When do Whirlwind Barbarians become effective?

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Bodhisattva

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When do Whirlwind Barbarians become effective?

I need some advice from you older, wiser Barbarians.

Firstly, I play on Nightmare difficulty, set to 8 players. I play with an Assassin and a Sorceress. We're all level 55. Now, onto my problems:

I've seen a few videos of Whirlwind Barbarians flying through large groups of mobs, killing many and leeching both mana and life to full continuously as they wreak havoc. My goal was to achieve the same, but it seems like I'm not doing a terribly good job of it. I've been trying to balance out my mana and life leeching, but I barely maintain enough mana to whirlwind frequently - many times i simply run out of mana, and am stuck there whacking enemies with Concentrate or Double Swing to regain mana. However, only with the sheer amount of hits Whirlwind lands am I able to maintain my health via leeching. Thus, as soon as I run out of mana for Whirlwinds, I quickly start to die.

Thus, I've tried to import more mana-leech gear into my equipment, and I'd thought I'd had it covered, but i still seem fairly impotent compared to my friend who is an equal-leveled assassin, with gear comparatively on-par with my own. She does a lot more damage, and I am not more survivable than she is. Not to mention she has a lot more utility with her elemental attacks, freezing targets in a large area, and being able to handle physical-resistant opponents without batting an eyelash (I plan to have a point in Berzerk, but you get the point).

As I've brought in more mana leeching gear, I'm able to Whirlwind continuously only when the enemy group is very large in size - giving me 5-10 targets or more to Whirlwind through. What is shocking me the most, however.. is that I seem to do terrible damage overall to enemies, while my Assassin friend rips through groups one-by-one in FAR less time. The whirlwinds just don't seem to be pumping out a lot of damage, and I'm wondering what I can do about that. I'd like to upgrade my two swords, but well, I need the runes and whatnot to do that. Is that what is lacking the most? Damage? How much better will my life/mana leeching if I upgrade my weapons? will I notice a huge difference?

My current skills, below. I'm working on getting my whirlwind as potent as possible as soon as possible, as I am hoping it'll pull it's weight sooner than later. It's been an exercise in frustration lately. After I max out Whirlwind and Mastery, I was pondering maxing Battle orders, and then Shout.

Combat Skills
16 Whirlwind
1 Double Swing
1 Concentrate
1 Leap Attack
1 Leap
1 Bash
1 Stun

Combat Masteries
1 Natural Resistance
1 Sword Mastery
5 Iron Skin
1 Stamina
1 Speed

War Cries
2 Battle Orders
1 Battle Cry
1 War Cry
1 Shout
1 Howl


My equipment is as follows. I've passed up some semi-decent armor pieces with better resists on them in order to keep Sigon's 2 piece bonus, which is a hefty 10% life leech, and the pieces do give some pretty good bonuses, such as the current +400 attack rating.

Helm: Sigon's Visor (30 Mana, 400AR)
Body: Sigon's Shelter (170 defense, 30% LR, 20 damage reflect

Helm + Body = 10% Life Leech per hit

Right Hand: Cruel Song Tulwar (22-44 damage, 57AR, 1-7 fire, 7% Mana Leech)
Left Hand: Raven Cleaver (11-31 damage, 59 AR, 10% Attack Speed, 2-12 cold, 5% Mana Leech)

Amulet: Beast Beads (+2 str 33% LR, 25% PR, 2% Life Leech, 3% Mana Leech)
Belt: Iratha's Cord (10 Dexterity, +5 minimum damage)
Gloves: Grim Claw Demonhide (15AR, 9% LR, 16% PR, replenish life 5, 3% Mana Leech)
Ring: Gold Ring of the Leech (95AR, 4% Life Leech)
Ring: Blood Spiral (6% FR, 8% CR, 5 Mana, 3% Mana Leech)
Boots: Vidala's Fetlocks (150 Stamina, 30% speed, 8% all resists)

Charms total out to the following bonuses:
+11 Mana
1-24 Lightning
1-8 Lightning
1-7 Lightning
25 Poison
2-4 Fire
23% LR
16% CR

Whirlwind Damage: 118-224, 166-313
Attack rating: 2005
Life: 752 (1039 with BO)
Mana: 104 (144 with BO)
Stamina: 577

Str: 108
Dex: 49
Vitality: 170
Energy: 10

Hopefully all of that is enough to help you see what I need to do to become a true Whirlwind Barbarian. I'd really appreciate the help, guys.
 
Tulwars are extremely slow and they have miserable range. You need faster, farther-reaching weapons. Get rid of Vidala's and use Goblin Toe. Faster weapons and slower boots means more hits and more leech, without the need for 50% life and mana leech. What's your chance to hit monsters? It should be above 80%.

Apparently barbs have some problems with killing in 8 person games. I think that can be mostly overcome with good gear.

You shouldn't have put those points in Shout yet. Finish WW and start working on Mastery, then max BO. If you're dying a lot, put a few points in BO first.
 
I see, so is the short range causing it to not hit enough targets, thus not getting the most out of my mana-leeching? Not to mention being slow.

What weapons should I aim for in terms of range? is 20-40ish damage enough for a level 50 WW barb in Nightmare, or should I really try to upgrade them for more damage soon?
 
Look for weapons with a range of 3 or greater. Sometimes 2 is ok too. It is not only the range, but also the fact that you move too fast past the monsters while swinging your weapons too slowly. That is the biggest factor. Goblin Toe boots are easy to find, they don't give Faster Run/Walk, and give 25% Crushing Blow, which will increase your killing speed.

That damage range is absolutely terrible for your location in the game.

I assume you mean "change" weapons, not upgrade them, because you would be wasting your runes on those things. Look over the Unique and Runeword swords on Arreat Summit and see what would serve you well from there. Just remember that they need to end up with -35 speed, as the last breakpoint for WW in your case would be -34. Arreat Summit will tell you the range and base speed of each sword, so you can calculate which will reach that breakpoint by themselves, or socketed with a Shael or 15% IAS jewel. Also have a look at xpumafangx's list of weapons that reach the last WW breakpoint in the Barbarian guide thread. It will explain what I just said at greater length.

www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items
 
The problem is that this is over TCP/IP, not on the Realms or whatnot. I only have what drops to choose from, unfortunately. At least, that is what I understand.

If that damage range is terrible, then that would explain why I'm having so much trouble. I'd really love higher damage weapons, it's just that these are the best that have dropped for me so far.

*sighs* I don't know what to do.

I'm also a bit confused about Breakpoints, but I'm going to research up on that. It's rather complicated, and I just recently got back into Diablo 2 after about a 4 year hiatus. I'm like a babe fresh from the womb, here. *mutters*
 
I understand that you can make relatively powerful swords with Runewords, but define "cheap". As far as I understand, I'm going to have to farm Nightmare acts 4-5 quite a while before I can make, say.. Kings Grace.
 
Try Black and steel a try. Although you can't make Black in swords, having that crushing blow will help you a lot. If you can't put out a lot of raw damage, then crushing blow is your best friend. Need runes? Visit the countess for a few times
:) Although, you'll still be severly underpowered. Hit up Meph a few times for some better weapons.
 
Barbs aren't the best chars to start with because they are very item-dependent. Now you're stuck until you get some better swords. You can MF NM for a while and also do some NM Countess runs for runes.

Also, Vidala's boots don't give 8% resist all unless paired with another set piece, and I don't see you wearing another.

Read the WW info several times and play the game. It will eventually sink in.

Use the Edit button to add something to your post within an hour instead of making a new post.

Edit: Since you're playing with two friends, do cooperative MF runs. You'll all gain items faster that way.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I understand that you can make relatively powerful swords with Runewords, but define "cheap". As far as I understand, I'm going to have to farm Nightmare acts 4-5 quite a while before I can make, say.. Kings Grace.
Click to expand...

Cheap like "honor" Amn + El + Ith + Tir + Sol

+160% Enhanced Damage
+9 To Minimum Damage
+9 To Maximum Damage
25% Deadly Strike
+250 To Attack Rating
+1 to All Skills
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
Replenish Life +10
+10 To Strength
+1 To Light Radius
+2 To Mana After Each Kill

Don't "Farm". Upgrade all the runes you find. You probably already have el ith tir somewhere,amn is not too hard to drop ,as for sol,hf might do the trick. In any case, keep and upgrade. Untwinked play has these things.
 
oath for me is the best cheapest runeword to get together as if ur ladder it is damn cheap to trade for and is one hell of a weapon, nice dmg, indestructable, and cheap as i stated.

but kingdryland the problem with the rw u stated it has no increased attack speed Crescent moon would be even more viable than this in a pb.
 
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