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Vessel of Hatred

[won by mafia] 2d3 game normal, no lore, just lynching [Game Thread]

Actually @Skjolde what is your opinion on Gorny's heavy handed play style? I'm getting the impression there is a reluctant to confront him from many players and he's using that to his advantage.

If he was mafia, he could use this to steamroll his team to victory, I have seen it used in games before.
 
Zhao_Yue said:
Actually @Skjolde what is your opinion on Gorny's heavy handed play style? I'm getting the impression there is a reluctant to confront him from many players and he's using that to his advantage.

If he was mafia, he could use this to steamroll his team to victory, I have seen it used in games before.
Click to expand...
On mobile so bear with me.

My personal reluctance is that I'm not that suspicious of him. He has played VERY heavy handed towards BH which turned out town. He then basically makes a post, that could be interpretated as be doing the same as what he accused BH.
So he leads the charge on killing a townie.
The next day he makes same mistake as he accused the now dead townie of and thereby draws ALL the heat.

In my mind, with my understanding of Gorny as a very seasoned and knowledgeable player.. isn't this just all to perfect? This is the exact low hanging fruit, that scum would need today in the first 24 hours of D2 to just run wild with it and put all focus on this for rest if D2.

Now is Gorny not at all suspicious? He certainly is. But, he is not the one that I am the most suspicious of and therefore I'm really just pulling the breaks on this impending lynch train.
 
Skjolde said:
On mobile so bear with me.

My personal reluctance is that I'm not that suspicious of him. He has played VERY heavy handed towards BH which turned out town. He then basically makes a post, that could be interpretated as be doing the same as what he accused BH.
So he leads the charge on killing a townie.
The next day he makes same mistake as he accused the now dead townie of and thereby draws ALL the heat.

In my mind, with my understanding of Gorny as a very seasoned and knowledgeable player.. isn't this just all to perfect? This is the exact low hanging fruit, that scum would need today in the first 24 hours of D2 to just run wild with it and put all focus on this for rest if D2.

Now is Gorny not at all suspicious? He certainly is. But, he is not the one that I am the most suspicious of and therefore I'm really just pulling the breaks on this impending lynch train.
Click to expand...

Not to be that guy, but is there really an impending lynch train that you are pulling the brakes on? I see coju and zhao discussing what Gorny did in the previous day phase, and then Zhao is asking you for your feedback. Not a single vote has been laid out since coju's early vote on me so it doesn't seem like anyone is ready to jump the gun here, and everything before that was hardly related to Gorny since he wasn't around.
 
My post before this discussion of Gorny took place encompassed all players, with varying levels of scummy activity, so in my mind you guys all have reason to be suspect at least a little bit.
 
Pyrotechnician said:
Not to be that guy, but is there really an impending lynch train that you are pulling the brakes on? I see coju and zhao discussing what Gorny did in the previous day phase, and then Zhao is asking you for your feedback. Not a single vote has been laid out since coju's early vote on me so it doesn't seem like anyone is ready to jump the gun here, and everything before that was hardly related to Gorny since he wasn't around.
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I don't know. Maybe I worded it strongly, but I could have seen it happen.
Maybe I should have said something preemptive pulling the brakes.

But I also stand by the rest that I wrote, if you would like to address that.
 
Zhao_Yue said:
Sorry buddy, got busy and couldn't get around to it.

Let me summerize and throw an idea at you and tell me what you think:
- coju declares that within 3 voters (pyro, gorny and D2DC), 1 is mafia
- what if he's trying to draw our attention there so it's away from those not voting BH (coju, snickersnack and Noodle)
- there's a saying in mafia games, "don't look for what's there, but look for what's not there"
- mafia teams like to distance themselves from each other so coju votes Gorny and his partner (snickersnack or Noodle) doesn't vote
- let the townies bicker amongst themselves while the mafia team stays back
- the mafia team can just go down the list and push lynches, wasting the towns time
Click to expand...
For this to happen, they would have needed to be online and ready vote. Not that it isn't plausible, I must just stress how close we actually were to a no lynch. 15 mins left and you placed the lynching vote. That is pretty ice cold if there is NO scum voting for BH and with 15 mins left they are still waiting.

It is completely plausible. But I think we can find at least one scum amongst the 5 voters. That's my gut feeling for now at least.
 
2 things:

@ccoju nice of you to quote only part of my post. You cleverly left out the part where I said that I'm not inviting out possible PR to come forward.

@Pyrotechnician :

Your post concerning all players with varying levels of scummy activity and we are all sus...

Would be a perfect WIFOM post for a scum to hide behind
 
I'm gonna go to bed. Need to be up in 5 hours again.

See you on the other side of the timezones
 
Skjolde said:
On mobile so bear with me.

My personal reluctance is that I'm not that suspicious of him. He has played VERY heavy handed towards BH which turned out town. He then basically makes a post, that could be interpretated as be doing the same as what he accused BH.
So he leads the charge on killing a townie.
The next day he makes same mistake as he accused the now dead townie of and thereby draws ALL the heat.

In my mind, with my understanding of Gorny as a very seasoned and knowledgeable player.. isn't this just all to perfect? This is the exact low hanging fruit, that scum would need today in the first 24 hours of D2 to just run wild with it and put all focus on this for rest if D2.

Now is Gorny not at all suspicious? He certainly is. But, he is not the one that I am the most suspicious of and therefore I'm really just pulling the breaks on this impending lynch train.
Click to expand...
What is your impression on Gorny claiming Noodle is town, are you confident in his assertion?
 
