Map design discussion

[SoupGuy]

Map design discussion

Howdy ya'll, I'm new so forgive me if this is in the wrong forum..

I'm going through and studying map design in Action RPGs to see what works and what does not, and to get some ideas.

I've always loved Diablo 2, and going through the maps, I've noticed how the designs change over the acts, and difficulties even.
Act I outdoor areas are generally square with kinked edges and something big in the middle, whereas act Vs are long, wide, and crossed with lines. I've always loved Act II, which has a similar shape to Act I's square maps, but with a wall down the middle with stairs somewhere along it.

What are your favourite areas, and why? Any specific areas I should check out, any areas that have interesting properties?

Thanks!
Soup

 

[Swamigoon]

Re: Map design discussion

I like the variety. There is no one act or area that I like or dislike most.

 

[rogufka]

Re: Map design discussion

Act 3 map, enuff said.

 

[SoupGuy]

Re: Map design discussion

I have always liked the 'interior' maps in D2, such as Catacombs, WSK, Act5 Ice Cave, Durance, etc. The mixture of tight corridors & large rooms appeals to me, as it sets up interesting tactical points. You can use the 'chokes' to limit the number of monsters that can come at you for more single-target attack or directional spells, or lure mobs into the larger areas for the more area-effect attacks/spells. As such, I tend to dislike the 'all or nothing' type maps, such as Act5 outdoor areas & Maggot Lair/Arcane Sactuary.

It really depends on the build I am playing, but as I said, the ones I prefer have the options of utilizing either aspect without being forced to deal with the draw-backs of either type... but then, that is one of the things I really like about D2. It mixes it up a good bit, so there isn't an overflow of just one map-type, which would get pretty boring rather quickly.

out of curiosity, why are you interested? Planning on designing a game?

Yeah I really disliked the Maggot Lair, being in a party as a minion necro really sucked Although, popping bugs can be fun.
The first area in Act III also was a bit of pain, the long river with dead-ends and sparse crossings made in annoying to play.
I was just looking at the Durance of Hate and how it changed over difficulties. Man, that thing gets huge!

The 'mixture of tight corridors & large rooms' is quite a good formula for the reason you said, and it creates some good pacing too.
The way D2 mixes up the map-types does offer enough variety, it seemed to work well. Each area has a clear design and is unconfussed, I think this is important.

I'm a Level Designer working on Path of Exile and Diablo 2 is a very strong influence. We use a similar random-generation method and I really enjoyed D2 so much, I'm trying to see what's in the maps that made them good.

Thanks!
Joel

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Re: Map design discussion

I really do not like the Act 3 jungle maps, because the areas are not as distinct as elsewhere: you move from one area to the next almost without realising it. Also, as the areas are so large and long, it takes forever to find the waypoints, so it sucks if you have to quit the game between the jungle areas. It's easier and faster if you can go straight to Lower Kurast in one go.

I'm not a big fan of the Act 5 open areas, either. They are enormous and too wide and generally just annoying, because of the fortresses between the more open areas.

I don't have any favourite maps/areas per se, but perhaps the Arcane Sanctuary is one of the nicest. I like the fact that there are four clear directions where to proceed from the waypoint. The fairly narrow spaces are nice, so you don't get mobbed so easily. I don't like all that much of the teleport things in there, but otherwise AS is cool. Plus I for some reason enjoy immensly the architecture of the place, as there are those floors and pillars that are optical illusions. :grin:

 

[SoupGuy]

Re: Map design discussion

I don't have any favourite maps/areas per se, but perhaps the Arcane Sanctuary is one of the nicest. I like the fact that there are four clear directions where to proceed from the waypoint. The fairly narrow spaces are nice, so you don't get mobbed so easily. I don't like all that much of the teleport things in there, but otherwise AS is cool. Plus I for some reason enjoy immensly the architecture of the place, as there are those floors and pillars that are optical illusions. :grin:

The Arcane sanctuary is indeed quite nice, the time spent in this area can be quite long, but I feel it's quite fair, given that you have the choice in which direction to go (I swear that the game generates the 4 directions as you explore, generating the very last direction left to explore as the correct one...).
The teleporting bits are a bit strange indeed. And the problem of being attacked with ranged attacks from other walkways is difficult, but it is an area that forces some interesting decisions and tactics, and probably works for some classes/builds better than others.

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: Map design discussion

I really do not like the Act 3 jungle maps, because the areas are not as distinct as elsewhere: you move from one area to the next almost without realising it.

I actually find the jungle portion of Act 3 fascinating for just that reason. All of the other acts are pretty straightforward once you've played through them a couple times. The jungle still manages to throw me a curveball every so often, even after YEARS of playing. There's no right angles (like a real jungle), unlike the other outdoor areas with the arbitrary straight walls marking boundaries. It's much more organic with some monsters actually being able to retreat back into the trees on the side.

I imagine it must have taken some extra coding to get the jungle levels to randomly generate properly.

Also, I agree with zemaj. D2 does an excellent job of mixing up terrain - it forces you constantly change up your tactics and it keeps things fresh.

 

[Gillsing]

Re: Map design discussion

I too like the jungle maps of Act 3. Always fun to explore new areas, and those jungles usually offer the most surprises. I also like the ice caves of Act 5. I really wish that the Act I areas had been designed more like the ice caves, but with forests and rocks instead of ice walls. Because having those low stone walls working as borders never made much sense to me.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

Re: Map design discussion

I swear that the game generates the 4 directions as you explore, generating the very last direction left to explore as the correct one....

I thought so too, for a long time! Every single time the Summoner was in the last direction, so I was sure it was made that way. But recently it has changed, although for some reason the Summoner is never in the first direction I take, but quite often in second or third.

About the jungles... maybe I just haven't been playing enough yet to get bored with the other maps and find the jungles intriguing. For me they are plain and simply annoying.
Plus, I've had some trouble finding the fetish village where the Blade is, so I have been forced to run up and down, around and over the jungle forever, which is nervewracking.
In one game I actually did not find it, or was it so that I couldn't find the monster who drops the Blade, can't really remember...

This reminds me that in a another game there was a problem with one of the first desert maps. The area was a dead end, when it shouldn't have been. There was no way out of there, no matter how many times I went around it. It was strange... :scratchhead:

But all in all, it's nice there is so much variety in the maps and areas, so there's something for everyone. :yes: