Warriors vs Mages for Poison Build?

[slam1]

Warriors vs Mages for Poison Build?

The template for this build seems to be to max skeleton warriors. I'm not sure why as if you're using a poison skill, you'll also be using lower resist and that does nothing for warriors. If you were to go with mages instead, their attacks would also benefit from lower resist. Why do I never see this being done or suggested?

 

[Kyo]

The template for this build seems to be to max skeleton warriors. I'm not sure why as if you're using a poison skill, you'll also be using lower resist and that does nothing for warriors. If you were to go with mages instead, their attacks would also benefit from lower resist. Why do I never see this being done or suggested?

Warriors vs Mages ?

There is no comparison. Skeleton Warrirors sole purpose is to protect you giving you time and space survive and compliement them by using Skills and curses from afar. They do relatively good damage now but they also tank fairely well now too.

If you replaced them with mages you will find the mages dun have the same durability and would most likely die without any good tanks or meat shields relateively quickly. They also tend just stand around stationary compared to their warrior counterparts that would slaughter anything that gets in your way or tries to get near you.

LR would benefit the mages but for hell at least it is good to have physical, and 1 or 2 elemental offensives to fall back on.

 

[EuroJamie]

Also, Poison Mages would reset any poison damage coming from your attacks, replacing it with their relatively puny damage.

 

[Necrochild313]

Generally this question is asked because people don't know whether to choose LR or amp.

I choose both, strategically (a property of the necro in which to be effective you have to do more than just CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK)

A good part of the skelly/poison hybrid is that you can take out two crowds at once. Your skeletons will tank a crowd, amp then, and lower resist another crowd (while attracting a monster in the middle) and nova them (amp and CE both crowds after nova'd the second). You'll be pleased with the results.

Of course, if you are both (yourself and your minions) taking the same crowd, I always Lower Resist first, then Nova (iirc LR only needs to be active when the nova hits, the damage/resists is determined then), and THEN amplify damage for the warriors, and as the monsters drop Corpse explosion. This isn't as time-lengthy as it sounds.

 

[gvandale]

Of course, if you are both (yourself and your minions) taking the same crowd, I always Lower Resist first, then Nova (iirc LR only needs to be active when the nova hits, the damage/resists is determined then), and THEN amplify damage for the warriors, and as the monsters drop Corpse explosion. This isn't as time-lengthy as it sounds.

that's the crucial part right there.

LR / PN immediately, then hit em with a quick AMP to let your skel's finish off what your PN is working down. Once you see one drop, blast off CE's like a MOFO.

g

 

[Opacus-Pontifex]

Hm, not really all that bad of an idea.... Pure poison all the way... should be possible if you have a kickass merc... could end up being a very frustrating build though :grrr:

 

[rickcarson]

The template for this build seems to be to max skeleton warriors. I'm not sure why as if you're using a poison skill, you'll also be using lower resist and that does nothing for warriors. If you were to go with mages instead, their attacks would also benefit from lower resist. Why do I never see this being done or suggested?

This is one of the Mage oriented builds I am currently experimenting with.
3 Skeletons (or more depending on your +skills) + 1 Gumby + 1 Merc + 1+N Revives (where N is your plus to skills) is plenty to form a defensive line to keep your Mages safe. With a measly +4 skills that is ten defensive linesmen. With +5 skills its 12.

At low levels 2, 3 or 4 defenders is plenty.

 

[Necrochild313]

Hm, not really all that bad of an idea.... Pure poison all the way... should be possible if you have a kickass merc... could end up being a very frustrating build though :grrr:

I just rushed myself and some others through hell in a half hour with a pure poison build, no merc, and 1 point into revives.

 

[slam1]

thanks everyone, the warriors make a lot of sense now. also, that is very useful to know that LR only has to be in effect when casting nova then once the monsters are poisoned, you can amp them to aid your skeletons and they will still receive the poison damage boost that LR was providing

 

[royalesse]

going against the grain... if you really wanted to make pure mages work you could go max mages and a handful of revives and you're golden. Of course, there's more flexibility in what Necrochild suggested... this is just the lazy curser way out.

