive stance? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.

You never dueled anyone good, I can beat fortitude barbarians with one hand tied behind my back with hammer and smiter and I'm a barb player lol. Two simple questions that comes to mind are:
What's this "simple" strategy and why haven't you seen anyone using it if it's so simple lol?

I recall that I told you to stop trying to calculate things since you're really horrible at it. Fortitude does not add 40% more damage than enigma. Especially not on your inferior grief+beast barb.


 
1. Link to where I said otherwise?
2. I have 8.6k life vs hammers. Next?

1. You spoke of "huge AR" in favor of the pure vita barb when comparing it to the str/dex build. It's the same as saying "it has more/enough ar".

2. Nice, how much time do you spend prebuffing?

5.5k life tanks 3x 16k dmg hammers before dying. Let me know when you've found a pvp hammerdin with 17k damage or better yet, theorycraft up what such a pvp hammerdin would use. You're used to that.

I've seen 17k damage hammerdins. They were quite popular about a year ago, before Spirit-based barbarians became so popular.

5.5k life barely tanks 2 hits from 16 000 damage. 16 000 * 0.17. That gives you 2720, right? That means they only need to actually have 16176 damage to kill you in 2 hits.

Point is, you don't take "3 hits from any hammerdin".

Why these aggressive insults? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.

They aren't aggressive, I'm only using the same form of words you yourself used.

Just use your brain and get enough life to tank 3 hammers from whatever hdin you're dueling. Your 5.4k life barb can still tank 3 x 16k hammers before dying.

Exactly what in 8160 damage sounds like 5400 life lost to you?

Why this aggressive stance? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.

Again, I'm only using your own words.

No good hammerdin will get bothered by widow either. I clearly wrote that. Only newbies think they duel good people when widow works. It's easy to namelock a hammerdin and hit them with throw or regular arrows, I do it all the time so again reality > your theories.

So, when was the last time you hit a desynching hammerdins several times with a normal arrow that goes in a linear, straight path?

Link to where I said you should trigger venom. As usual you dont bother reading so why argue?

You're using Griefs and suggesting the usage of Venom. Swap your weapons while your arrows are still mid-air and they can trigger your CtC Venom.

Why this aggressive stance? I suggest you read Halciet's topic again, apparently you didn't get it.

Read post #1, lines 13 and 14.

And your point is? Mine was obviously that it's annoying to run back and forth to stash so you might as well keep limb on switch since you dont need life. Yours?

My point was that it's pointless to have Demonlimb on your swap since you're already using prebuff yourself. A quarter of a second cannot really piss someone off, can it?

You never dueled anyone good, I can beat fortitude barbarians with one hand tied behind my back with hammer and smiter and I'm a barb player lol. Two simple questions that comes to mind are:
What's this "simple" strategy and why haven't you seen anyone using it if it's so simple lol?

Let's see. I've never dueled anyone good? Oh wait, I've just about dueled the best players on Europe realm. And yes, I got beaten quite badly, but that's not a part of the argument.

And the simple strategy is to take advantage of the lack of teleport and trap the barbarian in a field of hammers so that wherever he goes, he is bound to be hit by hammers.

I recall that I told you to stop trying to calculate things since you're really horrible at it. Fortitude does not add 40% more damage than enigma. Especially not on your inferior grief+beast barb.

Fortitude adds 40% damage to my BvC. And I don't suck at calculating stuff, you do. If you don't realize that it's more or less 40%, you have some issues.

(TotalED%+FortitudeED%)/TotalED%= Increase%. So simple.

So, watch me:
Code:
765% ED with pubsetup. Arreat's adds 20%, taking away Enigma makes that -49%. Now, adding Fortitude makes that +251%. So we get this:
(765+251)/765=
1016/765=
0.32810458%

Yeah, I might've hastily put in a wrong number, but it's only 6.2% off.



 
Since you never bother to read my posts I wont even worthy your pathetic theories and blabbering with an answer this time. You're just whining cause I proved you wrong countless times and you're still worse at math than I was at age ten.

Frankly I suspect the reason you're upset is because the barb posted here is more effective than yours vs hammerdins, and my main barb is more effective than yours vs everything. You're just mad cause you didn't think of it first. 25k poison damage can be amazing btw but how could you know, you never tried it as usual lol.

You can't deny that this build got everything, superior dmg/speed/effectiveness and ease-of-use while still tanking the same amounts of hammers as your barb lol. To tank 4 hammers you need to build a real barb like my pure vita so yours wont cut it anyway :)

With your attitude of disregarding anything new (that doesn't come from this mcm or mojortos) you'll never be good at this game. Just a hint :)
 
hdins this, hdins that
just get your bnec or eledru and 50/50 a hdin instead of hoping to kill one

bnecs and eles are on par with hdins vs each other, just do that
instead of wasting like 2-5 minutes of cat n mouse with bvh
 
hdins this, hdins that
just get your bnec or eledru and 50/50 a hdin instead of hoping to kill one

bnecs and eles are on par with hdins vs each other, just do that
instead of wasting like 2-5 minutes of cat n mouse with bvh
i dare say nec shatters hammerdins if played right, and well built and played hammerdin can come on top of a druid imo.



 
hdins this, hdins that
just get your bnec or eledru and 50/50 a hdin instead of hoping to kill one

bnecs and eles are on par with hdins vs each other, just do that
instead of wasting like 2-5 minutes of cat n mouse with bvh

I personally have a really fun time in BvH playing either character. Win or not it's just a fun duel to have.



 
hdins this, hdins that
just get your bnec or eledru and 50/50 a hdin instead of hoping to kill one

bnecs and eles are on par with hdins vs each other, just do that
instead of wasting like 2-5 minutes of cat n mouse with bvh

I do better vs top hdins with barb than with nec. I'm not bad on nec either.


 
Since alot of people have obsolete crapbarbs with str/dex added it is time to do something useful with them while you rebuild with pure vita. Why not use them to kill hammers? While pure vita barbs with huge ar and life generally are more effective, the added str/dex can open up for some interesting and entertaining alternatives that allows you to pk some hammers much faster and the build is a backup anyway so don't whine.

Since you only duel hammerdins you'll never need more than 5.5k life (to tank 3 hammers from anyone) so charms will be cheap. I use 13-14max/ar gcs and max/ar/frw but just use whatever max/ar and ar charms you can get hold of. Try to get as much frw from charms as possible without cutting back on dmg/ar.

Basically what you want to do is to have the highest damage output possible so feel free to slap on dual griefs and fort (good thing runewords are free after reset). Use guillaumes ed/ias or arreats if you need the str/dex/ar. Hsarus belt+boots and ravens+hl are usually the best option vs run-of-the-mill hammers and dracs are obvious unless you like the slow+kb on clegs. Keep widow on switch since you don't need high bo (yes it's basically useless alot of the time but doesn't hurt in any way). Depending on how many points you wasted in str/dex you might be able to use shael/um/nef widow, angelics+widow etc etc. Use your brain. When I think of it harmony could work instead of widow, vigor sure would help you out of tight situations.

As much as I hate fort the damage it adds to dual grief barbs is ridiculous. The -50% psn res from griefs invites to going mass poison but it doesn't work vs anyone good (cleansing/antidote prebuf pretty much nullifies it). However, bramble+trangs gloves and dual deaths web on switch is hilarious vs alot of people. If they dont use cleansing they lose over 2k life pretty fast in hell difficulty, and if they dont have enough stacked res to counter -110 from switch they die even faster hehe. Of course this would be far more effective vs other chars but they're not as hard as pallies in the first place.

This is a BvB with extra items in stash. Nothing really new.

Vs good (not decent, good) hammers you'll often have to switch to enigma. Use guillaumes and keep demon limb and cta/doom on switch for enchant and hf kill/better life (so they cant kill you with base foh or hoto-smite) and apply normal tele/ww tactics. This is where your main barb is better most of the time since he can tank 4 hammers instead of 3, but on the flip side you have better damage and doom on switch here. Alot of older builds also have more leap and speed which helps.

Anyway the point of this build is to work around the demoralizing normal state where you can punish hammers forever and they still dont die, while minimizing the disadvantage with fort (mobility). Watch out for "wtf" and similar when people die in 2 wws hehe. It's also good for beginners who rely on fort+widow since you dont have to waste stash space on real barb and noone can say using fort once in a while isn't good fun :)

Now it's more BvA.

How much more damage does Grief/Grief/Fort do over Grief/Beast/Fort, as the damage of either is multiplied by Forti's ED? I mean if its not by alot, I see no reason to rebuild another one of the.....
...obsolete crapbarbs



 
How much more damage does Grief/Grief/Fort do over Grief/Beast/Fort, as the damage of either is multiplied by Forti's ED? I mean if its not by alot, I see no reason to rebuild another one of the.....
depending on your charm set up grif/grief+ fortitude can give significant dmg out put in later frames compared to grief/beast .the total dmg over 24 frames with 30x3/20/20 is greater by 10k, needess to say thats huge



 
ive got a good way to settle this. ranting to strangers on forums doesnt settle anything and annoys everyone else who is trying to have a civil debate.
1)make your respective character preferences.
2)find a good hdin
3)ft5 a few times each
4)argument solved
 
This is a BvB with extra items in stash. Nothing really new.


Now it's more BvA.

How much more damage does Grief/Grief/Fort do over Grief/Beast/Fort, as the damage of either is multiplied by Forti's ED? I mean if its not by alot, I see no reason to rebuild another one of the.....

Point is to regear old chars that you dont use with free gear. This way you wont have to infect stash on your real barb with newbie gear like fort/widow or waste points in str/dex. Since you only need 5.5k life you are also able to use interesting charms you wouldn't want to use otherwise (frw to decrease disadvantage of fort is king).

The total damage output is increased by ~15% compared to grief+beast. You also get the bonus of interrupting the hammer with nearly every hit which won't happen with beast. This is extremely useful.

Anyone who tries grief+grief will immediately see the superiority over grief+beast.


 
I like Griefz/griefz ^^, as my primary weapons.


mmm, but I also like to sue fort + coa versus smiters^^ Then I would use Griefz/beastz^^, 1v1 though.
 
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