Suggestions Needed! Switching from WWS to Windforce

[MaStAViC]

Suggestions Needed! Switching from WWS to Windforce

Hi, Everyone,
How are you? I have read approximately a dozen threads concerning Witchwild String (WWS) and Windforce, but still had a few questions left, and I would also like specific recommendations.

My girlfriend's Amazon has been using an upped 166%ED Witchwild String (WWS) for a while, but I am thinking about getting her a Windforce because I just acquired an IST rune, which is enough to get a Windforce on USWest Ladder Softcore.

Her primary skill is Strafe, and she is hitting the 9/2 Strafe attack speed frame with 100%IAS. If I get her a Windforce, I will socket accordingly so that she can still hit the same attack speed frame. I have read threads where people stated that for the Windforce, it is recommended that it hit a different breakpiont. If this is so, why is that?

Should I get her a Windforce, or is the upgraded WWS good enough? She wants to be an overall monster killer in Hell difficulty, including in 8-player games.

The following is her current gear:
Cat's Eye Amulet (20%IAS)
Nosterafu Coil Belt (10%IAS)
Laying of Hands (20%IAS)
Tal Rasha's Helm socketed with IAS Jewel (15%IAS)
Two Raven Frost Rings
War Traveler Boots
Duriel's Shell

Should she be switching to a Windforce? Is it a better bow? Also, I am looking to replace her boots and armor, but have not found substitutes yet. I cannot afford Fortitude or really expensive armors just yet. Currently, her resistances in Hell is a major problem when she gets hit, so the Duriel's Shell helps. I am planning to either socket the Duriel Shell or the Windforce with a 15%IAS jewel so that she can reach the 9/2 Strafe breakpoint.

Any suggestions whatsoever would be geratly appreciated. Thank you!
Victor Ly
*mastavic

 

[windwingwind]

Hi, Everyone,How are you?

I'm fine, thank you, how are you?

Her primary skill is Strafe, and she is hitting the 9/2 Strafe attack speed frame with 100%IAS. If I get her a Windforce, I will socket accordingly so that she can still hit the same attack speed frame. I have read threads where people stated that for the Windforce, it is recommended that it hit a different breakpiont. If this is so, why is that?

I think 9/2 is fine. I suppose you know that due to different weapon base speed Windforce need 120% ias to reach 9/2.

Should I get her a Windforce, or is the upgraded WWS good enough? She wants to be an overall monster killer in Hell difficulty, including in 8-player games.

Definitely. I love WWS yet I cab't deny that windforce is more brutal. But even with windforce I doubt she can 'be an overall monster killer in Hell difficulty, including in 8-player games'.....well it's easier if she get a faith merc too.

Also, I am looking to replace her boots and armor, but have not found substitutes yet. I cannot afford Fortitude or really expensive armors just yet. Currently, her resistances in Hell is a major problem when she gets hit, so the Duriel's Shell helps. I am planning to either socket the Duriel Shell or the Windforce with a 15%IAS jewel so that she can reach the 9/2 Strafe breakpoint.

If you can't afford fortitude, the best budget substitutes is treachy. Resist isn't a problem. Mine bowazons ran around with negative resist . Just becareful in areas with soul....

 

[MaStAViC]

I'm fine, thank you, how are you

Thank you for replying. Glad to hear you're doing well; I'm also fine.

I think 9/2 is fine. I suppose you know that due to different weapon base speed Windforce need 120% ias to reach 9/2.]

Thanks for pointing this out. I saw in about three threads a similar statement, but am still slightly confused, actually. I see that the hydra bow has a Weapon Speed Modifier (WSM) value of 10, but Windforce has a 20%IAS mod on it, which should put the Windforce to -10%IAS, right? With that, wouldn't I only need 76%IAS more to reach the 9/2 breakpoint? Below is the IAS breakpoint table that I found for Strafe using WWS:

13/3 - 0% IAS
12/3 - 9% IAS
11/3 - 20% IAS
10/3 - 37% IAS
9/3 - 63% IAS
9/2 - 86% IAS
8/2 - 105% IAS
7/2 - 200% IAS

Do different bows have different breakpoints? I haven't really played Diablo in a while and cannot clearly remember that. If so, can you (or someone else) provide me with Windforce's breakpoints? Thank you.

Definitely. I love WWS yet I cab't deny that windforce is more brutal. But even with windforce I doubt she can 'be an overall monster killer in Hell difficulty, including in 8-player games'.....well it's easier if she get a faith merc too.

I do not think I will be able to afford a Faith runeword anytime soon, as the only good item I have is the IST rune (I have other uniques, such as a Shako, which is by far my second best item, but my magic find Sorceress is using it). I tried following KremBananX's Amazon with Windforce and A1 FaithMerc Guide but found out that I could not even afford a tenth of the items listed in that guide.

If you can't afford fortitude, the best budget substitutes is treachy. Resist isn't a problem. Mine bowazons ran around with negative resist . Just becareful in areas with soul....

Glad to hear my girlfriend's Amazon isn't the only one low on resistances =P

Thanks again for all the information thus far!
Victor Ly
*mastavic

 

[lazerlight]

Thanks for pointing this out. I saw in about three threads a similar statement, but am still slightly confused, actually. I see that the hydra bow has a Weapon Speed Modifier (WSM) value of 10, but Windforce has a 20%IAS mod on it, which should put the Windforce to -10%IAS, right? With that, wouldn't I only need 76%IAS more to reach the 9/2 breakpoint? Below is the IAS breakpoint table that I found for Strafe using WWS:

13/3 - 0% IAS
12/3 - 9% IAS
11/3 - 20% IAS
10/3 - 37% IAS
9/3 - 63% IAS
9/2 - 86% IAS
8/2 - 105% IAS
7/2 - 200% IAS

Do different bows have different breakpoints? I haven't really played Diablo in a while and cannot clearly remember that. If so, can you (or someone else) provide me with Windforce's breakpoints? Thank you.

I think you're having trouble understand WSM. The WSM of a bow never changes, no matter what kind of ias mods are on the bow... or any mods for that matter. The 20% ias that comes on the windforce is simply added to your total ias for the character and is no different from getting 20% ias from an andy's visage or cat's eye. So, what I'm trying to say, is that you will still need 120% total ias for the windforce to hit the 9/2 breakpoint - which is 100% additional ias from your equipment/windforce socket to reach it. To be honest, trying to get to 120% ias might hinder your options for the rest of your equipment, and I would personally try to aim for a 9/3 strafe (9 frame normal attack) at 90% ias. You could then use atma's scarab and still let your girlfriend retain her amp damage to deal with most physical immunes.

Hope this helps.

 

[MaStAViC]

I think you're having trouble understand WSM. The WSM of a bow never changes, no matter what kind of ias mods are on the bow... or any mods for that matter. The 20% ias that comes on the windforce is simply added to your total ias for the character and is no different from getting 20% ias from an andy's visage or cat's eye. So, what I'm trying to say, is that you will still need 120% total ias for the windforce to hit the 9/2 breakpoint - which is 100% additional ias from your equipment/windforce socket to reach it. To be honest, trying to get to 120% ias might hinder your options for the rest of your equipment, and I would personally try to aim for a 9/3 strafe (9 frame normal attack) at 90% ias. You could then use atma's scarab and still let your girlfriend retain her amp damage to deal with most physical immunes.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for the information. I actually do understand WSM, though I may have phrased it poorly earlier. In any case, I appreciate your explanation. What is the Strafe breakpoints for a Windforce/Hydra Bow? I can't seem to find it anywhere and only have the Strafe breaks for a WWS/Short Siege Bow.

Thank you,
Victor Ly
*mastavic

 

[lazerlight]

ok, sorry, it just sounded like you thought that the 20% ias on a windforce would change its WSM from 10 to -10... which it doesn't.

Here's a link to all of the breakpoints you need for both strafe and normal attack: (Just look under wsm 10 for windforce)

http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183692

 

[MaStAViC]

ok, sorry, it just sounded like you thought that the 20% ias on a windforce would change its WSM from 10 to -10... which it doesn't.

Here's a link to all of the breakpoints you need for both strafe and normal attack: (Just look under wsm 10 for windforce)

http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183692

No need for your to apologize; I see how you could have interpreted what I said incorrectly. Thanks a lot for the link to the table! Looking at it, I will need 120%IAS to hit the 9/2 frame, like you said. The following is the gear I am planning to use (can you make sure this will bring me to the 9/2 frame?):
Laying of Hands Gloves (20%IAS)
Cat's Eye Amulet (20%IAS)
Windforce's set mod (20%IAS)
SHAEL rune in Windforce (20%IAS)
Andariel's Visage Demonhead Helm (20%IAS)
15%IAS jewel in Helm (15%IAS)
Nosterafu's Coil Belt (10%IAS)

This should add up to 125%IAS, enabling the Amazon to Strafe at the 9/2 frame. If there are any other suggestions, I'd really like to hear them.

Thank you so much!
Victor Ly

 

[Lyrs]

I opted not to have any decent res, instead opting for ias and dmg. However, here's what I would do:

Make any of the following armors:
Lion Heart
Hel + Lum + Fal
Good mods and good res.

Smoke
Nef + Lum
+50 all res is the major thing here

And as already recommended, Treachery.

 

[MaStAViC]

I opted not to have any decent res, instead opting for ias and dmg. However, here's what I would do:

Make any of the following armors:
Lion Heart
Hel + Lum + Fal
Good mods and good res.

Smoke
Nef + Lum
+50 all res is the major thing here

And as already recommended, Treachery.

Thanks for the recommendations. I will most likely make a Lionheart runeword armor... after I get a Windforce, Andarial's Visage, and a good 3-socket armor =P

Thanks!
Victor Ly

 

[AnimeCraze]

Treachery for 45 IAS. This will get you enough IAS to get an Atma's scarab for very speedy kills.

 

[NASE]

changing away from wws. the question that I have is, what have you don't with cs? If you haven't giving out points in cs, cause wws has ds anyway, then you are loosing a lot of damage. If you count in the possible lost of the /2 breakpoint, and I wonder if changing is even a good points - I know you won't, but anyway?
Perhaps you will be better served by getting her other gear up, or getting more ed on that wws. I'm thinking of razortails to shoot her pierce up, perhaps ias helm or armour so she can nef the wws for knockback, or going for giant skull for the knockback?
If you do plan on changing to ws, certainly hit the /2 breakpoint and perhaps try to get gear wise ds. Highlords come to mind, as does gores. Lacking ds/cs seems more important then amp. you can always carry the wws on switch.


P.S. note that wws has 40 res and wf has none. So wf is even less res, not that it should be problem, though perhaps it is.

 

[MaStAViC]

changing away from wws. the question that I have is, what have you don't with cs? If you haven't giving out points in cs, cause wws has ds anyway, then you are loosing a lot of damage. If you count in the possible lost of the /2 breakpoint, and I wonder if changing is even a good points - I know you won't, but anyway?

Thank you for replying. After you pointed out that not having Critical Strike/Deadly Strike may be a problem, I have been spending quite a few days thinking it over. For most of that time, I considered not switching to Windforce. However, the Amazon has about 6 skill points remaining, so if I put all of them into Critical Strike, there will be a 46% chance that the skill will kick in. With that in mind, I am thinking about getting her Windforce.

Perhaps you will be better served by getting her other gear up, or getting more ed on that wws.

Her WWS is 166%, which is just 4% short of the potential 170%.

P.S. note that wws has 40 res and wf has none. So wf is even less res, not that it should be problem, though perhaps it is.

That shouldn't be a problem, and I really hope it won't be. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[maiku]

Yes, adding to Critical Strike will definitely help her WWS build transition to a more normal bowazon build. 5-10 points should be good. Atma's is also a superb little amulet.

 

[Anri]

I'd definitely switch to the Windforce. While WWS is decent, there is simply no way it can keep up with Windforce, specially if you add an Atma's Scarab (to counter WWS' Amp advantage) and enough IAS on the WF setup (probably from armor).

 

[MaStAViC]

The following is the gear setup that I am thinking about, but it does not include Atma's Scarab. If I switch my amulet from Cat's Eye to Atma's Scarab, I would be down to 105%IAS, which puts me at 15%IAS short of the 9/2 frame. In this case, I may have to use Treachary, but am not sure which items I should switch out.

Laying of Hands Gloves (20%IAS)
Cat's Eye Amulet (20%IAS)
Windforce's set mod (20%IAS)
SHAEL rune in Windforce (20%IAS)
Andariel's Visage Demonhead Helm (20%IAS)
15%IAS jewel in Helm (15%IAS)
Nosterafu's Coil Belt (10%IAS)
War Travelers Battle Boots
Raven Frost Rings (2 of them)
Lionheart Runeword armor

Please advise; thank you,
Victor Ly

 

[Barrynor]

Hey Vic,

Dunno how much IAS you need, but consider switching the Coil for Raizortail. 33% added pierce will greatly enhance your damage output. It would almost be worth it to add a 60% IAS armor with some good 2nd mods to the mix if you want speed. However, Raizortail combined with Atma's Scarab and a decent rate (9/3 is manageble here I think) will cause massive damage against any and every target as with Atma and a little patience even the physical immumes will die. And you'd be able to keep the Lionheart which is a very, very nice runeword and gets you an A for style.

Cheerio,

//Barry

 

[maiku]

I would definitely switch out the Cat's Eye and put in an Atma's Scarab. Cat's Eye works well with the Witchyzon build because of the 20% IAS and extra dex. You don't need find a source of Amp because WWS provides it. With WF, I'd think you really want to take advantage of that high damage with Amp from Atma's. If Critical Strike and Amp are both in effect, you will be doing 4X damage.

 

[MaStAViC]

I would definitely switch out the Cat's Eye and put in an Atma's Scarab. Cat's Eye works well with the Witchyzon build because of the 20% IAS and extra dex. You don't need find a source of Amp because WWS provides it. With WF, I'd think you really want to take advantage of that high damage with Amp from Atma's. If Critical Strike and Amp are both in effect, you will be doing 4X damage.

Hi, Mike,
Thank you for the advice. Any idea what the best way to reach 120%IAS? I am struggling to figure out which armor I should use.

Thanks,
Victor Ly
*mastavic

 

[maiku]

It has to come from the armor. That's the last place you can get any IAS from.

Easy option: Twitchthroe. If you keep the Nosferatu's Coil and upgraded the Twitch using the Cube recipes and socketed it with a good all resist jewel or um to cover resistances, that might be all that's required. Or swap out Nos Coil, socket Twitch with a good IAS jewel (preferably one with 10-15 all resist), and put in Razortail to help increase damage and pierce further.

Mid-level: Treachery. Get a good defense 3os Dusk Shroud, Wyrm Hide, or Wire Fleece and make Treachery (Shael Thul Lem, IIRC). This is currently what my Witchyzon uses. You can pre-buff with Fade, if careful, to make up for lost resistances. It is one of my favorite armors, aside from Lionheart.

Creative approach: get a 3 or 4 open-socketed armor, such as a Dusk or Wyrmhide, and find or trade for good IAS jewels to socket in it. Whatever else is lacking, such as life, resists, etc. make up with jewels, runes, or perfect gems. What to put in it depends on whether you keep the Nosferatu belt or not.

This is just a theoretical example, but one could create a 4-socketed armor with...

2-3 IAS jewels w/ 10-15 resist all on them or
2-3 IAS 25-30 resist in fire, lightning, and cold
+15 max damage jewel (as a 4th jewel)
Perfect Ruby for more life
Perfect Emerald for more dexterity
Um (for more resists)

Depends on how her bowazon was built and what her strengths and weaknesses are.

Hope this helps.

 

[MaStAViC]

Thank you. In regards to the Nosterafu's Coil/Razortail debate, her Amazon already has very high pierce due to investment in the Pierce skills. I'll look over the replies for a bit. Feel free to offer more suggestions. Thank you.