Pyrotechnician said:
6. snickersnack - Did not vote for BH, "joke" voted for D2DC and then unvoted. Was involved in the discussion late in the day phase yesterday but did not end up voting for Babyhell in the end but mentioned he would have to secure the lynch today. Mentioned the possibility of having an "inept" scum team of himself and coju (when Zhao just mentioned that he had a theory?) and questioned if gorny's aggression should be a point of focus but is now also MIA.
Click to expand...
That's not quite what I said. I thought it might be useful to see if anyone would vote to lock, which might give me some info.

I had considered voting the 5th vote, waiting to see what happened and then possibly unvote if there was no lock. I didn't say that second part previously, but I was thinking about it. I was also unsure if it would be poor form to vote with the intention of unvoting, but I should have pmed @dlover about that instead of not trying it.

I haven't posted much in the current day cycle, but that is partially due to not having meaningful reads/leads and also due to being busy IRL.
 
Skjolde said:
For this to happen, they would have needed to be online and ready vote. Not that it isn't plausible, I must just stress how close we actually were to a no lynch. 15 mins left and you placed the lynching vote. That is pretty ice cold if there is NO scum voting for BH and with 15 mins left they are still waiting.

It is completely plausible. But I think we can find at least one scum amongst the 5 voters. That's my gut feeling for now at least.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't both coju and snickersnack say they would have voted if I hadn't, to prevent a no lynch?
 
Skjolde said:
I don't know. Maybe I worded it strongly, but I could have seen it happen.
Maybe I should have said something preemptive pulling the brakes.

But I also stand by the rest that I wrote, if you would like to address that.
Click to expand...

I think the rest of what you said is fine, you are allowed to have your suspicions, and not be suspicious of Gorny. He is not the highest on my list either way. Which leads me to this:

Gorny said:
2 things:

@ccoju nice of you to quote only part of my post. You cleverly left out the part where I said that I'm not inviting out possible PR to come forward.

@Pyrotechnician :

Your post concerning all players with varying levels of scummy activity and we are all sus...

Would be a perfect WIFOM post for a scum to hide behind
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight Gorny, or should I say Mr. Pitbull. If you are looking for me to commit to who I find the most suspicious and would like to vote for I'd look to the bottom half of my list:

Snickersnack
Zhao Yue
coju

I was trying to see what kind of reactions my list would draw and go from there.
 
Here it is, granted they were considering it, but the opportunity was there.

coju said:
Perhaps, but, as much as I disagreed with the lynch-ee. I had thought about voting to secure the lynch.
Click to expand...

snickersnack said:
Despite the statistical reasons for doing so, I'm not 100% on board with always having a D1 lynch. However, I also considered making my vote the 5th, primarily to see if anyone would vote for a lock (unlikely).
Click to expand...
 
snickersnack said:
I don't know if you're vanilla either. What's missing here?
Click to expand...
Gorny said:
Valid point.

If you honestly don't know if i am vanilla, then that town confirms you in my book and the scum pool drops to 6 (Baby, Coju, Pyro, zhao, Skjolde, D2DC) as far as I am concerned.
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I was never satisfied with this 'answer.'

I pointed out an obvious fact that anyone should recognize, and it gets me town cred. What? Does anyone else think that makes sense? It seems very sus to me. With all of the cloak and mirrors and secret divinations, is anyone else thinking the same?

I'm not experienced enough to tell whether @Gorny is doing his own WIFOM or not, but I was thinking yesterday that a town @Gorny is too experienced to read as scum so much, but then I started thinking that he may see brazenness as a challenge. Is scum @Gorny experienced enough to thread that needle?
 
snickersnack said:
That's not quite what I said. I thought it might be useful to see if anyone would vote to lock, which might give me some info.

I had considered voting the 5th vote, waiting to see what happened and then possibly unvote if there was no lock. I didn't say that second part previously, but I was thinking about it. I was also unsure if it would be poor form to vote with the intention of unvoting, but I should have pmed @dlover about that instead of not trying it.

I haven't posted much in the current day cycle, but that is partially due to not having meaningful reads/leads and also due to being busy IRL.
Click to expand...
I see now going back to it that you said you would vote to see if anyone would lock. Which honestly doesn't make it much better....

As far as voting and then unvoting, mafia have done that at the last minute when it was their partner. You could have done it, and there is no bad form to it, but it would have brought you a ton of questions today, and would have likely turned all attention to you for this day phase.

Secondly, whether or not someone is the vote to lynch or vote to lock doesn't really make much difference unless the time between the vote to lynch and vote to lock is extremely short.
 
I had to look up WIFOM and that Princess Bride scene ... "Where is the poison?" lol
 
Pyrotechnician said:
Snickersnack
Zhao Yue
coju

I was trying to see what kind of reactions my list would draw and go from there.
Click to expand...
Earlier, I was reluctant to agree with @coju about @Gorny because I was a bit worried about reading scummy. (Does that "read" as scummy? :rolleyes: ) I was also a bit worried that post #446 would look a bit scummy, but I decided that I'd never post anything if I was always worried about that, so I posted it anyway.

If your suspicions of me are based mainly on that post, well the damage is done I suppose. This:
snickersnack said:
It could look like @coju and I are (inept) scum. My relative inexperience will surely lead me to some hamfisted moves from time to time, but I think it's pretty unlikely that @coju would go along with something as transparent as that.


Broader question for more experienced players: should @Gorny's D1 fervor be taken as a reason for suspicion? I know that an unwavering focus (ala a 'pitbull'*) can and will go awry sometimes, but that could also be easy cover.
Click to expand...
can read as scummy. That's entirely my fault. But, I did notice that no one responded to my question, at least not directly, and it's still a question in my mind.
 
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