Lastly... On the Dracoy & Co statistics guide... did anyone else notice the dex damage bonus on daggers? Anyone bored enough to try a DexNecro... Dexcro?... At any rate a Poison dagger Dexcro sounds pretty cool... also the fact that with full Trangs you can walk (or more accurately float) at full block at the same speed you could run at. The AR & Defense bonuses from the extra Dex doesn't hurt either.

Just a thought... :scratch:

P.S. you could also find a use for that dang Venom rune word if you didn't want to optimize the poison damage.

 

[darcho420]

When using mages, simpyl use bone wall as a meat sheild. A couple bone walls with over 3k life each arent too shabby. It will protect you and your mages, and the only attacks that can go through the wall are magic attacks. With about 11 skeleton mages, a wall to protect them, lower resists, and your psn nova you should be able to dish out a lot of dmg and stay relitively safe at the same time.

 

[rickcarson]

When using mages, simpyl use bone wall as a meat sheild. A couple bone walls with over 3k life each arent too shabby. It will protect you and your mages, and the only attacks that can go through the wall are magic attacks. With about 11 skeleton mages, a wall to protect them, lower resists, and your psn nova you should be able to dish out a lot of dmg and stay relitively safe at the same time.

I found that with my Mages and Bone Walls they were like a one way damage filter. Damage would go through, but not come back.

I didn't put many points into BWall, because I had plenty of mana (even with base energy).

I think BPrison would be better than BWall for this though.

 

[darcho420]

perhaps, but i use marrow walks, and hence the marrow walk "bug." My bone wall works fine, all my dmg goes through and only magic attacks come back at me...

I only have about 2 points in bone wall, and it is lvl 14 with 3k life.... not bad for very little investment.

 

[Kendu]

When using mages, simpyl use bone wall as a meat sheild. A couple bone walls with over 3k life each arent too shabby. It will protect you and your mages, and the only attacks that can go through the wall are magic attacks. With about 11 skeleton mages, a wall to protect them, lower resists, and your psn nova you should be able to dish out a lot of dmg and stay relitively safe at the same time.

For the Poison/Mage Hybrid you don't have to use bonewall, you can use revives, skeles, Gumby, and merc to do the tanking while your poison nova/mages do the killing. Even with 1 point into raise skele, gumby and revive you can get an effective defense from them with the plus to skills your sure to have. Parts of this are dicussed in this thread: http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?p=2331546#post2331546

 

[rickcarson]

For the Poison/Mage Hybrid you don't have to use bonewall, you can use revives, skeles, Gumby, and merc to do the tanking while your poison nova/mages do the killing. Even with 1 point into raise skele, gumby and revive you can get an effective defense from them with the plus to skills your sure to have. Parts of this are dicussed in this thread: http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?p=2331546#post2331546

Yes but... I'm finding by the end of Act 3 NM that my defensive line is getting stomped on. I've got max Skeleton Mastery (its about 29-30 I think ) and if I can't find decent revives I have a problem.

Of course, if I'm using all my mana to keep recycling the revives, that means I'm not doing Poison Novas...

Having Maxed Poison Nova (it does 800-900 damage) and Skeleton Mastery... I'm really wondering what next? As I progress the monsters are getting tougher faster than the synergies to PN are increasing its damage, and even in single player NM it takes a lot of PNs to take down bosses and their minions or champions.

I've only got one more skill I can max before getting into Hell... and the way things are looking thats going to be a problem.

 

[rickcarson]

I'm finding by the end of Act 3 NM that my defensive line is getting stomped on. I've got max Skeleton Mastery (its about 29-30 I think ) and if I can't find decent revives I have a problem.

Of course, if I'm using all my mana to keep recycling the revives, that means I'm not doing Poison Novas...

Having Maxed Poison Nova (it does 800-900 damage) and Skeleton Mastery... I'm really wondering what next? As I progress the monsters are getting tougher faster than the synergies to PN are increasing its damage, and even in single player NM it takes a lot of PNs to take down bosses and their minions or champions.

I've only got one more skill I can max before getting into Hell... and the way things are looking thats going to be a problem.

Looks like I spoke too soon.

Acts 4 and 5 have been much easier than Act 3.

Mephisto and the Durance were easier than I expected. I was down to about 3 Mages, but Gumby stepped up and distracted him while the Mages (and PNova) did their thing)

Partly I think its easier because I've changed my tactics. (Casting LR early and often) And partly because I've decided to increase the amount of mana that I'm tossing around.

I found that a lot of the late Act 3 Monsters were taking 3 PNovas to kill, or 1 LR and 2 PNovas, which is about the same expenditure of mana. However, now when I cast LR it also increases the Mages damage, so it might actually only take 1 LR and 1 PN. I'm bouncing around the hot keys a lot more than I normally do with a Necromancer.

The Chaos Sanctuary was a push over (compared to say how a Skelimancer would have fared). But Big D had the bad form to keep wiping out my Mages. Fortunately my Revives kept him entertained, so I ended up killing him in (relative) safety with PNova.

I've also found that it is much much easier to rebuild my army with a PNova/Summons hybrid, since I can pop out of an Act 1 WP, find the nearest fallen pack and hurk out a PNova and viola! Instant pile of corpses.

It might be possible to include an Act 3 Cold Merc (IMHO the best all round Merc bar none) in this build. I'd left them out of my Summoner builds after the first time I got to Hell with one and found that while its great for killing the first couple of monsters, it was turning almost all of them to ice, making it *extremely* difficult to get the ball rolling. Holy Freeze mercs don't even come close to this guy in the corpse shattering game.

I've just hit 56 and muled my 1.10 Trangs Gloves onto the char, so that should improve things a bit as well. If I can get halfway through Act 5 NM without them, it bodes fairly well for the builds viability. (Till Hell anyway, and then all bets are off)

 

[rickcarson]

And the mages have it

So I've just completed Act 5 NM. Pretty much a cake walk the whole way.

The nice thing is that this build can actually gather an army very quickly, even in Hell, as I've found after clearing the pits. Which makes a nice change, I've had a lot of other builds stomp the carp out of NM, only to have massive problems as soon as they hit Hell.

With this build it would be possible to graduate straight to Hell, since most of your damage is not Attack Rating dependent (and hence not level dependent).

Lvl 62 - Str 80, Dex 30, Vitality 200, Energy 100, 50 unspent points. 654 Hp, 300+ mana

Skills:
Max Skeleton Mastery (29)
1 pt Revive, 1 pt Summon Resist (6 after + skills)
Working on Maxing Skeletal Mage (currently 18 including bonuses)
Max Poison Nova (26)
A few extra points in Poison Explosion
No points in curses
Lvl 7 Lower Resist, lvl 7 Decrepify (from gear - I don't use decrepify at all)

Gear:
Peasant Crown
Ethereal Skin of the Vipermagi (which NM Meph was kind enough to drop)
White (with +2 LR)
+2 Summons Fetish socketed with 2 P Diamonds
Rare Plated Belt with + life and cold resist (it was better in all respects than the Hsaru's I had on previously)
Rare rings and amulet
1.10 Trangs gloves (was using Chance Guards)
A bunch of bad charms, mostly +resists or +life or +mana

So the gear isn't exactly uber.

Since this guy can kill in Hell (even with no +skills charms, and less than stellar gear), I conclude that the experiment with Mages and Poison Nova is in fact a success.

 

[Necrochild313]

Lastly... On the Dracoy & Co statistics guide... did anyone else notice the dex damage bonus on daggers? Anyone bored enough to try a DexNecro... Dexcro?... At any rate a Poison dagger Dexcro sounds pretty cool... also the fact that with full Trangs you can walk (or more accurately float) at full block at the same speed you could run at. The AR & Defense bonuses from the extra Dex doesn't hurt either.

That sounds like fun, I may want to look into it....

*whips out his fleshripper*